Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[bob rulz]

I think it's naive to assume that the western U.S. will persevere through climate change without serious hardship. Yes, a lot of areas are taking water conservation more seriously, but is that enough to counteract the unsustainable growth we're seeing out west?

I am not a hopeless doom-and-gloom person, but I don't think we can really fully grasp the impending effects of climate change. We are only in the early stages, and while this year has been good as far as water goes, I don't suspect it will be a long-term trend. The survival of the west and cities like Salt Lake, Las Vegas and Phoenix go far beyond economic boom-or-bust cycles.

Also, I love the massing renderings on the last couple of pages. Love to see those!

[freeshavocado]

There will always be enough drinking water for residents of SLC. There may not always be enough water for agriculture/golf/your huge lawn.

And call me a misguided optimist, but I don't think the state/feds will allow the GSL to empty. Water diversion for agriculture will be reduced, and more water will go to the lake. There's also a chance the drought will let up. And some climate models show the Wasatch Front becoming a wetter area with global warming (not counting on it).

But I agree that hardship is likely. Difficult decisions will need to be made before farmers are paid off and residential use is curbed significantly.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I think it's naive to assume that the western U.S. will persevere through climate change without serious hardship. Yes, a lot of areas are taking water conservation more seriously, but is that enough to counteract the unsustainable growth we're seeing out west?

I am not a hopeless doom-and-gloom person, but I don't think we can really fully grasp the impending effects of climate change. We are only in the early stages, and while this year has been good as far as water goes, I don't suspect it will be a long-term trend. The survival of the west and cities like Salt Lake, Las Vegas and Phoenix go far beyond economic boom-or-bust cycles.

Also, I love the massing renderings on the last couple of pages. Love to see those!

Why do you see it as an unsustainable city growth issue when this is the minority of water use? I see it as a food supply problem for the country. Agriculture uses approximately 80% of the Colorado River’s water, using it to irrigate 15% of the nation’s farmland, and produce 90% of the winter vegetables. Less water is going to equal less food and therefore higher prices, especially for winter vegetables.

The cities you mention do not depend on agriculture as part of the major economic engines. The value of urban development fuels assets like the silicon slopes in Utah, massive advanced manufacturing in Phoenix and insane tourism in Las Vegas. The tradeoff is already happening in lower basin states and SLC is going to deal with it now as well. Arizona is furloughing farms left and right but there are zero restrictions on urban water use. California has a massive agriculture economy so that will be a really huge battle in my opinion but there's no doubt the farms are shrinking each year.

Water in the west is an economic tool, it's basically like money, states will have to decide where to invest it as a finite asset. Do you spend your water supply on growing lettuce, cotton, and other food or expanding an advanced economy such as semiconductor manufacturing?

[locolife]

Originally Posted by freeshavocado

There will always be enough drinking water for residents of SLC. There may not always be enough water for agriculture/golf/your huge lawn.

And call me a misguided optimist, but I don't think the state/feds will allow the GSL to empty. Water diversion for agriculture will be reduced, and more water will go to the lake. There's also a chance the drought will let up. And some climate models show the Wasatch Front becoming a wetter area with global warming (not counting on it).

But I agree that hardship is likely. Difficult decisions will need to be made before farmers are paid off and residential use is curbed significantly.

I agree, the question is how much do we need to reduce use by to stabilize the lakes and reservoirs in the west, including GSL. But steps will be taken, I think food prices will go up, pain will be had but I do think we figure it out in the long run. Perhaps the American deserts aren't the best places to grow food after all , shifting that production to the Midwest, which will likely experience longer growing seasons, can make sense.

I saw this story this week.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2022/12/29/utah-deq-denies-us-magnesiums/

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Marvland

Great points Delts and Locolife. I don't fall inline with the common narrative that desert cities like Phoenix and Vegas "shouldn't exist" as they are much better with water conservation than upbasin states, specifically Utah. They will adapt and re-invent themselves. But they also require huge amounts of water draw, hence the LV Heck, if Dubai can exist then these cities can exist. But it will get draconian. Any major pumping operation whether it be desalination/distribution etc will require huge amounts of resources and power. I'd say that any of those solutions will need nuclear power in the coastal states to make happen, which I give a low probability. With proposals like the Powell Pipeline (thankfully dead for now because of low water levels) and Southern Nevada Water Authority’s “Groundwater Development Project" to vampire water out of the northern Great Basin, we are seeing the desperation right now. An amazing book that I cannot recommend enough is Marc Reisner's Cadillac Desert. Almost every prophecy he predicted is happening now from the drying up of the Ogalala aquifer under Texas and Oklahoma to the drying up of groundwater in the Central Valley, to the likely epic western droughts etc. It's also a great read, particularly the sections on the Owen's Valley water wars, Mulholland's Folly and one of the best narratives of John Wesley Powell's journeys down the Colorado and his later days in Washington. Great read.

