Stadiums and Arenas of Canada - Page 170

ScreamingViking · #**3381** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 3:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

Down in Mtl and Tor, down for obvious reasons in Ham. Otherwise looking good

Do those figures include playoff games? Otherwise I'm having a hard time understanding that large of a change for Montreal, with a capacity of just over 25k at Percival Molson.

I am surprised Toronto is down so much.

Saskatchewan is really capitalizing on the additional seating. And good for Winnipeg fans for filling their new home given the season the team has had to date.

ScreamingViking · #**3382** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 3:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

I'm interested in the following: Which do you think will happen and your reasons why (to prevent dumbass answers):

1 David Braley will build a stadium
2 MLSE will expand BMO to house the Argos
3 The Rogers lease will run out in five years with nothing done
4 The Argos will move to a renovated stadium other than BMO ie York, Lamport, Varsity

I guess I should have added a fourth option (added above)

I still think 1 or 2 are close... maybe 1 more likely on second thought.

For Braley, his connections may be more likely to get him help with funding or partnerships with other groups that would invest, but it would probably be part of a larger development. I still don't understand why he didn't jump at the potential of the Pan Am York stadium.

MLSE would do it if there is a likelihood of profit, but also because they would not want to see a similar-sized competing facility built in the Toronto area. But Braley would still have to want to sell the team to them.

3 is unlikely simply because the Argos NEED to develop other options, and I think they're a viable team. And given Braley's history with the CFL there is little chance he'd let the team's options dissipate to nothing while he's still the owner.

4 could happen, though those sites present limitations. Perhaps Braley would look at them? (Varsity would be awesome, but is there enough space now and would UofT be cooperative? Lamport might be do-able, could York be adapted?)

elly63 · #**3383** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 4:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I still don't understand why he didn't jump at the potential of the Pan Am York stadium.

Conflict of interest? He was on the PanAM committee.

Nathan · #**3384** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 5:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Do those figures include playoff games? Otherwise I'm having a hard time understanding that large of a change for Montreal, with a capacity of just over 25k at Percival Molson.

I am surprised Toronto is down so much.

Saskatchewan is really capitalizing on the additional seating. And good for Winnipeg fans for filling their new home given the season the team has had to date.

The home variance is just the difference from the overall CFL average for this year (~27,370 thus far); nothing to do with previous years.

ScreamingViking · #**3385** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 6:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

Conflict of interest? He was on the PanAM committee.

He had to resign from the Pan Am board when he became a Senator because of board rules, which were probably instituted to avoid that very issue. This was a few months before the athletics got moved to York, a decision made in late summer of 2010.

But you're probably right and there would still have been a conflict of interest as a Senator and owner of a team that would benefit from the investment. I don't know what the Senate rules are around that but it would certainly draw questions... especially lately (not that they don't happen).

ScreamingViking · #**3386** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 6:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

The home variance is just the difference from the overall CFL average for this year (~27,370 thus far); nothing to do with previous years.

Ah, makes sense. My mistake.

isaidso · #**3387** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 4:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Do those figures include playoff games? Otherwise I'm having a hard time understanding that large of a change for Montreal, with a capacity of just over 25k at Percival Molson.

I am surprised Toronto is down so much.

Saskatchewan is really capitalizing on the additional seating. And good for Winnipeg fans for filling their new home given the season the team has had to date.

I compile attendance data each year and this is how the league has done since 2008:

Average Attendance by Year
2008: 28,914
2009: 28,464
2010: 27,146
2011: 27,786
2012: 28,193
2013: 27,366

The biggest drop since 2008 has been for Toronto. They went from crowds of 29,189 in 2008 to 21,301 this year. BC has seen the next steepest drop. They were at 34,083 in 2008, but only 27,619 this year.

We should get back past 28,000 for the league in 2014 as Hamilton moves into their new stadium. Playing in Guelph has skewed the overall numbers down by quite a bit.

The_Architect · #**3388** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 4:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

The biggest drop since 2008 has been for Toronto. They went from crowds of 29,189 in 2008 to 21,301 this year. BC has seen the next steepest drop. They were at 34,083 in 2008, but only 27,619 this year.

The period of extreme crappiness between 2007 and last year really did a number on the Argos fanbase.. At least the attendees.

I was hoping the Grey Cup win would bring it back, but that remains to be seen. Commercial-ball in the States is still high up here.

Acajack · #**3389** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 4:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Architect

The period of extreme crappiness between 2007 and last year really did a number on the Argos fanbase.. At least the attendees.

I was hoping the Grey Cup win would bring it back, but that remains to be seen. Commercial-ball in the States is still high up here.

What does this mean?

isaidso · #**3390** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 4:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

What does this mean?

I'm not sure either.

I really don't see Toronto returning to the fold until the population stops eternally latching on to what ever they deem cool from around the world and they start developing a strong sense of place. There aren't a lot of people who are actually from Toronto so they've never developed an attachment to Toronto's institutions or traditions. They don't even recognize the CFL as their own culture, but some fringe culture popular in the sticks.

