Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW)

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 94

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

AF 327 on gate 15A & TS 382 on 14

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Highly doubt that. If oil prices stay this high, I think TS is gone by the end of this year or next.

https://canadianaviationnews.ca/transat-provides-update-on-the-volatility-of-aviation-fuel-prices/

In March and April, they spent $70 million more than anticipated due to fuel prices. That's very bad for an airline that hasn't been profitable for a number of years now.

PD won't be far behind, but as long as someone keeps pumping equity into PD, we can't be sure of anything. TS is a publicly traded company. Their books are out in the open, and it doesn't look good.

Spirit was the US's first casualty of these high oil prices. I think a Canadian carrier or two aren't too far behind.

Kinda surprises me to see expansion when bankruptcy looms for so many carriers.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

That is not what Dominion said. They mentioned that the timing of the flights was the surprise. And quite frankly, I find the 3x weekly on the XLR to be appalling. RomanR provides valuable info on the loads of these LHR flights, which you are more than welcome to go back to the comments made from them last winter to check the loads. After checking, ask yourself is the reduction from the 788 to an XLR warranted? AC can indeed increase these frequencies or at the very least put the 4x weekly in YOW over YHZ. It's clear AC wants nothing to do with YOW and this LHR route is just a "see? we're giving you a TATL, now shut up". YOW can in fact handle more capacity and more routes TATL, denying this gives me flashbacks of the skeptics such as yourself when AF announced their plans a few years ago. Now those people are eating their words.

There seems to be a pattern though I've noticed with AC. They don't give a damn until another carrier does something. YHZ-BRU or better yet, YYC-LHR staying DAILY on a WIDE BODY in the winter would never be a thing if it wasn't for WS. Since AC "can't find the demand to add more" then I hope TS adds more Europe from YOW, takes all this "little" demand, and runs them out of YOW. Enough is enough with this sub-par service just because they can't find the competition (NOT the demand) to justify it.

Calgary YYC - London UK - YYC route on Air Canada has been a widebody planes ✈️ ever since it started - from (AC) Boeing 767, 787, 777 operating it previous seasons/ years & also currently now the Airbus A330.
It was NOT because of (WS) WestJet’s entry on this route✅.

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

PD won't be far behind, but as long as someone keeps pumping equity into PD, we can't be sure of anything.

Porter has been around for nearly 20 years and I have always wondered how they survive. Don't get me wrong I like them but whoever if footing their bill must have a lot of money to waste (OMERS), there's no way that airline is profitable or even close to it.
They rely on lease-back arrangements which preserve capital, but hurts cash-flow on an on-going basis (leasing vs owning)

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

Calgary YYC - London UK - YYC route on Air Canada has been a widebody planes ✈️ ever since it started - from (AC) Boeing 767, 787, 777 operating it previous seasons/ years & also currently now the Airbus A330.
It was NOT because of (WS) WestJet’s entry on this route✅.

He thinks anything less than multiple widebodies at YOW is some conspiracy, rather than businesses making business decisions.

AF takes away a lot of the passengers who would connect in Europe. People here cheer that on. Then are surprised that other carriers don't want to jump in with their own widebodies. Why would anybody else be excited to compete against AF in a market of 1.5M, to lose money.....

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

He thinks anything less than multiple widebodies at YOW is some conspiracy, rather than businesses making business decisions.

AF takes away a lot of the passengers who would connect in Europe. People here cheer that on. Then are surprised that other carriers don't want to jump in with their own widebodies. Why would anybody else be excited to compete against AF in a market of 1.5M, to lose money.....

You can ask Etihad that question before they start YYC or is YOW the only airport in Canada that can’t support multiple carriers? YOW is a larger city than YYC and growing at a rate faster than YYC at a 2% more growth rate YoY. Back to LHR, AC was operating a hub with connections, I’m not questioning the service from 10 years ago, I’m questioning a daily wide body in the winter today with WS in the picture. But by all means continue to justify downgrading to XLR when J and PY on a 788 were doing well. YOW is in a unique position where a global airport is just down the road and until solid data is available to say not many leak to YUL, I will continue with my “conspiracies”, thanks. I am more than happy to admit I am wrong, but show me the data. Show me YOW if isolated from other major airports cannot sustain multiple foreign carriers. It’s difficult, because service levels compared to other airports suck and new services are risks rather than confidence.

Reminder: 57% of the total Paris O&D was leaking to YUL before AF and I heard these exact same words from people before they began the service. “How will they make money; they’re gonna go bankrupt; YOW can’t sustain this; what are they thinking blah blah blah blah blah”. This rhetoric is starting to sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher to me.