I'll check that book out, I travel to Texas for work and have read up on the aquifer depletion challenges that are facing cities like Austin and San Antonio.

The only thing I wanted to point out is that Arizona isn't looking at a coastal state for desalinization, Phoenix is closer to coastal Mexico than it is coastal California. The plan being explored down here is to desalinate near Rocky Point and pump water up to Phoenix from there; CAP already pumps Colorado River water over 200 miles from the CA boarder to Phoenix, so the infrastructure and required electric generation is already there, you just need the pipeline from Rocky Point and then divert electricity previously used for CO River water to this instead. Phoenix is already home to the nation's largest Nuclear site, Palo Verde. So while it initially sounds far fetched as you look into it further the possibility becomes more realistic.

All of this should/could only help Northern states as less reliance on Colorado River water in the Southern Basin states should allow more to be kept in upstream reservoirs. None of these solutions will be cheap or easy but as you said; Dubai has figured it out relying almost entirely on desalinated water, having part of this as the Western US water supply mix is not a totally crazy concept.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by locolife

I'll check that book out, I travel to Texas for work and have read up on the aquifer depletion challenges that are facing cities like Austin and San Antonio.

The only thing I wanted to point out is that Arizona isn't looking at a coastal state for desalinization, Phoenix is closer to coastal Mexico than it is coastal California. The plan being explored down here is to desalinate near Rocky Point and pump water up to Phoenix from there; CAP already pumps Colorado River water over 200 miles from the CA boarder to Phoenix, so the infrastructure and required electric generation is already there, you just need the pipeline from Rocky Point and then divert electricity previously used for CO River water to this instead. Phoenix is already home to the nation's largest Nuclear site, Palo Verde. So while it initially sounds far fetched as you look into it further the possibility becomes more realistic.

All of this should/could only help Northern states as less reliance on Colorado River water in the Southern Basin states should allow more to be kept in upstream reservoirs. None of these solutions will be cheap or easy but as you said; Dubai has figured it out relying almost entirely on desalinated water, having part of this as the Western US water supply mix is not a totally crazy concept.

Great points all. The truth is we are 30 years late to the party and the downstream effects of water scarcity are not known. Sort of an aside, the Great Salt Lake should be a national park BTW. It is really the first step that needs to be taken. It needs to be preserved and protected and it seems both sides seem to understand that. Another huge change that is taking place is the legislature passing secondary water metering and opening water markets for purchase transfer into easement. Now the state and feds need to declare a state of emergency and under that authority suspend the concept of "beneficial use", better known as "use it or lose it". That's the reason you see insane levels of afternoon watering in August in Feron et al.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Marvland

AMEN! RMP or the Fairpark BAYBEEEEE.

That’s not going to happen. RMP. Already has plans for their property. Phase one starts construction this spring, at which time they are expected to reveal plans for the rest of the site.

One possibility would be the property along north temple currently being occupied by trailer parks. As the redevelopment of North Temple continues to become more rapid, the property value will continue to rise. It’s only a matter of time until the owners of thoes trailer parks sale… their days are numbered.

However. Utah isn’t getting an NFL team any time in the foreseeable future so it doesn’t really matter. The NFL will never accommodate utahs anti Sunday religious culture the way that the NBA does… sure things will possibly change in the future, but by the time that happens there won’t be any land along north temple or probably anywhere else in the main downtown area available to build a stadium… it would most certainly end up in the suburbs.

I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the jazz relocate to the suburbs within the next 15-20 years and the Vivint arena becomes another memory just like the salt palace arena.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

That’s not going to happen. RMP. Already has plans for their property. Phase one starts construction this spring, at which time they are expected to reveal plans for the rest of the site.

