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  #9841  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 10:47 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
It can be easily expanded over the next 7 years. I find the location of BMO isolated but, not to the degree of IGF or NMS. There nothing to do but, to go home once you leave those stadiums.
I can't see a permanent expansion for 3 games, regardless of the World Cup. More than likely is that FIFA will yield and there will be 40,000 temporary seats.
     
     
  #9842  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
In the words of Zoey Klein. Yuckkkk

So I guess you're implying a permanent expansion is completely out of the question. I wouldn't be jumping that quickly to that conclusion.
     
     
  #9843  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 10:53 PM
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I can't see a permanent expansion for 3 games, regardless of the World Cup. More than likely is that FIFA will yield and there will be 40,000 temporary seats.
I don't think it's out of the question. Others have spent a lot more for facilities for a lot less. It also depends on the future performance of Toronto FC. The last expansion came quicker than expected with MLSE willing to cover most if not all the costs. They would get nice hand out for a World Cup.
     
     
  #9844  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
IIRC, FIFA was looking for a capacity of ~40,000 permanent seats.

BMO has ~25-30k and can accommodate 40,000 temporarily.

Given that FIFA is in the position it is in, I'd imagine that they will probably overlook this detail at BMO.
They approved 2 in Russia that are approx 35K, in Kaliningrad (will actually revert to a 25K after) and Yekaterinburg 35K (refurbished to 27K permanent with 8K in temp)
     
     
  #9845  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 11:20 PM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
So I guess you're implying a permanent expansion is completely out of the question. I wouldn't be jumping that quickly to that conclusion.
No, actually I'm not. A permanent expansion might be the only way to prevent it from being yukkk, but are there another 15k people to support that as a legacy? It would be like expanding Mosaic to 40k, by doing that you are taking away from the scarcity of tickets (the old supply/demand)
     
     
  #9846  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
Do you really think there is absolutely zero chance of a soccer stadium being chosen over a football stadium especially for round robin action?
Ok, convert me. Which one? Sorry if I assumed you were talking about the US.
     
     
  #9847  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 12:15 AM
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Toronto will likely have an NFL stadium by 2026, so there's your world cup venue.
     
     
  #9848  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 12:18 AM
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Considering the fact we've all had this exact conversation numerous times before, I'm perplexed why the same short sighted comments are being repeated. BMO has been expanded 3 times with permanent seating, in the past 9 years, and will likely be expanded at least once again in the 9 years between now and the World Cup. A BMO Field with 40-45,000+ permanent seats is a very real probability. It was built using the same easily expandable system as Liverpool FC's home grounds. The only construction that has to be expedited would be the waterfront LRT and pedestrian chokepoints next to the Exhibition GO Station.
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Last edited by mistercorporate; Aug 18, 2017 at 12:30 AM.
     
     
  #9849  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
I can't see a permanent expansion for 3 games, regardless of the World Cup. More than likely is that FIFA will yield and there will be 40,000 temporary seats.
Who said 3 games? Please remember that BMO Field is the home grounds of several sports teams, demand from whom would require expansion regardless of World Cup. Anyone following the growth of Toronto FC will know that 40k average attendance by 2026 is very possible, so 40k permanent seats with room to temporarily expand to 45k makes total sense.
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  #9850  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 1:20 AM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Toronto will likely have an NFL stadium by 2026, so there's your world cup venue.
I highly disagree. The NFL-to-Toronto hypetrain is at a halt, there's no way the city will fund the palace that the NFL would require, there isn't a place for things like tailgating, the Argos (and the rest of the CFL) would go kicking and screaming, you could have an Arizona Coyotes situation where people still cheer for whatever team they liked before their city had one and therefore won't support their home franchise, the Bills won't like having their many international fans stop crossing the border, the departure of three different teams in two years eliminates the best suggestions for teams that could relocate, expansion is unlikely because of the delicate balance the NFL has set up with its divisions (although the AFC North would be fine with 5 teams, the Browns don't count ) the Argos' existing fanbase in mostly in the 'burbs, the key demographic for Toronto sports (young, upper middle class) is already in the other four sports in town, and the once-underserved Toronto media market is becoming increasing saturated with the Leafs become good, Raptors continuing to be pretty good, TFC dominating all of MLS, and Jays having their best attendance in 20 years.

Also, if there were to be an NFL team in Toronto by 2026 it would likely be at Skydome or BMO while an NFL-worthy stadium is being built. For an NFL stadium to be WC-ready, it would need to be under construction in 2024 at the absolute latest, and seven years isn't that far away.
     
