Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by MountainView

It must be Farnborough International Airshow time!

What is interesting is that the job postings for the E2 aircraft are all YYZ-based with other locations "TBC" (to be confirmed). This has not changed since their initial announcement of this aircraft type order.

Super excited about this news about Porter increasing their potential orders. In terms of the job postings, remember that Porter's head office is in Toronto, so most of those posting are office based careers. In terms of the YYZ comment, they said "The first delivery and entry into service out of Toronto Pearson is scheduled for later this year. More details to come." Meaning all we know now is that the first flight will be from YYZ which I don't think anyone doubted from the beginning. They will announce soon, I still have high hopes for YOW!

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Super excited about this news about Porter increasing their potential orders. In terms of the job postings, remember that Porter's head office is in Toronto, so most of those posting are office based careers. In terms of the YYZ comment, they said "The first delivery and entry into service out of Toronto Pearson is scheduled for later this year. More details to come." Meaning all we know now is that the first flight will be from YYZ which I don't think anyone doubted from the beginning. They will announce soon, I still have high hopes for YOW!

Apologies, I meant to write that the E2 pilot and first officer jobs are all YYZ based right now. I'm sure YOW will get some routes; YVR and YYC are good bets for next summer.

If they hurry their act up, I'm sure they can cash in on some YYZ-Florida routes for this winter. I image that's what their launch routes will be since that can survive on O&D.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by MountainView

If they hurry their act up, I'm sure they can cash in on some YYZ-Florida routes for this winter. I image that's what their launch routes will be since that can survive on O&D.

The problem with Porter starting with YYZ-Florida is that they don't have any connecting flights to YYZ (unless they have a shuttle from YTZ) so it would be exclusively origin-destination passengers on route that is well served by AC and WS. I might be biased, but the advantage of starting with YOW-Florida is that they presumably will have several connection options, plus it is a route that isn't being served well by AC or WS.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The problem with Porter starting with YYZ-Florida is that they don't have any connecting flights to YYZ (unless they have a shuttle from YTZ) so it would be exclusively origin-destination passengers on route that is well served by AC and WS. I might be biased, but the advantage of starting with YOW-Florida is that they presumably will have several connection options, plus it is a route that isn't being served well by AC or WS.

These are my thoughts as well. I can't see Porter making connections between Billy Bishop and Pearson. It's too inconvenient considering the competition has same terminal connections at YYZ. Ottawa would have the largest connecting traffic with St. John's, Halifax, Moncton, and Fredericton traffic stopping in YOW. Also I did see job postings in YOW on the Porter website earlier this year for flight attendants plus a general post for direct entry captain, not just for YYZ. So we'll see! This is starting to get super exciting.

[Stacmon]

Definitely an exciting development and I was reassured to see that they will be announcing something "soon" (would have preferred it to be "next week" or "next month" but the new order seems to really commit them).

A lot of good points about YOW serving as a hub for Atlantic-based flights onward to other parts or North America like Florida. Originally I was thinking of Porter's possible Ottawa originating flights to be intended as point to point non-stop flights to serve the local market (e.g., imagine an Ottawa-Las Vegas or Ottawa-Los Angeles/San Francisco route).

Instead, you guys have got me dreaming bigger now, and I feel like given the split of flights Porter had between YYZ and YTZ, they may truly make Ottawa a serious hub for travel from Eastern Canada and as a consequence give us more flights from Ottawa that locals have been desperate for (compared to airports like Calgary and Edmonton), than we could have expected under other circumstances!

I pray our hopes aren't ultimately dashed, but I feel if we got even one flight to the U.S. Southwest/California out of this as a non-stop option, I would see it as a victory!

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

These are my thoughts as well. I can't see Porter making connections between Billy Bishop and Pearson. It's too inconvenient considering the competition has same terminal connections at YYZ. Ottawa would have the largest connecting traffic with St. John's, Halifax, Moncton, and Fredericton traffic stopping in YOW. Also I did see job postings in YOW on the Porter website earlier this year for flight attendants plus a general post for direct entry captain, not just for YYZ. So we'll see! This is starting to get super exciting.

