Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[GORDBO]

Don't get me wrong. I grew up in BC, and am a Seahawks fan. But to call them "elite" thats a bit of a stretch!!!!!!!

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Actually, your better measure/comparison of committed viewers is the regular season ratings on the same network when both seasons are running, i.e. now on TSN.

Exactly. And, as we already know, the CFL ratings beat the NFL ratings decisively during that period.

Regarding the NFL playoffs and Super Bowl, they both take place after the CFL season is over. By contrast, the CFL playoffs and Grey Cup must compete directly with NFL Sunday. That's hardly fair.

I am a CFL fan but watch the NFL playoffs and Super Bowl because the CFL season is over and I am still hungry for football and sporting spectacle. Every CFL fan I know does the exact same thing. Thus, the NFL playoffs and Super Bowl ratings likely piggyback on the millions of idle CFL fans. The CFL playoffs and Grey Cup, by comparison, get no such help from NFL fans who are busy watching NFL Sunday games at those times.

If you take away all the idle CFL fans (and all the clueless hangers-on at Super Bowl parties), you are left with the committed NFL fans, which is precisely what happens during the period of overlapping regular seasons, where the CFL beats the NFL.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Out of curiosity, how is kids' football (city leagues or schools) doing in Toronto and in southern Ontario in general? Up, down or stable?

They're ripping up football fields and building soccer pitches or places for people to play rugby and cricket. The high school down the street from me doesn't even have a football team. I doubt they have a hockey team either. In the sports field out back they play soccer and cricket. I play in a recreational flag football league down in the Port lands where there are 2 field turf surfaces with no lines of any kind.

People literally gawk at us wondering what Martian sport we're playing and why we aren't playing soccer instead.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Wow, those are still great numbers! Far higher for the Grey Cup than I would have expected! Well that is nice to see

I remember when a good 25-33% of the Canadian population regularly tuned into the Grey Cup; that would be around 9 to 12 million people in today's Canada. It truly was culturally dominant and a strong unifying force for the country. It still is, but a shadow of what it once was. No one back then would be caught dead watching US football and the CFL was celebrated coast to coast. There was even a Miss Grey Cup pageant if you can believe it. I do remember there being a Grey Cup parade in the host city every year, but don't remember there being one last year.

Miss Hamilton Tiger Cat & Miss BC Lion


Miss Grey Cup with the Prime Minister


The Grey Cup Parade

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Exactly. And, as we already know, the CFL ratings beat the NFL ratings decisively during that period.

Regarding the NFL playoffs and Super Bowl, they both take place after the CFL season is over. By contrast, the CFL playoffs and Grey Cup must compete directly with NFL Sunday. That's hardly fair.

I am a CFL fan but watch the NFL playoffs and Super Bowl because the CFL season is over and I am still hungry for football and sporting spectacle. Every CFL fan I know does the exact same thing. Thus, the NFL playoffs and Super Bowl ratings likely piggyback on the millions of idle CFL fans. The CFL playoffs and Grey Cup, by comparison, get no such help from NFL fans who are busy watching NFL Sunday games at those times.

If you take away all the idle CFL fans (and all the clueless hangers-on at Super Bowl parties), you are left with the committed NFL fans, which is precisely what happens during the period of overlapping regular seasons, where the CFL beats the NFL.

Really good points. Also there is more incidental watching of the NFL by CFL fans than vice-versa at any time during the year, so this boosts the NFL's numbers but the CFL does not get a similar boost.

I only know a few CFL fans who refuse to watch NFL, but there are tons of NFL fans who won't watch CFL at all, not even in the summer when the CFL is the only gridiron available.

[isaidso]

I'm likely one of the few football fans that doesn't switch to the NFL when the season is over. I'm a huge college basketball fan, so immerse myself in that after the Grey Cup. It's nothing against the NFL, but I no little about that league and have nothing invested in it. The NFL is going to have an awfully hard time luring me away from college hoops especially since it's been under way for a good 2 months so I've missed quite a bit already.

Side note: does anyone know what the US television audience is for CFL before the NFL kicks off?

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by elly63

The story of SkyDome

The idea for building an enclosed sports venue came following the Grey Cup game in November 1982, held at the outdoor Exhibition Stadium. The game was played in a driving rainstorm that left most of the crowd drenched, leading the media to call it "the Rain Bowl"--a nickname that has stuck to this day. Many of the seats were completely exposed to the elements, forcing thousands to watch the game from the concession section. To make a bad experience even worse, the washrooms overflowed. In attendance that day was then-Ontario Premier Bill Davis, and the poor conditions were seen by over 7,862,000 television viewers in Canada (at the time the largest TV audience ever in Canada). The following day, at a rally at Toronto City Hall, tens of thousands of people who were there to see the Toronto Argonauts began to chant, "We want a dome! We want a dome!" So too did others who began to discuss the possibility of an all-purpose, all-weather stadium.

This is why it baffles me that people are still suggesting the Argos move to BMO Field. They've played in an outdoor stadium in that exact goddamn spot and it was an absolute disaster. The entire reason the Skydome was built in fact.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Out of curiosity, how is kids' football (city leagues or schools) doing in Toronto and in southern Ontario in general? Up, down or stable?

I played high school football in Halton region and there were 3 tiers just for that region. Every school got a good turnout too. It seemed to be pretty popular here at least.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I remember when a good 25-33% of the Canadian population regularly tuned into the Grey Cup; that would be around 9 to 12 million people in today's Canada. It truly was culturally dominant and a strong unifying force for the country. It still is, but a shadow of what it once was. No one back then would be caught dead watching US football and the CFL was celebrated coast to coast. There was even a Miss Grey Cup pageant if you can believe it. I do remember there being a Grey Cup parade in the host city every year, but don't remember there being one last year.