     
  #9851  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 1:23 AM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Toronto will likely have an NFL stadium by 2026, so there's your world cup venue.
That's funny
     
     
  #9852  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 1:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
Who said 3 games? Please remember that BMO Field is the home grounds of several sports teams, demand from whom would require expansion regardless of World Cup. Anyone following the growth of Toronto FC will know that 40k average attendance by 2026 is very possible, so 40k permanent seats with room to temporarily expand to 45k makes total sense.
At this rate TFC will need a 500,000 seat stadium within 50 years!
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  #9853  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 1:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
At this rate TFC will need a 500,000 seat stadium within 50 years!
Or so we are always told Just curious how many games have they sold out this year? The Green Riders have sold out most of their games this year haven't they? But would I recommend increasing capacity to 40k, hell no. Create ticket scarcity, which is hopefully what will save the woeful on field TiCats this year.
     
     
  #9854  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 2:54 AM
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Originally Posted by king10 View Post
CSA is pushing for 4 Canadian stadiums included as part of the final bid
BC Place, Olympic Stadium, and Commonwealth Stadium are the obvious top 3 in the country. Mosaic and IGF are very nice but too small. It wouldn't be worth spending the money to add the extra 7000 seats either.

The 4th? I suppose Toronto will try to land it but Skydome is the only viable venue. If it's 3 cities Vancouver, Edmonton, and Montreal make the most sense. We here in Toronto like to think BMO is the country's premier soccer stadium but it's not even in the top 5.
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  #9855  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 3:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
Who said 3 games? Please remember that BMO Field is the home grounds of several sports teams, demand from whom would require expansion regardless of World Cup. Anyone following the growth of Toronto FC will know that 40k average attendance by 2026 is very possible, so 40k permanent seats with room to temporarily expand to 45k makes total sense.
There was just a pile of money dumped into the place to make it work for the Argos. Running back to the city and province for more money after there was >$100 million of upgrades done recently isn't going to happen, unless MLSE decided to foot the entire bill.

I'd imagine that MLSE wants to fill out the place regularly first, then use scarcity to raise ticket prices, subsequently improving their profits. Then, should demand hold up, they will invest in further expansion.
     
     
  #9856  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 3:18 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
We here in Toronto like to think BMO is the country's premier soccer stadium but it's not even in the top 5.
Sorry - but BMO is THE premier soccer stadium in the country
     
     
  #9857  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 6:15 AM
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Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot View Post
Sorry - but BMO is THE premier soccer stadium in the country
Arguably the premier venue would be BC place, the lack of real grass is its detriment
     
     
  #9858  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 7:26 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
BC Place, Olympic Stadium, and Commonwealth Stadium are the obvious top 3 in the country. Mosaic and IGF are very nice but too small. It wouldn't be worth spending the money to add the extra 7000 seats either.

The 4th? I suppose Toronto will try to land it but Skydome is the only viable venue. If it's 3 cities Vancouver, Edmonton, and Montreal make the most sense. We here in Toronto like to think BMO is the country's premier soccer stadium but it's not even in the top 5.
It's the only CSA friendly facility with natural grass...

Canada got spoiled with the Woman's World Cup which is a rounding error to FIFA in size and scope, BC Place looked impressive dressed up for it but that set up with turf will never fly for the MWC.

Places like NMS and IGF are Canadian football palaces but would turn into lackluster soccer facilities. They are well suited for CFL and are top quality for THAT sport, both are goofy soccer facilities due to the fact of such large CFL field dimensions among their seats versus a soccer pitch.

As mentioned, the truth is the truth, and simply points to the lackluster facilities present in Canada all around. I can't think of any G8 nation with as poor outdoor facilities as us, we would be ideal to have a fancy national stadium that could be used in situations like this bid. Canada regionalism would never stand for a single national stadium (especially in Toronto), but one central world class facility would do wonders for national sport here.

There isn't one elite level outdoor facility in Canada. Not even one.

With that, BMO Field is indeed our best soccer facility, even if it looks like a garden shed and cost a nickle to build.

If BC Place had grass it would easily be number one. Why can't we ask why that grass never explored? I know likely the reasons why but I wonder if others may know (Answer: 'Canadian Cheapness' as grass costs much more to maintain).

A fun game is to look at the adequacy/inadequacy of USA facilities and markets. Lowly Indianapolis for example would likely get cut in a USA rotation but that facility and market is better equipped than any Canadian market, even Vancouver and Toronto. Quite sad. It shouldn't be this way.
     
     
  #9859  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
If BC Place had grass it would easily be number one.
Can't disagree with that
     
     
  #9860  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 12:56 PM
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The truth is none of the Canadian stadium + city pairings are a perfect slam dunk.

One shortcoming for Vancouver that I don't think has been mentioned is time zones.

(As with many of the shortcomings mentioned - it's not likely to be an absolute deal-breaker but it's part of what prevents Vancouver from being a slam dunk.)

The Eastern North American time zone is very desirable for international events like the WC because it alllows for games to be broadcast in the afternoon for the Americas and in the evening for Europe, Africa and the Middle East. (BTW I do realize there is more population in East Asia but that's not the way the people in power think.)
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