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  #14681  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 8:29 PM
Enemy4thePeople Enemy4thePeople is offline
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Just to get a quick sense of an NFL stadium in the Power District, here is SoFi Stadium in that area.
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  #14682  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 8:37 PM
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  #14683  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 8:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Enemy4thePeople View Post
Just to get a quick sense of an NFL stadium in the Power District, here is SoFi Stadium in that area.
no pic?
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  #14684  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 8:42 PM
Enemy4thePeople Enemy4thePeople is offline
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no pic?
Hmm. I'm seeing it on my end. I guess I can't host via Google Drive.
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  #14685  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 8:56 PM
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What do the different colors mean? I can assume white is under construction and grey is proposed but what is the dark grey?
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  #14686  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 9:15 PM
Enemy4thePeople Enemy4thePeople is offline
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Let me try again:
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  #14687  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 9:18 PM
Enemy4thePeople Enemy4thePeople is offline
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And here was the earlier attempt:
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  #14688  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 2:45 AM
UtahBison UtahBison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
Oh man, I love these massings, Orlando! Thanks for doing them!

I am a big fan of the push for height further south that we are seeing in these proposals. Let's hope they get built and more keep coming!

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Originally Posted by Enemy4thePeople View Post
And here was the earlier attempt:
Woah, the detail in this massing is incredible! Great job! Would be fun to see them at a lower angle so we could see the height variations.
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  #14689  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 4:21 AM
Utah_Dave Utah_Dave is offline
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Thanks Orlando. The Dark Grey building looks like the APS site? Was this for fun or do you have a little inside knowledge?

Correction, looks like the 1st and main lot.

Thanks again
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  #14690  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 3:10 PM
Enemy4thePeople Enemy4thePeople is offline
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Woah, the detail in this massing is incredible! Great job! Would be fun to see them at a lower angle so we could see the height variations.
Thanks. Here's a lower aerial.


This is only a very small section of my overall city model.



A lot of the stuff here, especially south of 700 S is just OSM masses. I add detail as needed when I work on projects in an area, which has been mostly downtown. Though some of the detail in a few of the downtown buildings are from old defunct SketchUp Warehouse models by some guy named em'ach or something like that.

Sometimes, I like to work on stuff on my own, to see what could work in an underutilized site, and then I detail those areas, and put special care into architecturally significant buildings.



Like the brutalist social housing in the foreground in the above pic. As you can imagine, it takes a while, and as things progress I just get further and further behind. The west side and the Granary hasn't been updated in years and I'm way behind there.

And now, after eleven years of casually working on this model, I'm finally getting to the point where I'm going to add elevation, which will be a chore, because I'm trying to make sure it's 3D printable.
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  #14691  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 3:55 PM
locolife locolife is offline
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Oh I love me some Vegas. Not because of it new shiny projects. But because of the town and the city. It has amazing access to wilderness and is in a great location. But your statement that the water issues they face will be solved is, er, optimistic. Mead is nearing dead pool. It's bleak. Every large scale development you list is in hospitality. Their economy is growing in the right directions but it's a one trick pony. Salt Lake CSA economy is a real economy. Super diverse. We are on the tail end of a massive asset bubble and I'd be surprised if any number of those projects actually happen or don't retrade in Chapter 11. This is the Vegas way. Hold on to your hat. So I'll stick by my prediction.
I like both aspects of Vegas, from the incredible shows and cool buildings that are constantly changing, the epic outdoor scenery like Red Rocks and Mt. Charleston. And yes, their economy is based on tourism, always have been and always will be. But they've built a world class entertainment economy; people can gamble almost anywhere now (well not in Utah but most places) and they still choose to fly/drive to Vegas and pay the prices for what it offers. I know the area really well, almost moved there. But predictions about it's demise have been happening since the city was created, it's survived COVID-19, countless recessions, the rise of online gambling, and the housing crisis. I'm 100% sure Vegas will survive this as well.

From an economy standpoint I agree SLC has a much more well rounded approach but it will also be impacted by an economic slow-down. Tech companies are not immune to recessions and when it comes to massive bubbles I see tech company stocks right up there on assets that will be corrected too.