Another reminder: Business is personal.

[cr872190]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

You can ask Etihad that question before they start YYC or is YOW the only airport in Canada that can’t support multiple carriers? YOW is a larger city than YYC and growing at a rate faster than YYC at a 2% more growth rate YoY. Back to LHR, AC was operating a hub with connections, I’m not questioning the service from 10 years ago, I’m questioning a daily wide body in the winter today with WS in the picture. But by all means continue to justify downgrading to XLR when J and PY on a 788 were doing well. YOW is in a unique position where a global airport is just down the road and until solid data is available to say not many leak to YUL, I will continue with my “conspiracies”, thanks. I am more than happy to admit I am wrong, but show me the data. Show me YOW if isolated from other major airports cannot sustain multiple foreign carriers. It’s difficult, because service levels compared to other airports suck and new services are risks rather than confidence.

Reminder: 57% of the total Paris O&D was leaking to YUL before AF and I heard these exact same words from people before they began the service. “How will they make money; they’re gonna go bankrupt; YOW can’t sustain this; what are they thinking blah blah blah blah blah”. This rhetoric is starting to sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher to me.

Another reminder: Business is personal.

Its always surprised me a bit that Ottawans believe were missing out on international routes that were 'supposed to have'. Isn't a better comparison to Ottawa like Milwaukee or Jacksonville. Both have a similar ~1.5m catchment area. Milwaukee's proximity to Chicago is similar to us and Montreal/Toronto. Both airports handle 20-50% more traffic annually, and have no transatlantic routes. Jacksonville's only international destination is a seasonal Toronto route, and even Milwaukee has a far smaller Caribbean footprint.

Feels like were punching well above our weight?

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by cr872190

Its always surprised me a bit that Ottawans believe were missing out on international routes that were 'supposed to have'. Isn't a better comparison to Ottawa like Milwaukee or Jacksonville. Both have a similar ~1.5m catchment area. Milwaukee's proximity to Chicago is similar to us and Montreal/Toronto. Both airports handle 20-50% more traffic annually, and have no transatlantic routes. Jacksonville's only international destination is a seasonal Toronto route, and even Milwaukee has a far smaller Caribbean footprint.

Feels like were punching well above our weight?

I believe so too but Canadian airports punch above their weight when compared to US cities. Look at YYC and YHZ (YOW doesn’t come close for seats per capita). I’m not sure why, I’m not an expert but this is the case. I don’t compare YOW to US airports, I compare it to Canadian ones.

YEG had a campaign 16 years ago called “stop the Calgary habit”. Going off of memory, I think that stopped about 19k pax driving to YYC. The result was a couple more routes added in YEG. Not sure which ones or if they are still active. But a couple just from 19k? I would hazard a guess YOW-YUL leakage is MUCH higher than that by a long shot.

[RomanR27]

Post from YOW on Facebook about UA mainline

A big welcome to United’s mainline service at YOW! ✈️

Travellers flying between Ottawa and Chicago can now enjoy an upgraded onboard experience with enhanced comfort and service for both business and leisure passengers. And with United’s extensive global network through Chicago, even more destinations are now within easy reach from Canada’s capital.

The Airbus A319 aircraft operating the first daily YOW-ORD flight accommodates 126 passengers, including 12 United First, 36 United Economy Plus and 78 United Economy seats.

This enhancement to the Ottawa–Chicago route reflects the importance of strong hub connectivity for travellers from Ottawa-Gatineau.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Post from YOW on Facebook about UA mainline

I had two colleagues on yesterday and today's flights, ORD-YOW.

Yesterday was full in UA First with 4-5 on upgrade list (my colleague was one of them and no one cleared)... and today, Full in both UA First and Economy, with 10-12 on upgrade list.

No idea on the YOW-ORD loads but I know numerous people travelling to the DFW and/or DEN areas who use the UA ORD-YOW flight numerous times quarterly.

Personal antidote is I wonder if flying mainline with 12 UA First seats offsets having the plane go out with potentially 20 empty econ seats, or selling those 20 seats at a basic fare level.

Nevertheless, happy to see a US mainline carrier here.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Running late now with a 2243 scheduled arrival.

In a couple more weeks, if someone can catch it on a night it arrives 15-20 minutes early, would make for a good at dusk arrival photo.

I believe UA's 319s seat 128, so a nice bump up from the typical 76 seat E75.

