Manitoba | Highways

[cllew]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Ah ya. I had done some work for MTI of PTH 75 at the border crossing. And they did they same thing there. Rubbelizing seems like some kind of voodoo.

Is rubbelizing the same thing as the proof rolling to crack and seat bad pavement that the City of Winnipeg tried on a number of streets about 10 or 15 years ago? I remember they did it on the 500 block of my street and a street in NK that friends of mine lived on.

I have not seen any tenders for that so maybe it was not what they expected it to do.

Same as diamond grinding concrete pavement to smooth it out, it seemed to be done a few times on a few major streets like Chief Peguis west of Henderson and some of Bishop Grandon but I have not seen any tenders for that in a while either.

[plrh]

There is only one company in North America that rubblizes highways.
https://www.antigoconstruction.com/rubblization

Every contractor uses them.

In the city, contractors use a breaker (big jackhammer) attached to an excavator. The distances are much smaller.

[Carboy15]

https://steinbachonline.com/articles/traffic-slowed-on-highway-52-due-to-collision

Oh no, another collision on 52.

[Biff]

I’m pretty sure they used rubblization on Abinojii. The used a big tractor trailer looking machine with what looks like dozens of oversized pins to break the concrete.

[craner]

What is the distance on 75 south of Winnipeg to the US border ?

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Biff

I’m pretty sure they used rubblization on Abinojii. The used a big tractor trailer looking machine with what looks like dozens of oversized pins to break the concrete.

Looking at the tender specs for the Abinojii project, that sounds like the 2nd pass device to further break up the pavement after the mobile hammer breaker rig has gone by.

Or at least that was what was being asked for. The winning contractor may have proposed a different but equivalent way to break the pavement into the rubble sizes that were being asked for.

[WayneShuster]

Originally Posted by craner

What is the distance on 75 south of Winnipeg to the US border ?

Roughly 94kms from the Winnipeg Bypass Junction.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Carboy15

https://steinbachonline.com/articles/traffic-slowed-on-highway-52-due-to-collision

Oh no, another collision on 52.

I've been travelling to St Malo recently. In the twinning plans, interchanges at Niverville and Steinbach turn-offs should be included. Actually just mainline the twinned 59 straight onto twinned 52 heading to Steinbach. Make it one highway, full speed, and have an exit to head south on 59 from there.

[bomberjet]

The concept of rubbelization makes sense I guess. I just have no experience on the consistency of breaking the concrete down and the compacting it. And how consistent the outcomes are vs what would seem to be seem to be a difficult task. Ie: Breaking 8" or 10" of concrete down into small pieces similar to gravel, then compacting it to spec. Co-Pilot tells me (lol):

Concrete rubblization is a construction technique that breaks existing concrete into small fragments to create a base for new pavement or to decommission structures, saving time, cost, and materials.

What is Rubblization?
Rubblization involves fracturing existing concrete in place into small pieces, typically ranging from sand-sized particles to 4–8 inches in width, using specialized equipment such as hydraulic breakers or resonant beam machines. This process destroys the concrete slab’s structural integrity, turning it into a flexible, interlocked base material suitable for overlaying with asphalt or other pavement types. The technique eliminates reflective cracking, which occurs when asphalt overlays crack above concrete joints due to temperature and load stresses.

Applications
Road Rehabilitation: Rubblization is widely used to rehabilitate deteriorated Portland cement concrete roads. The fractured concrete serves as a base for a new asphalt overlay, providing a smoother surface and extending pavement life . It is particularly effective for roads with severe material durability issues, such as alkali-silica reactivity, D-cracking, or freeze-thaw damage.

[bomberjet]

I'm going to imagine the extreme weather events occurring will have an impact on future project budgeting. Ie: there's a boat load of water coming through the Assinniboine at this point. Shellmouth spillway is running very high. What the impacts will be at Portage we will see. Portage Diversion will surely be activated. There's still ~2 months to go on the severe weather front.

The numerous washouts, including what looks to be like some significant concrete box culvert type structures. Depending upon how things go throughout the watershed including Lake Manitoba, there could be significant costs this summer.

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I've been travelling to St Malo recently. In the twinning plans, interchanges at Niverville and Steinbach turn-offs should be included. Actually just mainline the twinned 59 straight onto twinned 52 heading to Steinbach. Make it one highway, full speed, and have an exit to head south on 59 from there.

Hwy 52 and 311 would definetely be core Intersections that would need to be looked at for futureproofing. I have kinda thought about making PTH 59 and 52 into one mainline expressway from Ile Dès Chênes to Mitchell.

But I was thinking maybe it would be a better idea to just have a conventional 3-Way Intersection at 59 @ 52. Eventually they could just build a trumpet Interchange at 52 and maybe a Diamond or Parclo at 311. But maybe if they were to do a mainline, an Intersection could look like this;

https://stroadz.glide.page/dl/d0a5f4/s/c0a8e8/r/oD2AlCvIijqw5vPZwr2M

Probably won't happen for a while, but I'm sure that Hwy 59 South of 52 (towards St Pierre Jolys) would be twinned eventually. Therefore having Hwy 59 just continue straight south with a 52 Intersection would be best. Highly doubt it would be twinned all the way to the US Border for a long time. But I can see once twinning happens, it would be used as a high quality alternative route for 75 during flood season (kinda already is).