One possibility would be the property along north temple currently being occupied by trailer parks. As the redevelopment of North Temple continues to become more rapid, the property value will continue to rise. It’s only a matter of time until the owners of thoes trailer parks sale… their days are numbered.

However. Utah isn’t getting an NFL team any time in the foreseeable future so it doesn’t really matter. The NFL will never accommodate utahs anti Sunday religious culture the way that the NBA does… sure things will possibly change in the future, but by the time that happens there won’t be any land along north temple or probably anywhere else in the main downtown area available to build a stadium… it would most certainly end up in the suburbs.

I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the jazz relocate to the suburbs within the next 15-20 years and the Vivint arena becomes another memory just like the salt palace arena.

NBA teams should be downtown, they play a lot of games, I feel the same about MLB and NHL. NFL being a bit out is okay with me, these facilities and their parking take up a ton of space and get used only a 20-30x per year if you’re lucky. Having an NFL stadium in a prime downtown location is kind of a waste, the others draw a lot of other events much more frequently.

[delts145]

While it's fun to speculate as to when and where with the NFL, MLB, and NHL there are too many possible variables involved at this point to predict a factual outcome. However, let's put to rest the idea that the Jazz/NBA Arena will locate away from downtown and into the suburbs. Literally, billions of dollars of development have been poured into the downtown Salt Lake market over the past 10 to 20 years and this is only accelerating. Those investments such as City Creek, numerous hotels, small businesses, huge residential buildup, and even Temple Square upgrades all have a definite symbiotic tie-in to the constant flow of neighboring NBA games and the large flow of dependable traffic dollars that the Jazz and other scheduled events generate. What major power brokers be they political, business or ecclesiastical would want one of downtown's most prolific revenue generators to vacate and kill the 500lb golden goose? Way too much regular NBA seasonal financial influence is generated and spread out over downtown on so many fronts at this point to throw it all away to suburban downtown wannabes that will remain minor players for decades to come. That NBA Arena with its constant seasonal flow of 41-plus games and hundreds of thousands in attendance is like the most addictive of drugs to what is becoming the vast intermountain regional CSA core of SLC. The intertwined tentacles of that symbiotic relationship between the arena and the growing financial interests of dozens of major developers are only accelerating as downtown continues its historic expansion. All parties heavily invested in the Salt Lake City core have way too much to lose by letting the NBA arena vacate downtown.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by delts145

While it's fun to speculate as to when and where with the NFL, MLB, and NHL there are too many possible variables involved at this point to predict a factual outcome. However, let's put to rest the idea that the Jazz/NBA Arena will locate away from downtown and into the suburbs. Literally, billions of dollars of development have been poured into the downtown Salt Lake market over the past 10 to 20 years and this is only accelerating. Those investments such as City Creek, numerous hotels, small businesses, huge residential buildup, and even Temple Square upgrades all have a definite symbiotic tie-in to the constant flow of neighboring NBA games and the large flow of dependable traffic dollars that the Jazz and other scheduled events generate. What major power brokers be they political, business or ecclesiastical would want one of downtown's most prolific revenue generators to vacate and kill the 500lb golden goose? Way too much regular NBA seasonal financial influence is generated and spread out over downtown on so many fronts at this point to throw it all away to suburban downtown wannabes that will remain minor players for decades to come. That NBA Arena with its constant flow of 41-plus games and hundreds of thousands in attendance is like the most addictive of drugs to what is becoming the vast intermountain regional CSA core of SLC. The intertwined tentacles of that symbiotic relationship between the arena and the growing financial interests of dozens of major developers are only accelerating as downtown continues its historic expansion. All parties heavily invested in the Salt Lake City core have way too much to lose by letting the NBA arena vacate downtown.

SLC doesn’t ultimately get to decide. The owner of the jazz and the NBA do. They want to put buts in seats. Eventually they are going to want a bigger arena in an area that is more convenient for people so that they are more likely to attend. If it comes down to the NBA pulling out of down town salt lake or pulling out of Utah all together… they will be allowed to leave down town.

