Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Sorry - but BMO is THE premier soccer stadium in the country

The fact that we still have to discuss this point is pretty amazing.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The fact that we still have to discuss this point is pretty amazing.

Why do you say that?

Is it because it's not really a no-brainer that BMO is *that* stadium?

OR

Because a lot of people on here are blinded by anti-Toronto bias and can't see the obvious superiority of BMO as a result?

[FrankieFlowerpot]

A little from column A and a little from column B

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Why do you say that?

Is it because it's not really a no-brainer that BMO is *that* stadium?

OR

Because a lot of people on here are blinded by anti-Toronto bias and can't see the obvious superiority of BMO as a result?

I think some people try to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian if Toronto appears to be the best fit for anything. There's always some sort of pushback whenever Toronto is chosen for anything. Easy to hate the big guy. I don't get the love for Rogers Centre at all...great for baseball but abysmal for anything else.

BMO is:

• The best SSS in Canada;
• A frequent home to CSA and NTs;
• Easily expandable either permanently or temporarily

[Hackslack]

Was the worlds largest tournament in women's soccer that Canada hosted a couple years back even played at BMO? I'd think that if it was outright considered Canada's "premier" soccer stadium that at least one game should have been played there if not the finals. That's probably a good reason why this topic is open for debate.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Was the worlds largest tournament in women's soccer that Canada hosted a couple years back even played at BMO? I'd think that if it was outright considered Canada's "premier" soccer stadium that at least one game should have been played there if not the finals. That's probably a good reason why this topic is open for debate.

Well no - because it wasn't up for consideration because they were supposed to host all the soccer at the 2015 Pan American games.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/toronto-gets-the-womens-world-cup-boot/article569107/

Canadian soccer officials are holding their cheers until Thursday morning, waiting for the country's official coronation as host of the 2015 Women's World Cup of soccer.

Toronto soccer fans, meanwhile, are holding their heads in frustration at the news Canada's largest city is not one of the candidates to stage some of the 52 World Cup matches. The opportunity will go to at least six other Canadian cities, while Toronto prepares BMO Field for the 2015 Pan American Games.

"Yes, there were discussions [with the Canadian Soccer Association]" Pan Am Games chief executive officer Ian Troop said, en route to meetings in Veracruz, Mexico.

"It comes down to logistics. The issue is practicality; we have to take into consideration the need to prepare the site for the Pan Am sports program as well as accommodating the professional [soccer]team's schedules.

"This is a great opportunity for six other markets in Canada to take advantage of a FIFA tournament. Plus those markets will have the opportunity to enhance their own infrastructure because of it.," he said.

[Franco401]

I'm far from being on team BMO here but: there is a compromise available.

An expanded BMO (45 000 seats) would be more than acceptable IF Canada is allowed four stadiums.

Three stadiums would mean Toronto-Montreal-Vancouver. Ideally, Skydome-Olympique-BC Place, with BC Place probably hosting Canada games. Having BMO in a three-stadium rotation would be embarrassing. But it would work if Commonwealth, CalgaryNext or hell, even Skydome are included.

By order of importance:

1. BC Place
2. Stade Olympique
3. Skydome (limited schedule due to Jays)

OR

1. BC Place
2. Stade Olympique
3. Commonwealth/CalgaryNext
4.BMO

OR

1. BC Place
2. Stade Olympique
3. Skydome
4. BMO

[esquire]

^ Based on what some have posted here, it does seem that FIFA is willing to bend its "rule" regarding a permanent capacity of 40,000 seats minimum. So in that case, BMO becomes a viable host even if it's not as ideal as Skydome.

So it really becomes a no-brainer then... Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver and possibly Edmonton. No way CalgaryNext gets it since whatever glorified gym they build (based on concepts to date) will not be in the same league as Commonwealth. So far the renderings for Calgary have basically indicated a Tim Hortons Field calibre stadium.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by wave46

There was just a pile of money dumped into the place to make it work for the Argos. Running back to the city and province for more money after there was >$100 million of upgrades done recently isn't going to happen, unless MLSE decided to foot the entire bill.

I'd imagine that MLSE wants to fill out the place regularly first, then use scarcity to raise ticket prices, subsequently improving their profits. Then, should demand hold up, they will invest in further expansion.

LOL.

You're making it out the public paid for the expansion. The only contribution was from the city with a $10 million investment. They stand to triple that with the new lease agreement for the expansion. The other $140 million was all private. The Feds and Province said no. For a world cup, I'm sure the province and feds will be a lot more giving.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by Franco401

I'm far from being on team BMO here but: there is a compromise available.

An expanded BMO (45 000 seats) would be more than acceptable IF Canada is allowed four stadiums.

Three stadiums would mean Toronto-Montreal-Vancouver. Ideally, Skydome-Olympique-BC Place, with BC Place probably hosting Canada games. Having BMO in a three-stadium rotation would be embarrassing. But it would work if Commonwealth, CalgaryNext or hell, even Skydome are included.

By order of importance:

1. BC Place
2. Stade Olympique
3. Skydome (limited schedule due to Jays)

OR

1. BC Place
2. Stade Olympique
3. Commonwealth/CalgaryNext
4.BMO

OR

1. BC Place
2. Stade Olympique
3. Skydome
4. BMO

One of the big factors is also going to be around scheduling. BC place, Skydome and BMO Field are also home to other professional sports teams and you are going to have to get those teams and their respective leagues to work around the scheduling.

In my mind this is a no-brainer. It will be Skydome, Stade Olympique and BC Place. Those are the only three cities with the infrastructure currently to host a WC game where they won't have to dump a lot of money to bring the facilities and training grounds up to par. Given that these are also the only three cities in Canada to have a MLS team, it seems likely that it will happen.