The water issues impacting Lake Mead are the same as what is happening in Salt Lake. The west is growing more arid, so Vegas will go the way SLC goes in this regard. But the lower basin states do have proximity to ocean water as an advantage which SLC doesn't have. The plan for the lower basin is reduction in water use, already happening, along with expediting alternative sources, like Desalinization in Mexico to water the fields of Yuma/Central Valley/Imperial Valley. It's not a Vegas, Arizona or California problem it's a national problem, a huge part of the country's food supply comes from the water in Lake Mead. Most or even a large share of that water does not go to Vegas or any cities in the Southwest. You can read up more here if you want but Lake Mead isn't a lost cause, less water will leave the lake beginning right now. More farms will be furloughed and this will continue until the lake stabilizes. This isn't me talking or predicting anything, cuts in deliveries have already been mandated by the feds.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc...ion-colorado-river-dwindles/69745907007/

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/16/us/colora...ake-mead-negotiations-climate/index.html
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  #14692  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 4:06 PM
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delts145 delts145 is offline
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Originally Posted by Marvland View Post
Oh I love me some Vegas. Not because of it new shiny projects. But because of the town and the city. It has amazing access to wilderness and is in a great location. But your statement that the water issues they face will be solved is, er, optimistic. Mead is nearing dead pool. It's bleak. Every large scale development you list is in hospitality. Their economy is growing in the right directions but it's a one trick pony. Salt Lake CSA economy is a real economy. Super diverse. We are on the tail end of a massive asset bubble and I'd be surprised if any number of those projects actually happen or don't retrade in Chapter 11. This is the Vegas way. Hold on to your hat. So I'll stick by my prediction.
Much of what you're saying is true Marv, and I'm with you on loving Vegas. While the Vegas economy is not nearly as diverse as the Wasatch Front or the Front Range it has made some notable progress in the past few years. Much of that progress is due to Vegas being the number one city for businesses fleeing California and reestablishing themselves elsewhere. Definitely, Vegas is still weighted too much toward the hospitality side, but its bust cycle will not be as catastrophic as was previously experienced in the great recession.

As far as the four corner states and especially Vegas and So. Cal. agriculture becoming a Deadpool that remains to be seen. The emergency alarms are sounding, but for right now it would seem that the Heavens and Mother Nature are giving us a bit of a reprieve. Hopefully, the public will keep up the pressure on politicians to correct the severe lack of water conservation, capture, and storage, with an emphasis on capture and storage. The time has passed when we can solely conserve our way out of the drought cycle mess we have allowed to creep up on us.

Edit: Just now reading Locolife's post, which I very much agree with. A great deal of the immediate problem resides with Southern California using far more of the Colorado River than was historically allowed by Federal mandate. For several decades now California has refused to sensibly address its serious lack of water infrastructure development. Instead, it has relied on using far more than its share of the Colorado. Hopefully, the latest rounds of Federal mandates will force California to step up its infrastructure development and realign the Colorado River usage back to its original intentions. It would only be a temporary solution given the hyper-growth of States like Utah, Colorado, and Arizona. Even so, it would definitely give Metros like the Wasatch Front, the Front Range, and the Southwest some breathing room. While in some respects I'm not a big Romney fan, I do suspect that he will be key in working this issue out with the current surrounding state powers that be. If he can be instrumental in doing that, along with spurring the salvation of the Great Salt Lake, and further key water capture and storage capability then he'll definitely gain my support in the future.

Something that a lot of you have probably noticed that has come to the forefront over the past 48 hours is the new COVID death spread and panic occuring in China. Maybe at this point I'm being a little paranoid having gone through the last outbreak here in somewhat paranoid Los Angeles. However, already, serious flight restrictions are being enacted internationally, with promises of even further shutdowns. Also, States such as California are in discussions of tight public indoor mask mandates and quite possibly another round of debilitating restrictions. If we're in for another pandemic I hope states like Utah will have learned from the last positive and negative actions and will weather the storm as a go-to island of common sense relief and not over-reaction shutdown. If Utah can once again remain a comparative haven I think many sectors of its infrastructure and real estate development will continue to thrive even during the upcoming challenges.

Last edited by delts145; Dec 30, 2022 at 4:25 PM.
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  #14693  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 4:33 PM
Utah_Dave Utah_Dave is offline
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That’s pretty incredible work Enemy4thepeople! You say you have been working on that 10 years now? I’m glad you found this forum and were able to share it. How accurate would you say the heights and elevations are? If you get a few minutes there is a camera angle that shows the progress of the Astra tower on the SLC development Reddit thread. If you have the ability, could you show the Astra tower from that view point?

Anyway, thanks for sharing!
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  #14694  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 4:37 PM
locolife locolife is offline
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Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
Much of what you're saying is true Marv, and I'm with you on loving Vegas. While the Vegas economy is not nearly as diverse as the Wasatch Front or the Front Range it has made some notable progress in the past few years. Much of that progress is due to Vegas being the number one city for businesses fleeing California and reestablishing themselves elsewhere. Definitely, Vegas is still weighted too much toward the hospitality side, but its bust cycle will not be as catastrophic as was previously experienced in the great recession.

