Ottawa Bypass Corridor

[Kitchissippi]

Ten years ago I posted this idea on another thread, extending the 4-laning of highway 7 south towards Smiths Falls (and eventually to Kingston/Ivy Lea/I-81) and re-christening it Hwy 415, and re-routing Hwy 7 via Roger Stevens/Snake Island

[FrostyMug]

A way to avoid traveling through the centre of the city to get to the 416 to go to the 401 from Orleans would be ideal assuming that the travel time is less than it is now to get to the same point along the 416. Having said that there's no way that anyone will convince the folks living in Orleans that a bridge to Quebec will benefit them in any way. It will just bring more congestion to the 174. There's a ferry in Cumberland and it's more than enough. But mostly a ring freeway will just contribute to urban sprawl and that benefits only the developers.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

A way to avoid traveling through the centre of the city to get to the 416 to go to the 401 from Orleans would be ideal assuming that the travel time is less than it is now to get to the same point along the 416. Having said that there's no way that anyone will convince the folks living in Orleans that a bridge to Quebec will benefit them in any way. It will just bring more congestion to the 174. There's a ferry in Cumberland and it's more than enough. But mostly a ring freeway will just contribute to urban sprawl and that benefits only the developers.

Urban sprawl will happen whether any of us want it or not. Having good transportation is important.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

A way to avoid traveling through the centre of the city to get to the 416 to go to the 401 from Orleans would be ideal assuming that the travel time is less than it is now to get to the same point along the 416. Having said that there's no way that anyone will convince the folks living in Orleans that a bridge to Quebec will benefit them in any way. It will just bring more congestion to the 174. There's a ferry in Cumberland and it's more than enough. But mostly a ring freeway will just contribute to urban sprawl and that benefits only the developers.

Developers and those who want their SFH home 45 minutes from work for a decent price. This forum always imagines they are tricked or something. Even half the longtime posters on an urban skyscraper forum seem to live in the suburbs.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Ten years ago I posted this idea on another thread, extending the 4-laning of highway 7 south towards Smiths Falls (and eventually to Kingston/Ivy Lea/I-81) and re-christening it Hwy 415, and re-routing Hwy 7 via Roger Stevens/Snake Island

Oh yes I remember that map. So that was from you not from @lrt’s friend.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Urban sprawl will happen whether any of us want it or not. Having good transportation is important.

That’s actually the case made for Highway 413 because Caledon will grow either way.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Harley613

This sounds a way to help today, not a way to help 20-40 years from now our population is growing out to around what Vancouver's is today. There WILL be a ring road. Will we wait until it's too late to reserve the rights of way needed to make it serve our existing sprawl, or will we build it even further out and risk inducing further sprawl? Orleans, Findlay Creek, Manotick, Riverside South, Barrhaven and Kanata exist. Soon Tewin will exist. They will continue to grow and we have to accept that. This kind of thinking that has caused so many of the problems this city has faced in the modern era.

We have no idea what the population will be in 40 years. The Feds are increasingly hiring remote workers who never bother to move to Ottawa. Ottawa’s large boomer population will be long gone and it’s Gen Zs will be retired.



Tewiin is right on top of the 417, so it is not lacking for highway access.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by acottawa

We have no idea what the population will be in 40 years. The Feds are increasingly hiring remote workers who never bother to move to Ottawa. Ottawa’s large boomer population will be long gone and it’s Gen Zs will be retired.

The world is on the cusp of the largest migration of human beings in history. Massive swaths of the planet around the tropics and along the coastlines will become uninhabitable starting in 20-40 years. I have a pretty good feeling that Ottawa, and Canada in general, will become a pretty popular destination for the hundreds of millions of climate refugees.

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by Harley613

As for the escarpment, yes there will be some expropriation, as with all major infrastructure projects of this type. There is very very minimal expropriation along my route though.

Your Orléans bridge idea won't work, you can't cross there. So many reason - Geology, large wetland on the Quebec side, existing development in Orleans etc...

