Ottawa Bypass Corridor

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So many people on here are only looking at this as a thing for Ottawa's residents. If anything, this will serve people who are just passing through Ottawa more than the residents of the city.

How many people are just passing through Ottawa? Where do they live and where are they going?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

How many people are just passing through Ottawa? Where do they live and where are they going?

Just about no one. Ottawa's out of the way. That's the point of the 401.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by acottawa

It doesn’t do any of those things. The Queensway is uncongested 22 hours a day. Nobody going from Orleans to Kanata is going to drive way to the east, take a long circuitous route way outside the city and then drive back east to get to Canada. They are going to get in the Queensway and be there in 20 minutes.

Other cities with ring roads usually don’t have a mostly uncongested freeways running through the centre of the city. If this was a debate in the 1950s between building the Queensway and building a ring road it might make sense to build the ring road (which would have been much closer to the city centre in that era). With the Queensway there it just connects a few lightly populated areas to each other, without any obvious reason why people want to travel between these lightly populated areas.

You lost me at the second sentence. The Queensway is congested several hours a day. I see stop and go in both directions every weekend at various times. I'm sitting in the Chapters parking lot looking at a very congested Queensway at 11:32am at this very moment. 'Rush Hour' has become 'Rush Day' in many sections over the past few years, and it will only get worse as our transit systems flounders and more people get back to the office and the city grows. 22 hours a day uncongested....as someone who drives across the city all day every day for work, that made me laugh pretty darned hard.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

That’s actually the case made for Highway 413 because Caledon will grow either way.

I actually don't buy this argument. It's not just about whether it will grow, but how it will grow. New highways are almost without exception massive generators of car-intensive sprawl.

I really don't see the case for this road, except from the perspective of growing light industry (read fulfilment centres). I don't think we want to go down that road (no pun intended).

[Dzingle Bells]

Originally Posted by Harley613

You lost me at the second sentence. The Queensway is congested several hours a day. I see stop and go in both directions every weekend at various times. I'm sitting in the Chapters parking lot looking at a very congested Queensway at 11:32am at this very moment. 'Rush Hour' has become 'Rush Day' in many sections over the past few years, and it will only get worse as our transit systems flounders and more people get back to the office and the city grows. 22 hours a day uncongested....as someone who drives across the city all day every day for work, that made me laugh pretty darned hard.

looks pretty uncongested to me..

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Dzingle Bells

looks pretty uncongested to me..

One minute ago before I got off and pulled over. It was this busy throughout the west end, one single disruption from a full jam in either direction. Google doesn't tell the whole story

[Marshsparrow]

In Autowa congested is if you don't have the entire lane 250m in front or in back of you and clear on both sides as you traverse the city as a lone occupant.

If we could get LRT working and expanded and reliable feeder bus networks imagine the possibilities.

And no new bridges to Gatineau before Ontario $ is spent on much needed infrastructure here first. A toll bridge where the full cost is paid by those who use it I would support.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Harley613

You lost me at the second sentence. The Queensway is congested several hours a day. I see stop and go in both directions every weekend at various times. I'm sitting in the Chapters parking lot looking at a very congested Queensway at 11:32am at this very moment. 'Rush Hour' has become 'Rush Day' in many sections over the past few years, and it will only get worse as our transit systems flounders and more people get back to the office and the city grows. 22 hours a day uncongested....as someone who drives across the city all day every day for work, that made me laugh pretty darned hard.

Yeah, there's some congestion on weekends to between Bronson and maybe Maitland, but it adds maybe 5 minutes to the trip. It looks worse than it is.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

In Autowa congested is if you don't have the entire lane 250m in front or in back of you and clear on both sides as you traverse the city as a lone occupant.

If we could get LRT working and expanded and reliable feeder bus networks imagine the possibilities.

And no new bridges to Gatineau before Ontario $ is spent on much needed infrastructure here first. A toll bridge where the full cost is paid by those who use it I would support.

Funny that you mention 250 m.
Ontario provincial freeways are designed to 120 kph (probably 130 kph in the future), where the stopping distance is 245 m (in ideal conditions).
If people consistently can’t keep that distance, the level of service for the roadway is probably not A (the best) though not necessarily F (the worst) either.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Yeah, there's some congestion on weekends to between Bronson and maybe Maitland, but it adds maybe 5 minutes to the trip. It looks worse than it is.

I visited my parents in Kanata most weekends (pre-chemo) for years, coming from Quebec. I have run into 20-30 minute weekend jams on the West Queensway countless times, especially Eastbound on Sunday afternoon as the cottagers return.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I visited my parents in Kanata most weekends (pre-chemo) for years, coming from Quebec. I have run into 20-30 minute weekend jams on the West Queensway countless times, especially Eastbound on Sunday afternoon as the cottagers return.

