Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Well I’m not from here, the country even, but since I’ve moved here any time I’ve heard this “Toronto people think that Toronto is the centre of the universe” it is coming from non-Torontonians.

That's because it was invented and perpetuated by non-Torontonians.

Chadilaccc's entire story is a bunch of hogwash anecdotes that I (someone who's from and lived in the area for 2 decades) has run into maybe twice ever. The idea that all of Torontonians are like this is hilarious and just shows the anti-Toronto bullshit spewed by other Canadians. Torontonians don't know the existence of London? What a load of bull. I'm officially calling you out Chad. Hogwash.

And it's ironic because Western CFL fans are notoriously high horse-y (cough, riders fans) and holier-than-thou, looking down on Easter CFL fans and markets. Therefore it's hilarious to hear the notion that WE'RE the high-horse-y ones.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Well I’m not from here, the country even, but since I’ve moved here any time I’ve heard this “Toronto people think that Toronto is the centre of the universe” it is coming from non-Torontonians.

I guess there's a first time for everything. I suppose it is just a pervasive attitude. Obviously people from Toronto don't think Toronto is the centre of the universe, but they act like it is the only city in Canada that matters, and that their decisions, attractions, and image are paramount. Occaisionally differing to Montreal's cultural "superiority" and Vancouver's beauty, but little flexibility in the attitude other than that.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

That's because it was invented and perpetuated by non-Torontonians.

Chadilaccc's entire story is a bunch of hogwash anecdotes that I (someone who's from and lived in the area for 2 decades) has run into maybe twice ever. The idea that all of Torontonians are like this is hilarious and just shows the anti-Toronto bullshit spewed by other Canadians. Torontonians don't know the existence of London? What a load of bull. I'm officially calling you out Chad. Hogwash.

And it's ironic because Western CFL fans are notoriously high horse-y (cough, riders fans) and holier-than-thou, looking down on Easter CFL fans and markets. Therefore it's hilarious to hear the notion that WE'RE the high-horse-y ones.

Hogwash? Well that's fine, because I'm sure you know how little your opinion of me means to me. Sorry that I can't change the experiences I've had, that doesn't mean that I'm not going to share them. Perhaps it's just a pervasive ignorance in my generation, I never said all Torontonians do it, I said I knew a couple people who didn't know that there was a London 2 hours away from where they grew up. Many people I know who grew up in Toronto thought of anywhere outside of the GTA in Ontario as the boons and hardly worth a second thought, unless it was a beach or something. That is probably just a product of the ridiculous generation I've been forced to grow up in though, as I only had a few adult (30+ year old) friends in Toronto when I lived in the city.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Hogwash? Well that's fine, because I'm sure you know how little your opinion of me means to me. Sorry that I can't change the experiences I've had, that doesn't mean that I'm not going to share them.

Congrats, want a medal? Maybe other people should value the opinion of someone actually from here over a little-brother syndrome Calgarian poster. Share them all you want, just don't word it as fact because it isn't.

This just in, all Calgarians are Conservative homophobic anti-Quebec white people who listen to country music. That's right, all of them.

Source: A friend of mine has talked to a Calgarian once.

[Chadillaccc]

What? So you're putting words in my mouth and claiming I stated everything as matter-of-fact? When all I said was "a few people" and "widely pervasive attitude"

Grow up dude. What is your problem?



I lived in Toronto, I didn't just talk to someone about it. I grew up near Toronto as well, and spent a lot of my life there. You claimed to not have some holier than thou bullshit attitude, but yet all you're doing is sensationalizing this conversation and spinning words that I didn't say, into my comments.

[The Fisher Account]

Less jibber jabber and more pictures of stadiums being built. No one here wants to listen to you two knobs yak back and forth. Take it to PM already.

[Chadillaccc]

It seems Edmonton's new arena has passed one of its final hurdles!

Originally Posted by Shodan

Councillors bash critics as downtown levy passes

Gordon Kent
Edmonton Journal

Wednesday, September 18, 2013

Edmonton's downtown arena crossed one of its final hurdles Tuesday, but not before council members took critics of the scheme into the boards.

Councillors complained opponents misrepresented details of a community revitalization levy (CRL) that will use provincial and civic property taxes on downtown growth to pay for the arena and a dozen other "catalyst" projects...