The current generation is lost to the CFL so the Argonauts need to start with the kids. Teach them football's history, it's roots in the city, and create a relationship between them and Canadian football. That's the only way to mitigate against the message that US media teaches them: that football is American and something they need to replace their own culture with.

elly63 · #**3391** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 4:50 PM**

City of Ottawa @ottawacity 24h

The curving wood beams of the new Lansdowne veil are almost ready! The iconic structure goes up in October

The_Architect · #**3392** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 6:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

What does this mean?

That the NFL still seems to be more popular.

Acajack · #**3393** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 6:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Architect

That the NFL still seems to be more popular.

Gotcha

Nathan · #**3394** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 6:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Architect

That the NFL still seems to be more popular.

It's a weird situation though, since NFL can't touch CFL in terms of ratings (other than the Superbowl, which has a broadcast vs cable TV thing going on as well). The Argos-Riders game pulled in 1.069 mill viewers this last weekend.

It really seems to be like a shameful secret. All we hear about is how much more popular the NFL is in Toronto, how everyone exclusively talks about the NFL, etc... But behind closed doors, the ratings tell a different story.

Attendance at games is definitely an issue though.

FrankieFlowerpot · #**3395** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 7:47 PM**

Update on the Markham Arena

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2013/9/17/4741074/markham-arena-project-nhl-expansion-gta-centre

Quote:

The Markham Arena project might have a new lease on life, as GTA Sports & Entertainment announced a new proposal that would shift the financial framework of the venture into the private sector. GTA Sports announced via press release that GTA Centre, LP would be responsible for funding all costs towards the construction of the GTA Centre above a maximum amount of $162.5 million, which the City of Markham would facilitate through private development contributions.

This new option is being supported by two investment banking firms, Jeffries LLC and Canaccord Genuity, who have recently joined the GTA Centre group. The group states that this new proposal would make the project 100 percent privately funded.

The GTA Centre was originally being proposed under a financial framework that would need Markham to borrow $325 million. While the deal was originally approved by an 11-2 City Council vote in April, Jack Heath, the deputy mayor of Markham, reportedly put forward a motion to kill the project in August.

Heath told The Hockey News that without an NHL franchise coming to Markham, the concept of an arena project was pointless, via City News Toronto:

"When you add it all up, a second franchise for the GTA is not a priority," Heath told the Hockey News. "I have no interest in duplicating Copps Coliseum."

Whether this new proposal will keep the arena project alive remains to be seen. However, it's obvious that all involved are interested in an NHL franchise playing in the building.

Questions about the league's future plans to expand its membership have been circulating for months. The NHL currently has 30 franchises, with an uneven number of teams in its two conferences. On a logistical level, it appears as though they're moving towards having 32 franchises sooner than later.

Many have viewed Markham as a prime spot for expansion/relocation because of the broad scope of hockey fans in Toronto. Reports circulated earlier this offseason that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has recommended that the league's 30 owners consider opening up an expansion franchise to the Seattle market. As of Monday, a report surfaced that the NHL is keenly interested in the result of two review boards scheduled for this week in connection with the development of an arena in Seattle.

Whether the league is interested in Markham as a future home of an NHL franchise remains to be seen. Of course, in order to play hockey, you need to buy pads and to have an NHL franchise, you need an arena. GTA Sports & Entertainment appears to be preparing themselves for that potential opportunity.

The league has previously denied all reports indicating that they are looking to expand at this time.

WhipperSnapper · #**3396** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 7:47 PM**

Most Torontonians I know find the game of football incredibly boring yet know all the stats and jump for joy at the start of the NFL season. I think the number of teams including one not being in Toronto is an asset the Cfl can not compete with when it comes down to what football is best known for in this city.

Football defines American sports. Americans can't resist any excuse to over indulge on beer and junk. I think most too would lose the appeal of the game if they were honest with themselves. There's no rhythm. It's a slow ass game with plays that last no longer than a blink of an eye.

Financing structure is now in place for the GTA Centre. I think it actually might get built.

Acajack · #**3397** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 8:01 PM**

Out of curiosity, how is kids' football (city leagues or schools) doing in Toronto and in southern Ontario in general? Up, down or stable?

elly63 · #**3398** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 8:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

It's a weird situation though, since NFL can't touch CFL in terms of ratings (other than the Superbowl, which has a broadcast vs cable TV thing going on as well).

Wasn't last year the first year that the Super Bore out-rated the Grey Cup?

FrankieFlowerpot · #**3399** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 8:37 PM**

Unfortunately not - based on figures from BBM Canada

http://www.bbm.ca/en/weekly-top-30-tv-programs

Last 4 years SB vs Grey Cup

6.44 million vs 5.46 million
7.28 million vs 4.38 million
6.53 million vs 4.94 million
6.01 million vs 5.08 million

Chadillaccc · #**3400** Posted **Sep 17, 2013, 8:45 PM**

Wow, those are still great numbers! Far higher for the Grey Cup than I would have expected! Well that is nice to see