Aside from that, this is really a US-led bid that gives Mexico and Canada a chance to see their home team play on home soil. Neither country is in a place where they can host a WC on their own, so we are getting the US scraps. Is there any chance that Mexico will not play at Azteca?

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by isaidso

BC Place, Olympic Stadium, and Commonwealth Stadium are the obvious top 3 in the country. Mosaic and IGF are very nice but too small. It wouldn't be worth spending the money to add the extra 7000 seats either.

The 4th? I suppose Toronto will try to land it but Skydome is the only viable venue. If it's 3 cities Vancouver, Edmonton, and Montreal make the most sense. We here in Toronto like to think BMO is the country's premier soccer stadium but it's not even in the top 5.

This will blow your mind. Size isn't everything. Olympic Stadium is not Top 3 for anything as it stands right now.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Having BMO in a three-stadium rotation would be embarrassing.

I really wish you'd stop this silly talking point

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

This will blow your mind. Size isn't everything. Olympic Stadium is not Top 3 for anything as it stands right now.

It is for the WC. It seats 60,000 for soccer games. When you are showcasing Canada to the world and have a huge soccer following in Montreal, there is no chance that stadium won't be used. I've been to BMO field and am inclined to agree with some of the other posters that it's not a great stadium. If you had a choice between BMO and Skydome, what would you pick?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

LOL.

You're making it out the public paid for the expansion. The only contribution was from the city with a $10 million investment. They stand to triple that with the new lease agreement for the expansion. The other $140 million was all private. The Feds and Province said no. For a world cup, I'm sure the province and feds will be a lot more giving.

Your point is taken, but the province kicked in $10m too.

Ontario Government Release

I still think MLSE won't do anything permanent for the next 10 years, especially since they just spent a pile of money on the place.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

This will blow your mind. Size isn't everything. Olympic Stadium is not Top 3 for anything as it stands right now.

Except that the selection process won't only be about the stadium.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Jammon

It is for the WC. It seats 60,000 for soccer games. When you are showcasing Canada to the world and have a huge soccer following in Montreal, there is no chance that stadium won't be used. I've been to BMO field and am inclined to agree with some of the other posters that it's not a great stadium. If you had a choice between BMO and Skydome, what would you pick?

With temporary endzone seating olympic could be pushing 70K similar to the 2008 grey cup.

of course it needs a pretty substantial reno. but Quebec has been looking for a reason to throw money at it.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by king10

With temporary endzone seating olympic could be pushing 70K similar to the 2008 grey cup.

of course it needs a pretty substantial reno. but Quebec has been looking for a reason to throw money at it.

I agree. It's about putting as many bums in the seats as reasonably possible. And it is very likely that every game hosted in Canada will be a sellout.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by king10

of course it needs a pretty substantial reno. but Quebec has been looking for a reason to throw money at it.

It does seem that way, doesn't it?

I guess it helps that the stadium has its own bureaucracy dedicated to justifying its own existence and constantly lobbying for more money to pump into the facilities there.

[osmo]

SkyDome isn't an option. People need to let it die.

Originally Posted by Jammon

One of the big factors is also going to be around scheduling. BC place, Skydome and BMO Field are also home to other professional sports teams and you are going to have to get those teams and their respective leagues to work around the scheduling.

In my mind this is a no-brainer. It will be Skydome, Stade Olympique and BC Place. Those are the only three cities with the infrastructure currently to host a WC game where they won't have to dump a lot of money to bring the facilities and training grounds up to par. Given that these are also the only three cities in Canada to have a MLS team, it seems likely that it will happen.

Aside from that, this is really a US-led bid that gives Mexico and Canada a chance to see their home team play on home soil. Neither country is in a place where they can host a WC on their own, so we are getting the US scraps. Is there any chance that Mexico will not play at Azteca?

Hasn't Mexico hosted twice? Mexico could host this on irs own much more easily than Canada. I just do t think there is an appetite for it there as the economy is rocky and they have some rough spots security wise in some regions of the country.

Mexico is far ahead of Canada with this.

---

Time zones as mentioned are important. Brazil did well on TV as it was right in the middle for USA EST and Euro GMT and their timezones. A USA WC will mean ESPN will overpay for rights and will strong arm FIFA to create a TV friendly schedule.

Also, important is climate and clusters. We forget how diverse the climate is in the USA and this was a complaint during 1994. Travel distances were to spread out and climate variations affected the players. The switch from smoggy Southern California, to muggy swamp DC, to scorching Dallas, were all issues.

This would not be repeated and will likely present USA cities to be clusters with a bias towards EST. So in saying that, Vancouver would not be a slam dunk if it was the only Cascadia city hosting as it would be isolated from the North American rotation. Ideally Sells would host in the USA and you can have both cities cluster, only draw back is that you poach the regional audience as many would cross the border to watch games anyhow. LA-SF-Sea-Van as the PST coastal cluster would make sense, I think direct flights are in place between all those markets as well.

In saying all that, I would be surprised if CSA gets strong armed and Ottawa gets thrown in as it's in the EST.

[Hackslack]

Doesn't canada need to first worry about qualifying for the World Cup? Or is there a free pass for host country?... has that ever happened in the past?

Also, I'd think that real grass is a necessity, yet BC Place, Skydome, and Olympic Stadium don't have it... so the next question is how much it'd cost to install real grass and is it worth it for 3 games... The Blue Jays, working in a Billion + dollar business, came to the conclusion that it isn't worth the cost and they play 81 home games every year, with the risk of not attracting top players for not having real grass. If millions of tax dollars were to be dumped in to these stadiums for 3 measley games each, I'd be pretty f'n ticked... so I'd say that at this point BMO is definitely the most logical stadium.