Ah…
My trick to go from Pont Champlain area to Kanata is to do this:
The Parkway -> Carling -> Poulin -> Richmond -> 417 (by Bayshore).
Maybe it takes even longer, but at least it’s scenic and it bypasses all that nonsense east of Greenbank.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Ah…
My trick to go from Pont Champlain area to Kanata is to do this:
The Parkway -> Carling -> Poulin -> Richmond -> 417 (by Bayshore).
Maybe it takes even longer, but at least it’s scenic and it bypasses all that nonsense east of Greenbank.

Ahhh but your primary vehicle isn't a commercial vehicle q

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Funny that you mention 250 m.
Ontario provincial freeways are designed to 120 kph (probably 130 kph in the future), where the stopping distance is 245 m (in ideal conditions).
If people consistently can’t keep that distance, the level of service for the roadway is probably not A (the best) though not necessarily F (the worst) either.

OK fair... then in Autowa 1km in front or behind of you.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Funny that you mention 250 m.
Ontario provincial freeways are designed to 120 kph (probably 130 kph in the future), where the stopping distance is 245 m (in ideal conditions).
If people consistently can’t keep that distance, the level of service for the roadway is probably not A (the best) though not necessarily F (the worst) either.

You don't need to leave the full stopping distance in front of you, as the car in front of you has that same 245m stopping distance. Instead, the general recommendation is to keep 3 seconds between you and the car in front of you (though the MTO seems to only recommend 2 seconds). Since 120 km/h is 33.3 m/s, at that speed, you only need to be 100m behind the car in front of you to keep that 3 second spacing (or 66.7m for 2 seconds), not 245m.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Harley613

You lost me at the second sentence. The Queensway is congested several hours a day. I see stop and go in both directions every weekend at various times. I'm sitting in the Chapters parking lot looking at a very congested Queensway at 11:32am at this very moment. 'Rush Hour' has become 'Rush Day' in many sections over the past few years, and it will only get worse as our transit systems flounders and more people get back to the office and the city grows. 22 hours a day uncongested....as someone who drives across the city all day every day for work, that made me laugh pretty darned hard.

Are you looking at some temporary situation related to the widening of the Queensway or the new train line and pedestrian bridge under construction across the street from you. Most delays I have seen driving on it at various times of day are related to temporary bottlenecks related to construction.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Funny that you mention 250 m.
Ontario provincial freeways are designed to 120 kph (probably 130 kph in the future), where the stopping distance is 245 m (in ideal conditions).
If people consistently can’t keep that distance, the level of service for the roadway is probably not A (the best) though not necessarily F (the worst) either.

The Queensway is not designed for those speeds. It doesn’t have full shoulders or full length on ramps.

Also, what are you driving that it takes 245 m to stop, a 747?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Harley613

One minute ago before I got off and pulled over. It was this busy throughout the west end, one single disruption from a full jam in either direction. Google doesn't tell the whole story

Your photo shows a bottleneck created by temporary lane reductions due to construction. The orange sign is right there.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by acottawa

How many people are just passing through Ottawa? Where do they live and where are they going?

Anyone going east/west and not needing to go through Toronto will take 17/417. Prime example is when I go to Montreal from Sudbury.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Just about no one. Ottawa's out of the way. That's the point of the 401.

You mean no one crosses Canada? How narrow minded are you?

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

In Autowa congested is if you don't have the entire lane 250m in front or in back of you and clear on both sides as you traverse the city as a lone occupant.

If we could get LRT working and expanded and reliable feeder bus networks imagine the possibilities.

And no new bridges to Gatineau before Ontario $ is spent on much needed infrastructure here first. A toll bridge where the full cost is paid by those who use it I would support.

My definition of congestion is not able to maintain the posted limit in any lane.

Originally Posted by roger1818

You don't need to leave the full stopping distance in front of you, as the car in front of you has that same 245m stopping distance. Instead, the general recommendation is to keep 3 seconds between you and the car in front of you (though the MTO seems to only recommend 2 seconds). Since 120 km/h is 33.3 m/s, at that speed, you only need to be 100m behind the car in front of you to keep that 3 second spacing (or 66.7m for 2 seconds), not 245m.

Is everyone here too young to not remember "Keep apart 2 chevrons"?

Originally Posted by acottawa

Your photo shows a bottleneck created by temporary lane reductions due to construction. The orange sign is right there.

Yes, and that seems to be a theme on that highway for the last 5-10+ years.

[Dengler Avenue]

You mean no one crosses Canada?

To be fair, cross-country traffic east of Montreal may use QC-117 then somehow hop onto ON-11 instead.
Persuading them to use 17/417 pretty much requires extending 417 to North Bay as initially considered back in the mid-60s.
Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17UbhIysdNFha3mlUxxR9l_dGmjBmLxW-/view?
F.O.I.’s a wonderful but expensive tool for obtaining this type of information.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Anyone going east/west and not needing to go through Toronto will take 17/417. Prime example is when I go to Montreal from Sudbury.



You mean no one crosses Canada? How narrow minded are you?

So how many people would you estimate in a given day drive from Montreal to Sudbury?

People driving across the country for tourist reasons often want to stop in the country’s capital city.