Miss Hamilton Tiger Cat & Miss BC Lion


Miss Grey Cup with the Prime Minister


The Grey Cup Parade

Maybe all Grey Cups should be held in the West and Hamilton from henceforth until the rest of the eastern cities get off their holy-than-thou high horses, so that the West (and Hamilton) can bring the CFL back to its former entertainment glory with the parades and pageantry.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

This is why it baffles me that people are still suggesting the Argos move to BMO Field. They've played in an outdoor stadium in that exact goddamn spot and it was an absolute disaster. The entire reason the Skydome was built in fact.

Well, in fairness, the Argos most successful seasons in terms of attendance were on that site. They had sellout crowds of 33,000 to every game from the 1960s right up to when the Ex expanded in 1976 for the Blue Jays. Then it was average attendances ranging from 40,000 to 47,000 for the rest of the 1970s, before dropping off to the 30-thousands in the 1980s. Those were big numbers by any measure, back when the Argonauts had top billing in Toronto. I'm sure that back in the 1970s, their revenues would have been in the same ballpark as many NFL teams of the day.

But that said, those glory days are now a couple of generations in the past, and fan expectations have changed. What worked in 1976 might not work anymore.

I really hope the Argos get their own new stadium... apart from having a decent location, BMO is too small, basic and rinky-dink to be a suitable long-term home. I don't see how it would be considered an improvement over Rogers Centre. They would be better off having something bigger and better, provided that the club can find a way to pay for such a new facility.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Maybe all Grey Cups should be held in the West and Hamilton from henceforth until the rest of the eastern cities get off their holy-than-thou high horses, so that the West (and Hamilton) can bring the CFL back to its former entertainment glory with the parades and pageantry.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irony

[Chadillaccc]

How is that ironic? According to most Torontonians, Toronto is the centre of the Universe. When I went to school there, I met people who didn't even know there was a London in Canada. Even though it is only 2 hours away and has a population nearly half a million, pure arrogant ignorance en masse. The same can be said for most of their attitudes toward the CFL, especially on this forum. The east seems to not give a shit of the CFL, so why should the east be getting any preferential treatment at all? I don't see how or why that is ironic.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I'm likely one of the few football fans that doesn't switch to the NFL when the season is over.

I'm with you, I can't or refuse to relate to "athletes" (some not all) who feel they are entitled to be above others because of their insanely undeserved wealth. There's a reason why it's called the National Felon League. We hear about situations like the players in Regina because it is rare, we hear about the NFL players because of the cult of celebrity around them.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

According to most Torontonians, Toronto is the centre of the Universe.

I love it when people who aren't from Toronto say this

[Chadillaccc]

Agreed, it's quite sickening. However, it's not exclusive to football players. Though I would guess that the rate of criminal activity and rape is far higher in that sport compared to other major leagues.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

I love it when people who aren't from Toronto say this

I am from Toronto (area).

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

pure arrogant ignorance en masse. The same can be said for most of their attitudes toward the CFL, especially on this forum. The east seems to not give a shit of the CFL, so why should the east be getting any preferential treatment at all? I don't see how or why that is ironic.

The ironic thing is that they think they are the ones in style or vogue, the reality is the rest of the country outgrew the American inferiority complex and stopped being wannabees.

RIP American inferiority complex -
Place and Time of Death: Vancouver 2010

[Chadillaccc]

I think our sense of national pride and loss of the "I wanna be like the states" inferiority complex has been evolving for most of the time since the turn of the century, quite possibly even since the late 90s. I think you're right though that we realized our own greatness and potential during the Olympics, especially after we set 4 world records for medal counts and host nation. Although, I think the election and subsequent re-election of the war criminal W by the Americans made most Canadians realize that Canada is nearly perfect the way it is, by comparison. Also, have you noticed the amount of new Canadian shows that have come on the air since 2010? Most are doing quite well and have great production values. It's been a long time since so many shows centred on/in Canada have been on the air, at least from what I remember.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Well I’m not from here, the country even, but since I’ve moved here any time I’ve heard this “Toronto people think that Toronto is the centre of the universe” it is coming from non-Torontonians.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I think our sense of national pride and loss of the "I wanna be like the states" inferiority complex has been evolving for most of the time since the turn of the century, quite possibly even since the late 90s. I think you're right though that we realized our own greatness and potential during the Olympics, especially after we set 4 world records for medal counts and host nation. Have you noticed that amount of new Canadian shows that have come on the air since 2010? Most are doing quie well and have great production values. It's been a long time since so many shows centred on/in Canada have been on the air, at least from what I remember.

I agree with your timeline, the loss of the inferiority complex was over time and to me the final nail in the coffin was the Vancouver Olympics.

As someone who worked in Canadian TV at a local and network level, I know people don't have two clues when they disparage Canadian TV. They're the same people who denigrate the CFL. I'm not sure if it is still true but we were the number two producer of television in the world (even above the UK). A director told me once that it costs just as much to make a bad show as a good one and I took that lesson to heart.

If you make a quality program people will watch it, you don't have to pretend Toronto is Chicago. Corner Gas ran on WGN Chicago and was very popular for two reasons. One, it is relatable, and two, for an American it is something different. That's why they're watching it. That's why we watch Coronation Street.

My favourite TV series and one of the best I've ever seen is Slings and Arrows (a Canadian show with a young Rachel McAdams) I think the private concerns are doing the pretend Toronto is New York/Chicago thing less and less. They're seeing the light and finally growing up.