As far as the four corner states and especially Vegas and So. Cal. agriculture becoming a Deadpool that remains to be seen. The emergency alarms are sounding, but for right now it would seem that the Heavens and Mother Nature are giving us a bit of a reprieve. Hopefully, the public will keep up the pressure on politicians to correct the severe lack of water conservation, capture, and storage, with an emphasis on capture and storage. The time has passed when we can solely conserve our way out of the drought cycle mess we have allowed to creep up on us.

Edit: Just now reading Locolife's post, which I very much agree with. A great deal of the immediate problem resides with Southern California using far more of the Colorado River than was historically allowed by Federal mandate. For several decades now California has refused to sensibly address its serious lack of water infrastructure development. Instead, it has relied on using far more than its share of the Colorado. Hopefully, the latest rounds of Federal mandates will force California to step up its infrastructure development and realign the Colorado River usage back to its original intentions. It would only be a temporary solution given the hyper-growth of States like Utah, Colorado, and Arizona. Even so, it would definitely give Metros like the Wasatch Front, the Front Range, and the Southwest some breathing room. While in some respects I'm not a big Romney fan, I do suspect that he will be key in working this issue out with the current surrounding state powers that be. If he can be instrumental in doing that, along with spurring the salvation of the Great Salt Lake, and further key water capture and storage capability then he'll definitely gain my support in the future.

Something that a lot of you have probably noticed that has come to the forefront over the past 48 hours is the new COVID death spread and panic occuring in China. Maybe at this point I'm being a little paranoid having gone through the last outbreak here in somewhat paranoid Los Angeles. However, already, serious flight restrictions are being enacted internationally, with promises of even further shutdowns. Also, States such as California are in discussions of tight public indoor mask mandates and quite possibly another round of debilitating restrictions. If we're in for another pandemic I hope states like Utah will have learned from the last positive and negative actions and will weather the storm as a go-to island of common sense relief and not over-reaction shutdown. If Utah can once again remain a comparative haven I think many sectors of its infrastructure and real estate development will continue to thrive even during the upcoming challenges.
I think we posted at the same time, it's interesting to see the perspective of another lower basin resident that also has ties to Utah. We should have always been a lot smarter with water use in the west and I can't help but wonder why it's taken this long for mandated restrictions in water deliveries to take place, I've heard it was part of the original agreement between the states but clearly the supply has permanently changed so taking action much more proactively would make sense to me.

Very interesting on the COVID issues rising back up in China. Just looked into this more now after reading your post.
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  #14695  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 4:38 PM
locolife locolife is offline
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Originally Posted by Enemy4thePeople View Post
Thanks. Here's a lower aerial.


This is only a very small section of my overall city model.



A lot of the stuff here, especially south of 700 S is just OSM masses. I add detail as needed when I work on projects in an area, which has been mostly downtown. Though some of the detail in a few of the downtown buildings are from old defunct SketchUp Warehouse models by some guy named em'ach or something like that.

Sometimes, I like to work on stuff on my own, to see what could work in an underutilized site, and then I detail those areas, and put special care into architecturally significant buildings.



Like the brutalist social housing in the foreground in the above pic. As you can imagine, it takes a while, and as things progress I just get further and further behind. The west side and the Granary hasn't been updated in years and I'm way behind there.

And now, after eleven years of casually working on this model, I'm finally getting to the point where I'm going to add elevation, which will be a chore, because I'm trying to make sure it's 3D printable.
Really cool, I can't imagine how many hours go into this. Have you set up in a way where you could build a similar model for other cities fairly easily?
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  #14696  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 5:00 PM
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SLCHenry SLCHenry is offline
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Originally Posted by Utah_Dave View Post
Thanks Orlando. The Dark Grey building looks like the APS site? Was this for fun or do you have a little inside knowledge?

Correction, looks like the 1st and main lot.

Thanks again
Are there plans for a building at that lot? It would be the prime location for a 500+ footer.
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  #14697  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 5:19 PM
ucsbgaucho ucsbgaucho is offline
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Originally Posted by Enemy4thePeople View Post
Let me try again:
We wouldn't be getting a SoFi-sized stadium here, it would be more like the Raiders stadium. First, the Rams owner is the wealthiest in the league, that stadium cost $5 billion to build, whereas the Raiders stadium was $1.9 billion.