The YOW F/A call-out isn’t a surprise as we’ve been a PD F/A base for a long time along with YQT and YHZ besides YTZ. But surely there will be a lot more in the coming years.

Wednesday’s departure count: 58

[Dominion301]

Sunwing are adding a new destination out of YOW this winter: Cayo Largo, Cuba / CYO, which is on one of Cuba's outer islands. Looking on wikipedia and the airport until now has only had two airlines and two destination, including TS to YUL.

WG also list YHZ, YQB, YUL and YYZ service this winter for CYO.


https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress.c...l-now-offered-in-canada-through-sunwing/

Edit: YYZ and YUL were flown by WG pre-pandemic but the other three including YOW are new.

[Dominion301]

YOW's June pax stats are out. YOW hit 70.9% of 2019 traffic levels in May. This is +10.4% vs May, but still lags well behind other airports thanks to a lack of capacity:

Sector / Jun-21 / Jun-22 / % Change
Dom: 44,837 / 283,120 / +531.4%
TB: 0 / 14,639 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 44,837 / 297,759 / +564.1%

Sector / YTD 2021 / YTD 2022 / % Change
Dom: 162,263 / 1,079,918 / +565.5%
TB: 0 / 63,204 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 42,722 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 162,263 / 1,185,844 / 630.8%

Month-Over-Month Change
Sector / May-21 / Jun-21 / % Change
Dom: 247,060 / 283,120 / +14.6%
TB: 15,534 / 14,639 / -5.8%
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 262,594 / 297,759 / +13.4% - the June 2022 pax total is roughly the same as June 1996
Avg/Day: 8,471 / 9,925 / +17.2%

YOW's back over 2 million pax served in the past 12 months:

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2020
Dom: 2,061,605 / +99.8%
TB: 74,446 / -54.4%
Int'l: 58,319 / -65.4%
TTL: 2,194,370 / +60.9% - back up to about 1981 pax traffic levels - but unlike 1981 with zero transatlantic service

[MountainView]

re: the Porter comments

Great discussion so far!

I would argue that YYZ-Florida on Porter does not need any connecting traffic if they were to choose this as a launch route this winter. There is enough O&D from the GTA to fill these planes (my opinion). Will they add a YUL/YOW/YHZ-YYZ E2 to help fill these routes... perhaps. Nothing is stopping them from flying the Q400 into Pearson either.

There is no way they are going to sell connections YTZ-YYZ. No one is going to want to do that, and I bet many people won't even realize they are booking such a connection in the first place.

I am not sure a YOW-Florida would really work in the winter unless it was 2/3 weekly. Again, a lot of the Maritime airports have direct Florida and other sun destination flights throughout the winter months.

I think for YOW to work as a mini-hub, Porter will look to draw traffic from the Maritimes to Western Canada (YYC, YVR) or Western USA (LAS, LAX, SFO as examples). I think many of these routes would be something they would look to launch in Spring 2023 though as intra-Canada demand reduces during the winter months.

I also think they will sell YTZ-YOW-Western North American flights if these routes exist and compete with themselves on any potential YYZ-West flights. Customers can choose what they intend to do.

Two wildcards in my opinion are: YUL and US connecting traffic.

YUL-Florida is a very strong market in the winter and I could see Porter jumping into this as well. A single E2 can fly YUL-MIA-YOW-MIA-YUL in a single day for example.

If Porter chooses to base E2s at YOW or YUL, I wonder if they are interested in capturing any Northeastern US traffic to Western Canada. Examples, BOS-YOW-YYC, EWR-YUL-YVR. They would likely have to choose one airport (YOW or YUL) to do this at, but it could be something interesting for them to consider. It also fills a void out of YOW to places like BOS, and to an extent EWR and IAD (as AC is not currently flying the former and UA is 1x day on the latter). I think this would also be something that could be launched in Summer 2023.

I am not sure on how rapidly their deliveries will be. If they are able to have 10 E2s by Q2 2023, that should lead to some routes out of YOW.

Don't forget YYZ is the centre of the universe so the initial routes have to start there

[chuckr99]

Ground broken this morning at the work site. Noticeable activity still even after 5 pm. Good sign!