EDIT: ended up arriving at 2223.

from YOW facebook

[RomanR27]

Also anecdotally, but I was looking at a potential YOW-LAS trip for work a few months ago, and noticed when looking at AC that ORD was the only UA option presented, whereas when looking through UA it of course presented all of EWR/IAD/ORD as options. Obviously ORD makes the most sense for that routing, but I was still kind of surprised AC didn't give EWR or IAD as options in either direction.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 84

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

Nic pic of the 319.

[solo748]

Originally Posted by MountainView

I had two colleagues on yesterday and today's flights, ORD-YOW.

Yesterday was full in UA First with 4-5 on upgrade list (my colleague was one of them and no one cleared)... and today, Full in both UA First and Economy, with 10-12 on upgrade list.

No idea on the YOW-ORD loads but I know numerous people travelling to the DFW and/or DEN areas who use the UA ORD-YOW flight numerous times quarterly.

Personal antidote is I wonder if flying mainline with 12 UA First seats offsets having the plane go out with potentially 20 empty econ seats, or selling those 20 seats at a basic fare level.

Nevertheless, happy to see a US mainline carrier here.

Just 1 data point but what an excellent one - esp the fact no UG cleared. Have to admit I never thought we'd see mainline service from US airlines.

Different scale obviously, but many similarities YOW:ORD for UAL and Atlantic Canada:YOW for PD - sizable local market, time zone difference allows for a perfectly timed AM East>West flow for both O/D and to feed an AM bank serving an enormous market


IMO PD should only have a handful of flights departing YOW each day before 830am - 2X YTZ, 1X YYZ, 1X YYC, 1X YVR, 1X YHZ

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 84

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

Nic pic of the 319.

AC889 was full in all three cabins today. AC888 this evening is 22/24 PY and 26/31 J. No flight on Monday as the slot was presumably reallocated to YUL due to F1.

[G650ER]

Originally Posted by MountainView

I had two colleagues on yesterday and today's flights, ORD-YOW.

Yesterday was full in UA First with 4-5 on upgrade list (my colleague was one of them and no one cleared)... and today, Full in both UA First and Economy, with 10-12 on upgrade list.

No idea on the YOW-ORD loads but I know numerous people travelling to the DFW and/or DEN areas who use the UA ORD-YOW flight numerous times quarterly.

Personal antidote is I wonder if flying mainline with 12 UA First seats offsets having the plane go out with potentially 20 empty econ seats, or selling those 20 seats at a basic fare level.

Nevertheless, happy to see a US mainline carrier here.

I wonder if we'll occasionally see an A320 upgrade here too or if the equipment remains year round. United is smart about YOW with no competition on their ORD and IAD routes. They really do offer a global network through those hubs too. Still a mystery to me why PD hasn't launched YOW-IAD/ORD at least once daily or go after an unserved city like PHL.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by G650ER

I wonder if we'll occasionally see an A320 upgrade here too or if the equipment remains year round. United is smart about YOW with no competition on their ORD and IAD routes. They really do offer a global network through those hubs too. Still a mystery to me why PD hasn't launched YOW-IAD/ORD at least once daily or go after an unserved city like PHL.

I don't think IAD would make much sense, but definitely ORD or PHL would as they're both AA hubs. Right now the cheapest one way n/s YOW-ORD I can find on Google Flights is about $500. Obviously the main purpose would be feeding the hub, but if you can poach some of the O/D traffic, might be an actual profitable route for Porter.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 91

Today's cancellation count (so far): 1

Is today the inaugural TS to YUL or did that already occur?

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Today’s departure count: 91

Today's cancellation count (so far): 1

Is today the inaugural TS to YUL or did that already occur?

Indeed it's today, operating days 27 at peak. First Sunday TS LGW flight today, and then the week after this coming week it will be at its peak 3x weekly when the Tuesday flight comes online.

Curious the loads on the feeder flights

[RomanR27]

Noticed that WS has loaded a weekly YOW-CUN flight on Sundays this winter, and 2x weekly YOW-PVR on Monday/Wednesdays that are bookable directly through them and not via Sunwing. I believe all the WS sun flying last winter was Sunwing exclusive, so interesting to see this. Especially since there isn't any Sunwing exclusive PVR loaded - you can book packages on Sunwing with the PVR flights (but not the Sunday CUN flight), however you can't book the PVR flights standalone. So that means WS is actually flat at 18x weekly across the board now compared to last winter. It also means across WS will be operating a daily CUN flight at peak. So that is a whopping 26x weekly CUN flights across PD, WS, AC and TS at peak, with both PD and WS having at least daily service.

Edit: I also noticed PD has reduced YSB to 4x weekly from the middle of June until the end of summer. I wonder if they'll reinstate YTZ service from YSB next summer or just close that station altogether.