And we won't be getting an NFL team here anyway, baseball or hockey would be most likely if anything.
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  #14698  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 5:38 PM
locolife locolife is offline
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Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho View Post
We wouldn't be getting a SoFi-sized stadium here, it would be more like the Raiders stadium. First, the Rams owner is the wealthiest in the league, that stadium cost $5 billion to build, whereas the Raiders stadium was $1.9 billion.

And we won't be getting an NFL team here anyway, baseball or hockey would be most likely if anything.
True, those seem more likely than the NFL but I'm not holding my breath for anything.
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  #14699  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 5:42 PM
Enemy4thePeople Enemy4thePeople is offline
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Originally Posted by Utah_Dave View Post
How accurate would you say the heights and elevations are? If you get a few minutes there is a camera angle that shows the progress of the Astra tower on the SLC development Reddit thread. If you have the ability, could you show the Astra tower from that view point?
If I have any kind of drawing, with or without dimensions, I try to match those as much as possible. Or in lieu of that, if I can find any information about building heights online, I'll use that (which was how I found forums like this one). Otherwise, I just consider typical floor to floor for the construction/product type and go from there.

I'm not familiar with Reddit. I mean I know what it is, but I haven't ever really interacted with it, so I don't know the tread you're referring to and a quick search didn't bring up anything that obviously struck me as what you might be referring to. If you can give me a link, I'll take a look.

And locolife, no, I started this back when Google still owned SketchUp and their 3D Warehouse could create context models fairly quickly and easily. Since Trimble bought it, that all broke. Open Street Map data is tolerable but woefully inadequate, at least for Salt Lake. So it's really just a tedious process of going block by block and modeling according to Google Maps, Street View, Salt Lake plat maps, and the County Assessor's parcel descriptions.

ucsbguacho, yeah, I didn't expect Salt Lake would get anything like SoFi, but it does present the "worst case scenario" as far as site size and parking.
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  #14700  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2022, 7:03 PM
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Marvland Marvland is offline
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Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
Much of what you're saying is true Marv, and I'm with you on loving Vegas. While the Vegas economy is not nearly as diverse as the Wasatch Front or the Front Range it has made some notable progress in the past few years. Much of that progress is due to Vegas being the number one city for businesses fleeing California and reestablishing themselves elsewhere. Definitely, Vegas is still weighted too much toward the hospitality side, but its bust cycle will not be as catastrophic as was previously experienced in the great recession.

++++

Edit: Just now reading Locolife's post, which I very much agree with. A great deal of the immediate problem resides with Southern California using far more of the Colorado River than was historically allowed by Federal mandate. For several decades now California has refused to sensibly address its serious lack of water infrastructure development. Instead, it has relied on using far more than its share of the Colorado. Hopefully, the latest rounds of Federal mandates will force California to step up its infrastructure development and realign the Colorado River usage back to its original intentions. It would only be a temporary solution given the hyper-growth of States like Utah, Colorado, and Arizona. Even so, it would definitely give Metros like the Wasatch Front, the Front Range, and the Southwest some breathing room. While in some respects I'm not a big Romney fan, I do suspect that he will be key in working this issue out with the current surrounding state powers that be. If he can be instrumental in doing that, along with spurring the salvation of the Great Salt Lake, and further key water capture and storage capability then he'll definitely gain my support in the future.
Great points Delts and Locolife. I don't fall inline with the common narrative that desert cities like Phoenix and Vegas "shouldn't exist" as they are much better with water conservation than upbasin states, specifically Utah. They will adapt and re-invent themselves. But they also require huge amounts of water draw, but heck, if Dubai can exist then these cities can exist. But it will get draconian. Any major pumping operation whether it be desalination/distribution etc will require huge amounts of resources and power. I'd say that any of those solutions will need nuclear power in the coastal states to make happen, which I give a low probability. With proposals like the Powell Pipeline (thankfully dead for now because of low water levels) and Southern Nevada Water Authority’s “Groundwater Development Project" to vampire water out of the northern Great Basin, we are seeing the desperation right now. An amazing book that I cannot recommend enough is Marc Reisner's Cadillac Desert. Almost every prophecy he predicted is happening now from the drying up of the Ogalala aquifer under Texas and Oklahoma to the drying up of groundwater in the Central Valley, to the likely epic western droughts etc. It's also a great read, particularly the sections on the Owen's Valley water wars, Mulholland's Folly and one of the best narratives of John Wesley Powell's journeys down the Colorado and his later days in Washington. Great read.

EDITED FOR MANGLED SYNTAX

Last edited by Marvland; Dec 31, 2022 at 8:20 PM.
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