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by chuckr99

Ground broken this morning at the work site. Noticeable activity still even after 5 pm. Good sign!

Do you know if this is for an aircraft hangar or Canada Reception Centre?

If the latter, I am surprised there hasn't been a funding announcement from Global Affairs Canada or PWGSC (PSPC / Public Works).

[chuckr99]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Do you know if this is for an aircraft hangar or Canada Reception Centre?

If the latter, I am surprised there hasn't been a funding announcement from Global Affairs Canada or PWGSC (PSPC / Public Works).

From the limited plans I’ve seen, this would be the “private” hangar. I haven’t heard anything new on the CRC yet.

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 66

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 3

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 63

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 4

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by MountainView

re: the Porter comments

Great discussion so far!

I would argue that YYZ-Florida on Porter does not need any connecting traffic if they were to choose this as a launch route this winter. There is enough O&D from the GTA to fill these planes (my opinion). Will they add a YUL/YOW/YHZ-YYZ E2 to help fill these routes... perhaps. Nothing is stopping them from flying the Q400 into Pearson either.

There is no way they are going to sell connections YTZ-YYZ. No one is going to want to do that, and I bet many people won't even realize they are booking such a connection in the first place.

I am not sure a YOW-Florida would really work in the winter unless it was 2/3 weekly. Again, a lot of the Maritime airports have direct Florida and other sun destination flights throughout the winter months.

I think for YOW to work as a mini-hub, Porter will look to draw traffic from the Maritimes to Western Canada (YYC, YVR) or Western USA (LAS, LAX, SFO as examples). I think many of these routes would be something they would look to launch in Spring 2023 though as intra-Canada demand reduces during the winter months.

I also think they will sell YTZ-YOW-Western North American flights if these routes exist and compete with themselves on any potential YYZ-West flights. Customers can choose what they intend to do.

Two wildcards in my opinion are: YUL and US connecting traffic.

YUL-Florida is a very strong market in the winter and I could see Porter jumping into this as well. A single E2 can fly YUL-MIA-YOW-MIA-YUL in a single day for example.

If Porter chooses to base E2s at YOW or YUL, I wonder if they are interested in capturing any Northeastern US traffic to Western Canada. Examples, BOS-YOW-YYC, EWR-YUL-YVR. They would likely have to choose one airport (YOW or YUL) to do this at, but it could be something interesting for them to consider. It also fills a void out of YOW to places like BOS, and to an extent EWR and IAD (as AC is not currently flying the former and UA is 1x day on the latter). I think this would also be something that could be launched in Summer 2023.

I am not sure on how rapidly their deliveries will be. If they are able to have 10 E2s by Q2 2023, that should lead to some routes out of YOW.

Don't forget YYZ is the centre of the universe so the initial routes have to start there

Great thoughts! I agree with everything you said except I do hope you are not right when you said YOW may be a "mini" hub. I'm hoping YOW can prove that we can support their aggressive expansion to more than just being a mini-hub. I may be bias but I think it's doable. With already 4 cities connecting to in YOW (including YTZ), plus the possibility of BOS and ERW new routes (hopefully), they can really make YOW a central hub with YYZ being local o&d. Remember that outside YTZ, YOW has the most passenger traffic with Porter (even more than YUL). Not sure if they will use an E2 to connect us to YYZ, it's possible but not sure if they will. Also note that Porter said the smaller E190 would "create direct routes where connecting is often the only option". That statement for sure is NOT talking about YYZ, because God forbid anyone in Toronto connect anywhere.

About the delivery rate: I read somewhere last year in an article that they are expecting a "quick" delivery of up to 2 aircraft per month. I tried to find that article to back this up but I couldn't.

[rocketphish]

United Airlines expands code-sharing pact with Air Canada

Reuters, Montreal
July 22, 2022 | Published 2 hours ago

United Airlines Holdings Inc and Air Canada on Friday expanded their code-sharing agreement, as the carriers look to accelerate their post-pandemic recovery and cash in on the growing international travel market.

Airlines struggling with rising cost pressures and operational challenges expect improved demand for international travel to help cement their path towards profitability.