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by delts145

While it's fun to speculate as to when and where with the NFL, MLB, and NHL there are too many possible variables involved at this point to predict a factual outcome. However, let's put to rest the idea that the Jazz/NBA Arena will locate away from downtown and into the suburbs. Literally, billions of dollars of development have been poured into the downtown Salt Lake market over the past 10 to 20 years and this is only accelerating. Those investments such as City Creek, numerous hotels, small businesses, huge residential buildup, and even Temple Square upgrades all have a definite symbiotic tie-in to the constant flow of neighboring NBA games and the large flow of dependable traffic dollars that the Jazz and other scheduled events generate. What major power brokers be they political, business or ecclesiastical would want one of downtown's most prolific revenue generators to vacate and kill the 500lb golden goose? Way too much regular NBA seasonal financial influence is generated and spread out over downtown on so many fronts at this point to throw it all away to suburban downtown wannabes that will remain minor players for decades to come. That NBA Arena with its constant seasonal flow of 41-plus games and hundreds of thousands in attendance is like the most addictive of drugs to what is becoming the vast intermountain regional CSA core of SLC. The intertwined tentacles of that symbiotic relationship between the arena and the growing financial interests of dozens of major developers are only accelerating as downtown continues its historic expansion. All parties heavily invested in the Salt Lake City core have way too much to lose by letting the NBA arena vacate downtown.

I was back in town last night and went to the Jazz/Heat game (ouch). For all of you who live out of state like me and haven’t seen downtown in awhile, you really need to. I walked City Creek/Hyatt Regency/West Quarter/Arena/Paperbox/Gateway and couldn’t believe how nice it was compared to what that area used to be. West Quarter will soon be the coolest place in town. It’s REALLY nice and people have already moved into some of the apartments.

The symbiosis between that arena, hotels, and new housing in that area give it so much life. Wish I could have explored longer.

[rockies]

I just moved near vivint and now I'm most excited for (in addition to west qtr) a fully built out greektown. Vivint, gateway, main, and pioneer park would be pretty seamlessly connected by those two developments

I think Pierpont ave should extend through greektown though at least in some kind of pedestrian capacity

[Blah_Amazing]

https://citizenportal.slcgov.com/Citizen...09&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=

Address: 263 Charles Lindbergh Drive

The basics: Includes a 4 floor 93 room Holiday Inn Express & Suites and a 4 floor 84 room Candlewood Suites.

Holiday Inn Express & Suites


Candlewood Suites

[Blah_Amazing]

https://citizenportal.slcgov.com/Citizen...05&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=

Address: 1546 S 300 W

Basics: 407 studio/1-bedroom residential units. 507 parking spaces. 2.37 acres.

Floor Plans:

Elevations:

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

SLC doesn’t ultimately get to decide. The owner of the jazz and the NBA do. They want to put buts in seats. Eventually they are going to want a bigger arena in an area that is more convenient for people so that they are more likely to attend. If it comes down to the NBA pulling out of down town salt lake or pulling out of Utah all together… they will be allowed to leave down town.

I'm gonna break things down here because I feel there's a lot of inconsistencies.

1. Utah has rarely ever struggled with NBA attendance, even in down years. Yes, some years are better than others but take the 2003-2004 season, the year after Stockton and Malone left the franchise. Utah was 6th league-wide. Currently, Utah is 13th - but a good reason for that is the arena is smaller today than it was in those days. In terms of percent of capacity, the Jazz are at 99%, which puts them in the top-ten.

So, there is no evidence whatsoever that Utah's current location is hurting attendance or that they'd draw more fans somewhere else in the valley.

In fact, downtown is probably still the easiest place to get in and out of anywhere on the Wasatch Front.

2. The NBA has, especially the last 20 or so years, really pushed for teams to build their arenas downtown because of how easily accessible they are and how they can really become part of the community. More than any of the professional leagues, the NBA has emphasized community outreach - especially with a huge chunk of its fan base being inner-city. Granted, Salt Lake isn't know for its urban population but it still exists. The reality is, every team who has built a new arena lately, or is planning on building a new arena, has either stayed in their city's urban core - or moved to their urban core.

The Warriors relocated from Oakland to downtown San Francisco in 2019. The Bucks literally moved a block north of their old arena in downtown Milwaukee. The Pistons relocated from suburban Auburn Hills to downtown Detroit in 2017. The Kings moved from suburban, almost rural Sacramento to downtown Sacramento in 2016. The Sixers are relocating downtown after having spent the entire modern history of the franchise outside it.

The only team that is ditching downtown is the Clippers - and to be honest, there's already an arena in downtown LA (which brought both teams to downtown for the first time after playing far from it) that the Clippers were sharing, so, this gets them their own arena. An exception to the rule, really.

