Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I just read an article on my phone at lunch but I can't find it again or online on my laptop but it said that Richmond is going to double-track the single portion of the Canada line and wants an LRT to Steveston. People in Langely in the comments are livid. LOL.

There's a reason I frequently don't read the comments - these people are apparently incapable of critical thinking. This is A) Richmond's wish list and B) for Transport 2050. It's a fantasy of what could happen within the next 30 years. Nothing on it is going to happen overnight (and might never happen) and it's certainly not going to push back plans that have already been committed to.

[Mac Write]

What are Translinks concrete plans for the the next decade? It would be great to have a full detailed post on all the projects that "will" happen by 2030.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

What are Translinks concrete plans for the the next decade? It would be great to have a full detailed post on all the projects that "will" happen by 2030.

https://tenyearvision.translink.ca/Documents/10-year-vision-dashboard.pdf

This is till 2027.

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by officedweller

One of the requirements under the construction agreement was that it be capable of southward extension.
Another requirement was that train routing from YVR to Richmond Brighouse be possible.

If that were true the line wouldn't be built the way it is. They wouldn't accept CoR's demand of Brighouse being single track and platform.

Furthermore, linking YVR to Brighouse is pretty much impossible because there is zero chance you'll be able cut across the runway.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

If that were true the line wouldn't be built the way it is. They wouldn't accept CoR's demand of Brighouse being single track and platform.

Furthermore, linking YVR to Brighouse is pretty much impossible because there is zero chance you'll be able cut across the runway.

Maybe he meant linking YVR to Brighouse via Bridgeport, with the existing tracks?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Maybe he meant linking YVR to Brighouse via Bridgeport, with the existing tracks?

Yup.
From YVR nose into Bridgeport station's south platform and reverse at the switch east of the platform, stop at the north platform, and head out to Brighouse.
From Richmond, reverse at the same switch east of the station.
The basket weave makes that movement much simpler than a similar routing at Lougheed Station.


https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1950181,-123.1279393,491m/data=!3m1!1e3

WRT the single tracking, remember they wanted to single track through the Capstan area as well but then decided against it.
The as-built does not "prevent" extension to the south, even if the single track section is retained.
It may constrain operations, but it does not prevent extension.

[Dengler Avenue]

For that one (single track), one can look to Ottawa’s Trillium Line as a (horrible) example.

[scryer]

Well Richmond really shot itself in the foot with the single-tracking mess, and then they poured salt in the wound without their bus loop upgrades at Brighouse. So I don't feel sorry for them.

Before any extensions happen, Richmond will have to double track (read: properly) their line out to Brighouse. And even then, IMO, Richmond is going to have a tough time trying to prove that the double tracking will benefit the entire region and relieve pressure off of the Canada Line.

[TheTerminalCity]

The APTA finally released their Second Quarter 2019 statistics. For TransLink, it was more of the same: ridership growth that outpaces population growth. Roughly 4% increases across the board and SkyTrain ridership up to 513,700 per day. The fastest grower was West Coast Express (5% year-over-year), which seems fairly close to the pre-Evergreen daily numbers now.

Compared to other Canadian cities, Vancouver's transit ridership growth is similar to Montreal's, and outpaces Calgary, Ottawa, and Edmonton. Meanwhile Toronto's numbers show higher growth but are all over the the board so...

Have a look for yourselves:
https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/2019-Q2-Ridership-APTA.pdf

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by TheTerminalCity

The APTA finally released their Second Quarter 2019 statistics. For TransLink, it was more of the same: ridership growth that outpaces population growth. Roughly 4% increases across the board and SkyTrain ridership up to 513,700 per day. The fastest grower was West Coast Express (5% year-over-year), which seems fairly close to the pre-Evergreen daily numbers now.

Compared to other Canadian cities, Vancouver's transit ridership growth is similar to Montreal's, and outpaces Calgary, Ottawa, and Edmonton. Meanwhile Toronto's numbers show higher growth but are all over the the board so...