Code-sharing allows an airline to sell seats on a flight operated by its partner, so that it can fly passengers to destinations it does not serve.

Under the expanded deal, passengers who search for flights between the United States and Canada on United’s or Air Canada’s websites and apps will find more flight options and more access to each airline’s seat inventory.

The carriers anticipate customers will be able to connect to 46 transborder codeshare destinations in 2022, but it will exclude certain U.S. leisure markets and territories.

“As international travel continues to recover, this expanded partnership will provide an enhanced experience for all transborder travel,” said Patrick Quayle, United’s senior vice president of Global Network Planning and Alliances.

United Airlines on Wednesday posted a lower-than-expected quarterly profit as booming travel demand failed to offset higher operating costs.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business...ines-sign-deal-to-expand-relationship-2/

[Stacmon]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Great thoughts! I agree with everything you said except I do hope you are not right when you said YOW may be a "mini" hub. I'm hoping YOW can prove that we can support their aggressive expansion to more than just being a mini-hub. I may be bias but I think it's doable. With already 4 cities connecting to in YOW (including YTZ), plus the possibility of BOS and ERW new routes (hopefully), they can really make YOW a central hub with YYZ being local o&d. Remember that outside YTZ, YOW has the most passenger traffic with Porter (even more than YUL). Not sure if they will use an E2 to connect us to YYZ, it's possible but not sure if they will. Also note that Porter said the smaller E190 would "create direct routes where connecting is often the only option". That statement for sure is NOT talking about YYZ, because God forbid anyone in Toronto connect anywhere.

About the delivery rate: I read somewhere last year in an article that they are expecting a "quick" delivery of up to 2 aircraft per month. I tried to find that article to back this up but I couldn't.

You made some good arguments here for Ottawa becoming a true hub! I really hope it happens, either for long distance Western flights (e g., San Francisco, LA and/or Las Vegas) or Eastern and Southeastern (e.g., Boston, Atlanta, Florida)!

I don't remember the last time I was so bullish about destination expansion for YOW! I remember the heartbreak of hearing we were close to a Paris route before the pandemic though!

[phil235]

Does anyone know how landing fees compare between YYZ, YOW and YUL? Is there any ability to discount fees to jumpstart an expansion?

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Stacmon

You made some good arguments here for Ottawa becoming a true hub! I really hope it happens, either for long distance Western flights (e g., San Francisco, LA and/or Las Vegas) or Eastern and Southeastern (e.g., Boston, Atlanta, Florida)!

I don't remember the last time I was so bullish about destination expansion for YOW! I remember the heartbreak of hearing we were close to a Paris route before the pandemic though!

No doubt that Paris option would have been from AC. However, now that I know the MAX range can service YOW-LHR, they have no excuse for continuing to ground it. Unless the grounding is because of staff shortages plaguing the industry today. I can't wait for the day a major European airline begins servicing YOW to give AC a run for their money as they continue to cater to YYZ and YUL. Good luck to them continuing to do so with decreased YOW connecting traffic.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by phil235

Does anyone know how landing fees compare between YYZ, YOW and YUL? Is there any ability to discount fees to jumpstart an expansion?

Landing fees are rarely given at posted rates if an airline gives an airport volume.
For example, wanna know what Air Canada and West Jet pay in Landing fee's in Pearson? $0.
They have a annual fee they pay and with that they have unlimited landing, gate access, ramps, over night parking and certain space in airports for check in and lounges etc. For Air Canada it represented something like a 70% discount off of posted rates (pre pandemic).
Lynx is in Terminal 1 in Toronto, how did a ULCC get into T1 in Toronto while Flair is in T3? They Let the GTAA pick its landing spots for a year.

Sure Air France or Emirites will pay full landing fees in Toronto, but Air Canada, West Jet even Transat, Flair won't. If Porter will use Pearson as a HUB they won't either.

Everyone will offer Porter an airline to set up a Hub, Montreal and Toronto will likely be offer a stronger discount since they are bigger airports and the incremental usage won't be a huge change for them. I also belive Porter has already paid Pearson for certain slots (in prime time).