Trim road could have worked had it been built 25 years ago, nothing much more east. The Duck Island route is still pretty good if you want to move East from Kettle (but Kettle makes most sense)

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Harley613

The world is on the cusp of the largest migration of human beings in history. Massive swaths of the planet around the tropics and along the coastlines will become uninhabitable starting in 20-40 years. I have a pretty good feeling that Ottawa, and Canada in general, will become a pretty popular destination for the hundreds of millions of climate refugees.

I think that climate refugee predictions are overblown. Americans continue to move in droves to climate hot spots like Florida and Texas while ignoring stable climates like Wisconsin. It is far easier to mitigate climate (challenges then move around the world. Bit if you think that is going to happen we would be better of building housing for climate refugees than roads to nowhere.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Ten years ago I posted this idea on another thread, extending the 4-laning of highway 7 south towards Smiths Falls (and eventually to Kingston/Ivy Lea/I-81) and re-christening it Hwy 415, and re-routing Hwy 7 via Roger Stevens/Snake Island

Who exactly is this meant to serve and what's the demand case?

Like the 5 guys coming from Perth that don't want to drive through Ottawa on the way to Embrun?

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think that climate refugee predictions are overblown. Americans continue to move in droves to climate hot spots like Florida and Texas while ignoring stable climates like Wisconsin. It is far easier to mitigate climate (challenges then move around the world. Bit if you think that is going to happen we would be better of building housing for climate refugees than roads to nowhere.

The Americans moving to Texas and Florida and signing 30 year mortgages are going to have rude awakenings in the coming decades. Luckily, in this case of migration, the skilled workers to build new homes in tolerable climates come as refugees as well.

When did I suggest building roads to nowhere?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Harley613

The Americans moving to Texas and Florida and signing 30 year mortgages are going to have rude awakenings in the coming decades. Luckily, in this case of migration, the skilled workers to build new homes in tolerable climates come as refugees as well.

When did I suggest building roads to nowhere?

With a few exceptions climate related changes are a higher frequency or intensity of events people are already used to. Ottawa will get more ice storms, more tornadoes, more floods, more smoke, none of which are likely to induce Ottawa residents to abandon their lives and move to Timmins.

This whole ring road is a road to nowhere. It connects lightly populated areas with other lightly populated areas most people have no reason to go to.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Who exactly is this meant to serve and what's the demand case?

Like the 5 guys coming from Perth that don't want to drive through Ottawa on the way to Embrun?

It can also serve people going between Toronto and Montreal that don’t wanna deal with 401.
With certain parts of 401 slated to be widened to 6 lanes in Eastern Ontario, though, the plan will be on the back burner.

Highway 7 between Peterborough and Carleton Place is a hot potato. Some say that upgrading a bit will tip the scale (such as shifting large amount of traffic from 401 to 7) and warrant even more upgrades.

Ps: A freeway connection to Gatineau becomes useful (for super long-distance traffic) if MTQ extends A50 from Mirabel to Joliette because that’ll bypass Montreal. The upgrades to Rte 158 west of Joliette means that this is technically still in the cards.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by acottawa

With a few exceptions climate related changes are a higher frequency or intensity of events people are already used to. Ottawa will get more ice storms, more tornadoes, more floods, more smoke, none of which are likely to induce Ottawa residents to abandon their lives and move to Timmins.

This whole ring road is a road to nowhere. It connects lightly populated areas with other lightly populated areas most people have no reason to go to.

It literally and technically connects a full half of the population of the city by freeway, hundreds of thousands of people in existing, growing, and new communities who have no easy way to reach each other, especially as our rapid transit system is built solely to get people to the core. It makes for massively improved logistics, and takes the vast majority of goods transport out of the core. It opens up possibilities for densification in existing suburbs, rather than extending the suburbs even further. You call Kanata, Barrhaven, Riverside South, Findlay Creek, Future Train, and Barrhaven lightly populated?

Have you ever noticed that virtually ever city this size worldwide has a freeway ring road? Even much vaunted transportation oriented cities in Europe?

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Who exactly is this meant to serve and what's the demand case?

Like the 5 guys coming from Perth that don't want to drive through Ottawa on the way to Embrun?