[email protected]
© Edmonton Journal 2013

Copyright © 2013 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.
CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.

http://www2.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=be18cd6d-d7af-4aa6-ae8d-b2adffca4afe&sponsor=

[elly63]

Was just watching the Tim Hortons Field construction cam. It was a real beehive of activity there for a while today. Going up fast.

July 26/2013


August 15/2013


September 19/2013

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

The same can be said for most of their attitudes toward the CFL, especially on this forum. The east seems to not give a shit of the CFL, so why should the east be getting any preferential treatment at all?

I don't see the lack of interest in the CFL as anything to do with a "centre of the universe" attitude or being "American wannabe's".

I used to be a big CFL supporter in the 80s and 90s, but only watch the NFL now. Doesn't make me think I'm part of the centre of the universe or am an American wannabe. I probably watch more Canadian films and read more Canadian novels than most CFL fans on this forum - so it has nothing to do with the country.

Plus if Torontonians or the east really are American wannabe's, then the Leafs would be doing poorly in TV ratings and attendance since Americans couldn't give two craps about hockey.

People like what they like. It's as simple as that.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Berklon

People like what they like. It's as simple as that.

Ok, great, then you stop the NFL trolling, which you pick your spots and do on purpose, and I'll not mention American wannabees. Fair enough?

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I remember when a good 25-33% of the Canadian population regularly tuned into the Grey Cup; that would be around 9 to 12 million people in today's Canada. It truly was culturally dominant and a strong unifying force for the country. It still is, but a shadow of what it once was. No one back then would be caught dead watching US football and the CFL was celebrated coast to coast. There was even a Miss Grey Cup pageant if you can believe it. I do remember there being a Grey Cup parade in the host city every year, but don't remember there being one last year...

About 1 in 3 Canadians are still watching. I think 13 million Canadians watched some part of the Grey Cup, and the peak audience was about 6 million. The crony ridden Toronto media has been working very hard for years to try to promote the NFL for their friend Ted Rogers, and at talk down the CFL, but their incessant pro NFL spin doesn't reflect what people are actually watching. Pushing the Grey Cup onto cable has had some impact, but not a huge one.
http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=410346

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Unfortunately not - based on figures from BBM Canada

http://www.bbm.ca/en/weekly-top-30-tv-programs

Last 4 years SB vs Grey Cup

6.44 million vs 5.46 million
7.28 million vs 4.38 million
6.53 million vs 4.94 million
6.01 million vs 5.08 million

You haven't included the RDS numbers. Those numbers are for the English language GC broadcast only.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Berklon

I don't see the lack of interest in the CFL as anything to do with a "centre of the universe" attitude or being "American wannabe's".

I used to be a big CFL supporter in the 80s and 90s, but only watch the NFL now. Doesn't make me think I'm part of the centre of the universe or am an American wannabe. I probably watch more Canadian films and read more Canadian novels than most CFL fans on this forum - so it has nothing to do with the country.

Plus if Torontonians or the east really are American wannabe's, then the Leafs would be doing poorly in TV ratings and attendance since Americans couldn't give two craps about hockey.

People like what they like. It's as simple as that.

Yes and no... It's still considered as one of the "Big 4" in the states, whether its popularity in some areas of the US is suspect or not. Further, the NHL is quite strong in the Northeasten US markets (e.g. New York, Chicago, Boston, Philly, etc), which is part of it right? Playing large international cities rather than smaller domestic ones?

But just to put things into perspective for the people who compare production values of the CFL to NFL... The NFL media contracts are worth something in the order of $3 BILLION annually ($5 billion annually next year)... On a per team basis, the CFL would need $750 million or per capita $300 million. The NHL by comparison gets approx $150 mill in Canada and $200 mill in the US for media contracts. NFL teams also blackmail cities and states into giving substantial funding for new stadiums, while in Canada, that process generally isn't tolerated. Katz tried that in Edmonton and he had back off and apologize due to public outcry/pressure.