Have a look for yourselves:
https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/2019-Q2-Ridership-APTA.pdf

Compared with Seattle, a metro area over 1,000,000 bigger than Vancouver, our system does us proud. If I recall Sound Transit is at 85,000 per day.
Perhaps add 4,000 if looking at the other Seattle statistic in the table immediately posted beneath.
At over 500,000 Vancouver outperforms every city except New York, Chicago, Boston and DC. It surpasses Los Angeles, Philadelphia, even SF, if those numbers are accurate!
The city is doing something right, and pax# will no doubt take a leap - if not "quantum" - then at least very significant, worthy of study, when the Broadway>Arbutus line is finished

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

The city is doing something right, and pax# will no doubt take a leap - if not "quantum" - then at least very significant, worthy of study, when the Broadway>Arbutus line is finished

Let's not forget the King George to Langley line as well. Everyone might talk about the Broadway section but the rest of the Millennium Line isn't that busy. Meanwhile the Expo Line is the busiest line and the section out to Surrey is the trunk line.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by scryer

and then they poured salt in the wound without their bus loop upgrades at Brighouse.

I recall reading somewhere that they wanted an on-street and spread out "bus loop" because an off-street and compact facility that you don't have to hike hours to get to another bus stop or the station would be "too sterile" or something like that.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Let's not forget the King George to Langley line as well. Everyone might talk about the Broadway section but the rest of the Millennium Line isn't that busy. Meanwhile the Expo Line is the busiest line and the section out to Surrey is the trunk line.

i seem to recall that various studies of the broadway subway have shown that it would be the first skytrain extension that would have revenues higher than operational costs (full-length to ubc).

ie: it would (after construction costs) pay for itself almost from day-1

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

I recall reading somewhere that they wanted an on-street and spread out "bus loop" because an off-street and compact facility that you don't have to hike hours to get to another bus stop or the station would be "too sterile" or something like that.

Document that spells out the two options they were looking at back in 2006:

https://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/072406c_Canadaline14960.pdf

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

i seem to recall that various studies of the broadway subway have shown that it would be the first skytrain extension that would have revenues higher than operational costs (full-length to ubc).

ie: it would (after construction costs) pay for itself almost from day-1

I think I'm misreading this - don't all the SkyTrain lines turn a profit (albeit not necessarily on opening day)?

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I think I'm misreading this - don't all the SkyTrain lines turn a profit (albeit not necessarily on opening day)?

The Canada Line broke even at 100,000 passengers per weekday (currently coming close to 150,000 daily)

Expo and Millennium Lines together should be breaking even (they are carrying the remaining 350,000+ passengers after all)

Neither hit that point on opening day however. For the Canada Line it went from 0 to 100k pretty fast but it still took about 9 months from opening day. For the Broadway subway to hit breakeven point on opening day is quite believable, although the additional operating costs would likely be absorbed within the Expo and Millennium Line's operating budget (so whatever corresponding system-wide fare revenue impact would determine to what extent the extension pays back the operating costs).

[WarrenC12]

The addition of the Broadway extension (even just to Arbutus) should have net positive financial impact immediately. The cost to run it will be incremental on the E/M-Lines, the ridership will increase dramatically, and they reduction in costs from running dozens of 99 buses will be all contribute positively.

There should be another such boost when the UBC extension opens.

Does Translink finance their portion of these extensions or is it cash they have saved up?

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Document that spells out the two options they were looking at back in 2006:

https://www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/072406c_Canadaline14960.pdf

Thanks for finding it!

But yeah the bus loop would have been much better. Less stress for people in wheelchairs or with difficulty walking long distances. After working on my feet all night and arriving at the station when the last bus is set to leave, I would have to run from the station to catch the bus when I lived in Richmond. Glad I don't have to do that anymore.

Besides, the sidewalks are shitty and the buildings are dated.

[cganuelas1995]

Cars stopping in bus stops are problematic, as it can slow down buses carrying hundreds of people.

If the red zones are proven to be effective, they will be painted at other locations in the future.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouve...QbGuXtVhcDtk8QCqzJgR9EcZL0-1QXnwQMeutV7k

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The addition of the Broadway extension (even just to Arbutus) should have net positive financial impact immediately. The cost to run it will be incremental on the E/M-Lines, the ridership will increase dramatically, and they reduction in costs from running dozens of 99 buses will be all contribute positively.

There should be another such boost when the UBC extension opens.

Does Translink finance their portion of these extensions or is it cash they have saved up?

No, provincial, municipal and federal funds go into big projects like these.

The Surrey Extension is actually only predicted to make up 2/3rds of its operating costs, no matter where it terminates (interestingly, since Langley Center was the stop with one of the highest boardings expected, has the highest benefit-to-cost ratio, and is already an actually decently sized city center destination.