If you’ve ever been on Roger Stevens, it’s already a heavy truck route. It also replaces the winding route north of Mississippi Lake and connects Perth and Smiths Falls in a more logical manner to the road grid. These communities including Osgoode, Metcalfe, Russell and Embrun a good places to set up light industries and manufacturing (to get on the push to bring these back to North America with more automation). Allowing these places to grow (in medium density fashion), having new homes closer to new jobs, can actually take pressures off traffic because it’s more localized. The expectation that Ottawa is somehow going to increasingly centralize and super density is a bit unrealistic and antiquated as office jobs are not where the future is pointing to.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Harley613

The Americans moving to Texas and Florida and signing 30 year mortgages are going to have rude awakenings in the coming decades. Luckily, in this case of migration, the skilled workers to build new homes in tolerable climates come as refugees as well.

When did I suggest building roads to nowhere?

Really? What will make in inhabitable? Regardless the US has lots of colder areas that will benefit from being warmer so why would we have to accept them as refugees. The rest of the world is separated by an ocean. I am not sure there is a direct correlation anyway. India has never been able to feed its own people better in its history than now and we have a record number of immigrants from there.

[lrt's friend]

The route needs to run a bit further south between Bank and the Rideau River. The Trillium Line would cross it twice and Riverside South will eventually extend south and east to Rideau Road with two stations nearby.

The airport parkway extension runs exactly where the Trillium Line is located, and runs through sensitive wetlands. It will be difficult to build a highway there. This is why all plans improve Lester and Albion Roads.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by Harley613

My full map includes a bridge crossing there to Buckingham/Masson/Angers, which makes going to the 174 make mores sense. Besides that, there would ABSOLUTELY be demand for a good connection between Orleans and Tewin/Airport/Southern Suburbs. Skipping the core to get from Orleans to the 416 South would be very popular.

YES! And I would happily pay a toll for the privilege to do it!

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Oh yes I remember that map. So that was from you not from @lrt’s friend.

That’s actually the case made for Highway 413 because Caledon will grow either way.

We either build it before it overgrows or when the traffic becomes unbearable.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It can also serve people going between Toronto and Montreal that don’t wanna deal with 401.
With certain parts of 401 slated to be widened to 6 lanes in Eastern Ontario, though, the plan will be on the back burner.

Highway 7 between Peterborough and Carleton Place is a hot potato. Some say that upgrading a bit will tip the scale (such as shifting large amount of traffic from 401 to 7) and warrant even more upgrades.

Ps: A freeway connection to Gatineau becomes useful (for super long-distance traffic) if MTQ extends A50 from Mirabel to Joliette because that’ll bypass Montreal. The upgrades to Rte 158 west of Joliette means that this is technically still in the cards.

So many people on here are only looking at this as a thing for Ottawa's residents. If anything, this will serve people who are just passing through Ottawa more than the residents of the city.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Harley613

It literally and technically connects a full half of the population of the city by freeway, hundreds of thousands of people in existing, growing, and new communities who have no easy way to reach each other, especially as our rapid transit system is built solely to get people to the core. It makes for massively improved logistics, and takes the vast majority of goods transport out of the core. It opens up possibilities for densification in existing suburbs, rather than extending the suburbs even further. You call Kanata, Barrhaven, Riverside South, Findlay Creek, Future Train, and Barrhaven lightly populated?

Have you ever noticed that virtually ever city this size worldwide has a freeway ring road? Even much vaunted transportation oriented cities in Europe?

It doesn’t do any of those things. The Queensway is uncongested 22 hours a day. Nobody going from Orleans to Kanata is going to drive way to the east, take a long circuitous route way outside the city and then drive back east to get to Canada. They are going to get in the Queensway and be there in 20 minutes.

Other cities with ring roads usually don’t have a mostly uncongested freeways running through the centre of the city. If this was a debate in the 1950s between building the Queensway and building a ring road it might make sense to build the ring road (which would have been much closer to the city centre in that era). With the Queensway there it just connects a few lightly populated areas to each other, without any obvious reason why people want to travel between these lightly populated areas.