[bomberjet]

Nah I'd just mainline it to Steinbach and put a trumpet for the 59/52 interchange. Simple diamond for Niverville. I don't see 59 south of the being twinned until next millennium. Traffic going north on 59 is inconvenienced at the trumpet yes, but overall would probably be the most cost effective option for an interchange. Doing directional ramps there seems excessive. In the end it will probably just be traffic signals..

[bomberjet]

Speaking of 59, this time going north to Grand Beach. The highway is in pretty bad shape. At minimum they should upgrade the current lanes to have proper paved shoulders and re-surface the whole stretch from the twinned portion northwards.

[BorealLynx]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Nah I'd just mainline it to Steinbach and put a trumpet for the 59/52 interchange. Simple diamond for Niverville. I don't see 59 south of the being twinned until next millennium. Traffic going north on 59 is inconvenienced at the trumpet yes, but overall would probably be the most cost effective option for an interchange. Doing directional ramps there seems excessive. In the end it will probably just be traffic signals..

I grew up along Hwy 59 south of 52. Two things to note. First, the further south you go from the 52 intersection, the lower the traffic gets. There is almost negligible traffic through Tolstoi and across the US border (their border crossing stats should bear that out).

Second, there is no way in our lifetimes that 59 would ever have the traffic volumes to justify twinning south of 52. It mostly feeds St. Pierre, Grunthal, and St. Malo and the park in summer. None of those are exactly hot spots for growth, and they are too far from the city to ever be bedroom communities (except maybe St. Pierre, but its population growth doesn't bear that out).

TL;DR - Don't bother planning for twinning 59 south of 52.

[NewIreland]

Somehow Eastern Canada managed to pretty much mirror the US standard when it comes to highway construction. You can travel from Windsor to Halifax on controlled access freeway built to a very high standard. However, when I moved to Winnipeg 10 years ago I was completely shocked. The lack of a national highway policy in Canada really shows in the Western Provinces. I love the fact that that there are no controlled access freeways inside the Perimeter, but the entire Perimeter should be a controlled access freeway AT BARE MINIMUM. Don’t get me started on the 3rd world bush trail that is the trans Canada west of Ottawa.

[harls]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

Somehow Eastern Canada managed to pretty much mirror the US standard when it comes to highway construction. You can travel from Windsor to Halifax on controlled access freeway built to a very high standard. However, when I moved to Winnipeg 10 years ago I was completely shocked. The lack of a national highway policy in Canada really shows in the Western Provinces. I love the fact that that there are no controlled access freeways inside the Perimeter, but the entire Perimeter should be a controlled access freeway AT BARE MINIMUM. Don’t get me started on the 3rd world bush trail that is the trans Canada west of Ottawa.

You need to travel some rural two lane highways in MB to get that quality experience. The ones that were neglected for sixty years. 23 from Somerset to Ninette is a good start.

[BorealLynx]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

Somehow Eastern Canada managed to pretty much mirror the US standard when it comes to highway construction. You can travel from Windsor to Halifax on controlled access freeway built to a very high standard. However, when I moved to Winnipeg 10 years ago I was completely shocked. The lack of a national highway policy in Canada really shows in the Western Provinces. I love the fact that that there are no controlled access freeways inside the Perimeter, but the entire Perimeter should be a controlled access freeway AT BARE MINIMUM. Don’t get me started on the 3rd world bush trail that is the trans Canada west of Ottawa.

For a true Canadian experience, try driving the TCH from Ottawa (Renfrew) to Winnipeg (Whiteshell). Take bets on whether or not you will make the journey alive. Lots of residents of Northern Ontario have to drive this on a regular basis, and it's a crap shoot every time you get in your car. Some don't make it home alive, but most do, and the rest of Canada doesn't care either way because "Nobody lives here anyway".

Oh, and by the way this is our "National" highway.

[harls]

Originally Posted by BorealLynx

For a true Canadian experience, try driving the TCH from Ottawa (Renfrew) to Winnipeg (Whiteshell). Take bets on whether or not you will make the journey alive. Lots of residents of Northern Ontario have to drive this on a regular basis, and it's a crap shoot every time you get in your car. Some don't make it home alive, but most do, and the rest of Canada doesn't care either way because "Nobody lives here anyway".

Oh, and by the way this is our "National" highway.

I did this last summer. I think this would be my fifth or sixth time. Even had my kids along with me. We survived.

I even did it in a rear wheel drive Mustang in December of 1994... and a Jeep TJ from Regina to Montreal in November 2001.

I understand you want a full freeway, but it is not as dangerous as you make it out to be.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by harls

I did this last summer. I think this would be my fifth or sixth time. Even had my kids along with me. We survived.

I even did it in a rear wheel drive Mustang in December of 1994... and a Jeep TJ from Regina to Montreal in November 2001.

I understand you want a full freeway, but it is not as dangerous as you make it out to be.

I've done them all;

The 17 through Cochrane;
The TCH via the Soo
US Highway 2 through the UP and Duluth; and
The full interstate through Chicago and Detroit.

The only one that I feared for my life was from Chicago to Detroit. The truck traffic was NUTS!!!

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Speaking of 59, this time going north to Grand Beach. The highway is in pretty bad shape. At minimum they should upgrade the current lanes to have proper paved shoulders and re-surface the whole stretch from the twinned portion northwards.

The Southbound 59 starting bit from from 317 got a great smooth top up in pst month, feels great driving on it! and it's just a asphalt top but man it was done quick!