There is something distinctly disingenuous about expecting the CFL to compete with that standard rather than accept it for what it is and celebrate it as something that is distinctly Canadian and a part of our cultural and sporting heritage. The NHL has done alright because the media and corporations have always decided to support it, there was never another bigger hockey league elsewhere for our corporations/media to fantasize about piggybacking off of like our media generally does for everything else, the CFL on the other hand, since the 80s, has survived almost in spite of a lack of media/corporate support (granted, the CFL did shoot itself in the foot a few times).

It's kind of your classic David and Goliath story, except some of David's people are cheering for Goliath.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I remember when a good 25-33% of the Canadian population regularly tuned into the Grey Cup; that would be around 9 to 12 million people in today's Canada.

Even more people watch the Grey Cup now. The figures that were posted were the number of people who watched every minute of the Grey Cup from start to finish. But the number of people who watched "some or all" of the Grey Cup was 13 million.

From TSN, regarding the 2012 Grey Cup:

Overall, more than 13 million Canadians – or more than one in three Canadians – tuned in to watch some or all of Sunday night's broadcast on TSN and RDS.

And regarding the number of viewers from the Greater Toronto Area:

In the Toronto Extended Market, more than 3.6 million viewers watched some of the 100th GREY CUP on TSN – close to half the population in this market.

Source: http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=410346

So the proportion of people living in the GTA who watched the Grey Cup was significantly greater than the proportion of Canadians who watched the Grey Cup. Thanks Toronto!


EDIT: I see someone has already pointed this out.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Nathan

There is something distinctly disingenuous about expecting the CFL to compete with that standard rather than accept it for what it is and celebrate it as something that is distinctly Canadian and a part of our cultural and sporting heritage. The NHL has done alright because the media and corporations have always decided to support it, there was never another bigger hockey league elsewhere for our corporations/media to fantasize about piggybacking off of like our media generally does for everything else, the CFL on the other hand, since the 80s, has survived almost in spite of a lack of media/corporate support (granted, the CFL did shoot itself in the foot a few times).

It's kind of your classic David and Goliath story, except some of David's people are cheering for Goliath.

Amen, praise Allah!

[isaidso]

The 8 million+ that watched in the early 80s were actual viewers who watched the whole thing, not people who tuned in briefly. It's more comparable to the 5-6 million who watch these days. If we're going to compare apples to apples, for the Grey Cup to be as strong today as it was before we'd be getting 12 million viewing the whole game and possibly 20-25 million watching all or part of it.

We just didn't track partial viewers back then so it's hard to make a comparison. I do remember the Grey Cup being something 'everyone' watched. It had an air to it much like the 2010 men's Olympic hockey gold did.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

.... any time I’ve heard this “Toronto people think that Toronto is the centre of the universe” it is coming from non-Torontonians.

In all fairness, is a Torontonian going to say that or view themselves in a negative light? That's like announcing to the world that you're arrogant.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by isaidso

The 8 million+ that watched in the early 80s were actual viewers who watched the whole thing, not people who tuned in briefly.

That's an empirical claim. If it is well-founded, then provide a source, please.

That said, the 13 million people who watched the 2012 Grey Cup represent those who watched "some or all" of the Grey Cup. Nowhere does it say that those who watched only "some" of the Grey Cup watched it no more than briefly. All we know is that they didn't watch all of it. That also includes those who watched most or almost all of the Grey Cup too.

I am a massive CFL fan, but I missed most of the first quarter of the 2012 Grey Cup (because I was stuck on the road), so I didn't watch all of the Grey Cup either, but I was a part of the national celebration.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

If your empirical claim has any foundation, then provide a credible source for it.

That's going to be hard to substantiate, tbh. I remember the methodology changing quite a few years ago with the results being greatly inflated numbers. That's the best I can do unless I spend the next week pouring through news articles for the past 20 years. Even that would likely not get me the information I seek. Perhaps someone from the CBC, TSN, etc. can clarify how methodology has changed? It definitely has though.

I distinctly remember reading articles describing the differences and how 5 million using the old formula suddenly became many millions more using the new formula.

The 8 million+ who watched in the 1980s weren't those who watched some or all of the Grey Cup so it's not comparable to the 13 million figure floating around on this thread. It's comparable to the 5-6 million figure and that comparison makes more sense because the Grey Cup isn't nearly the media event that it used to be.... not even close. People either have a very short memory or they weren't around back then.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Finally an aerial shot of Tim Horton's Field