In the end, there is no evidence the current location of the Viv is hurting the Jazz when it comes to drawing fans. In fact, it probably helps because, again, it's so easily accessible.

[bob rulz]

I also don't know why the Jazz would feel the need to have a bigger arena. Vivint is middle of the road as far as arena size goes, and newer arenas have actually trended slightly smaller, I'm guessing to accommodate more amenities/luxury suites. The new Bucks arena is the 3rd-smallest, the Kings arena the 4th-smallest, the Nets arena the 5th-smallest. Even the new Warriors arena (with their huge fanbase) is smaller than Vivint. The only new arena that's on the larger size in terms of number of seats is the Pistons arena (4th largest). I don't think arena size is really a significant factor.

I agree that the Jazz have no reason or incentive to move away from downtown. I think it would be a huge mistake and I'd be surprised if the new ownership didn't realize that.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I also don't know why the Jazz would feel the need to have a bigger arena. Vivint is middle of the road as far as arena size goes, and newer arenas have actually trended slightly smaller, I'm guessing to accommodate more amenities/luxury suites. The new Bucks arena is the 3rd-smallest, the Kings arena the 4th-smallest, the Nets arena the 5th-smallest. Even the new Warriors arena (with their huge fanbase) is smaller than Vivint. The only new arena that's on the larger size in terms of number of seats is the Pistons arena (4th largest). I don't think arena size is really a significant factor.

I agree that the Jazz have no reason or incentive to move away from downtown. I think it would be a huge mistake and I'd be surprised if the new ownership didn't realize that.

I also think the era of 20,000 seat NBA arenas is mostly over and has been for a while.

Again, looking at the most recent arenas, you see an actual subtraction in seats:

The Warriors moved from Oracle Arena, which sat 19,596, to Chase Center, which seats 18,064, which is actually smaller than the Viv.

The Bucks moved from the Bradley Center, which sat 18,717, to Fiserv Forum, which seats 17,500 (again, smaller than the Viv).

The Pistons moved from the Palace at Auburn Hills, which sat 22,076, to Little Caesars Arena, which seats 20,332 (still one of the larger arenas in the NBA, tho).

Golden 1 Center in Sacramento seats 17,583, which is smaller than the Viv and only marginally bigger than ARCO Arena, where the Kings used to play (that sat 17,317).

The Nets moved from the Izod Center, which sat 20,049, to Barclays Center in Brooklyn, which seats 17,732.

You get the point.

Of all the arenas that opened this century (12 total), just three seat more than 19,000 fans (The Viv's old capacity was 19,911). Only one seats more than 20,000 fans (Detroit's). The rest seat anywhere between 17,000 and 18,846.

It's the older arenas, the ones that opened in the 90s, that tend to seat more than 19,000 fans. In fact, of the arenas that seat 19,000 or more fans, ten of 'em were built in the 90s when NBA arena size WAS rapidly expanding. But it's clear they've deescalated capacity lately. Even Phoenix downsized their arena, which opened a year after the Delta Center. It used to seat over 19,000 fans - now it's the second smallest in the NBA at 17,071.

The Sixers new arena is expected to seat 18,500 (or around what the Viv seats), and that'll be down from 20,478 their current arena seats (second largest in the NBA currently). The Clippers new arena will seat 18,000.

So, even if the Jazz do decide to build a new arena, which is possible in the next 20 years as, even with its renovations, the Viv is still a 30 year old arena, it's highly unlikely their capacity will be much bigger than it is now - and we know the Jazz draw well in their current arena anyway, so...

In fact, arenas across the board are getting smaller. College football teams are largely downsizing (outside pockets in the SEC), MLB stadiums built today are much smaller than the stadiums built 30 years ago and so are NFL stadiums.

Of the NFL stadiums that seat more than 70,000 fans (11), only five were built this century.

The ten smallest NFL stadiums? Seven were built this century and an eighth (Chicago) was renovated heavily this century.

Future stadiums, for Buffalo and Tennessee, will also see a reduction in capacity. The Bills play in a 71,608 seat stadium and their new proposed stadium will seat 62,000 if/when it's built. The Titans play in a 69,143 seat stadium and their proposed new stadium will seat 60,000.

[Blah_Amazing]

https://citizenportal.slcgov.com/Citizen...01&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=

Address: 51 N Chicago

The Basics: 6 floors. 137 residential units.

Project Summary (from Developer):
51 North Chicago Street is a proposed 137-unit apartment project located
adjacent near the intersection of Chicago Street and North Temple. It will be one building on four consolidated parcels equivalent to 0.56 acres. The building will include Studios, 1 Bedroom, and 2 Bedroom units. This project will replace four existing single family detached homes.

Floor Plans & Elevations:

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Comrade

I also think the era of 20,000 seat NBA arenas is mostly over and has been for a while.

Again, looking at the most recent arenas, you see an actual subtraction in seats:

The Warriors moved from Oracle Arena, which sat 19,596, to Chase Center, which seats 18,064, which is actually smaller than the Viv.

The Bucks moved from the Bradley Center, which sat 18,717, to Fiserv Forum, which seats 17,500 (again, smaller than the Viv).

The Pistons moved from the Palace at Auburn Hills, which sat 22,076, to Little Caesars Arena, which seats 20,332 (still one of the larger arenas in the NBA, tho).

Golden 1 Center in Sacramento seats 17,583, which is smaller than the Viv and only marginally bigger than ARCO Arena, where the Kings used to play (that sat 17,317).

The Nets moved from the Izod Center, which sat 20,049, to Barclays Center in Brooklyn, which seats 17,732.

You get the point.

Of all the arenas that opened this century (12 total), just three seat more than 19,000 fans (The Viv's old capacity was 19,911). Only one seats more than 20,000 fans (Detroit's). The rest seat anywhere between 17,000 and 18,846.

It's the older arenas, the ones that opened in the 90s, that tend to seat more than 19,000 fans. In fact, of the arenas that seat 19,000 or more fans, ten of 'em were built in the 90s when NBA arena size WAS rapidly expanding. But it's clear they've deescalated capacity lately. Even Phoenix downsized their arena, which opened a year after the Delta Center. It used to seat over 19,000 fans - now it's the second smallest in the NBA at 17,071.

The Sixers new arena is expected to seat 18,500 (or around what the Viv seats), and that'll be down from 20,478 their current arena seats (second largest in the NBA currently). The Clippers new arena will seat 18,000.

So, even if the Jazz do decide to build a new arena, which is possible in the next 20 years as, even with its renovations, the Viv is still a 30 year old arena, it's highly unlikely their capacity will be much bigger than it is now - and we know the Jazz draw well in their current arena anyway, so...

In fact, arenas across the board are getting smaller. College football teams are largely downsizing (outside pockets in the SEC), MLB stadiums built today are much smaller than the stadiums built 30 years ago and so are NFL stadiums.

Of the NFL stadiums that seat more than 70,000 fans (11), only five were built this century.

The ten smallest NFL stadiums? Seven were built this century and an eighth (Chicago) was renovated heavily this century.

Future stadiums, for Buffalo and Tennessee, will also see a reduction in capacity. The Bills play in a 71,608 seat stadium and their new proposed stadium will seat 62,000 if/when it's built. The Titans play in a 69,143 seat stadium and their proposed new stadium will seat 60,000.

I’m most familiar with the Suns changes, they did a $250M renovation which did decrease seating capacity a bit to add other amenities like large open spaces facing into the arena floor, the new Footprint Center feels like an upgrade from economy to first class on a flight. I think they also added more high end seating areas which have exclusive bar and food access, I think it’s called the Lexus level. So while the seating capacity is slightly smaller I’m sure they’re making more per game/per attendee with everything they’ve added. It’s a much nicer experience now.

Any plans or discussions on major renovation at the Viv?

[taboubak]

[QUOTE=locolife;9829871]I’m most familiar with the Suns changes, they did a $250M renovation which did decrease seating capacity a bit to add other amenities like large open spaces facing into the arena floor, the new Footprint Center feels like an upgrade from economy to first class on a flight. I think they also added more high end seating areas which have exclusive bar and food access, I think it’s called the Lexus level. So while the seating capacity is slightly smaller I’m sure they’re making more per game/per attendee with everything they’ve added. It’s a much nicer experience now.

Any plans or discussions on major renovation at the Viv?

Thw Viv just underwent a 100 plus million dollar renovation a few years ago and it's facilities are pretty top of the line now. Not sure what updates you are hoping to see. The renovation they did helped them win the ALL Star game that is set for next month.