Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[elly63]

Originally Posted by elly63

There's been some good points made at the Argo Fan Forum about MLSE buying the Argos. I'm beginning to come around to the idea.

Why would MLSE want to buy the Argos?
1 New TV contract makes it easier to make the team profitable, something that wasn't there when MLSE last looked at buying the team.

2 The BCE people (28% of MLSE) who own TSN are sympathetic to the Argos. The CFL not only provides vital Canadian content (which the NFL obviously is not) but also provides highly rated programming (close to hockey). Win, win or as they say in the CFL a ratio changer.

4 I'm beginning to form the opinion that MLSE's motives may not be as sinister as we may believe. They may be of the opinion that the NFL "dream" is either dead or a very long way off. By buying the Argos and making them profitable gives them another successful sports property (especially TV) while "waiting" for the NFL and gives them valuable experience in running a football organization. And if the NFL doesn't happen they still have another successful property.

On the other hand...
I am more and more coming to the conclusion that David Braley may build his own stadium. This guy seems to cultivate the image of some unsophisticated, hard nosed guy who made his millions through auto parts, gives some away, end of story. The more research I've been doing on this guy the more impressive he becomes.

He is friggin' loaded (more than may be commonly known). Apparently aside from the auto parts and construction companies he is one of the largest commercial land developers in Ontario. He's given away millions at a time to various concerns including a 50 million gift to McMaster's medical school.

There is a quote that his net worth awes other CFL owners. Before any CFL haters out there scoff: Bob Young (Hamilton) is worth at least over 250 million, Roger Greenberg & family (Ottawa) is worth 1.1 billion, Bob Wetenhall (Montreal) was a former part owner of the New England Patriots and a co owner of an NASL team in the 70s. Braley has stated he's turned the BC Lions around and is making money there.

Another point that may not be well known is that Braley has sat on various boards and committees with a broad range of entertainment options and facilities. He knows where every cent is spent. I get the feeling this guy knows or knows people who know how to mount a successful show. And that's the crux of my point. It's looking like he doesn't want to sell the Argos and we know MLSE doesn't want another stadium around to compete for any other entertainment dollars.

Braley has the money, the construction and development experience, the entertainment know how and the political connections to get it done. He loves Canada and the CFL and I'm beginning to wonder if this will be his last hurrah before he steps down and sells the much more appealing Argos (to potential new owners, profitable in their own stadium) to someone he trusts will do right by them when he's gone.

[craner]

^ I hope you're right.
THF looking good but I don't like both teams on the same sideline.

[esquire]

The fact that Braley is a Senator and obviously plugged into the Ottawa power structure will help his cause too. The only question is whether he's committed enough to the Argonauts to make it happen... I always had the impression that the Lions were his "real" team and he took over the Argonauts basically as a favour to the league. Is he interested in doing the heavy lifting it will take to get a new stadium built in Toronto?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

I always had the impression that the Lions were his "real" team and he took over the Argonauts basically as a favour to the league. Is he interested in doing the heavy lifting it will take to get a new stadium built in Toronto?

I've never got that impression. In the last interview I heard with him, he stated that the Lions were making money and that there were 7 or 8 people interested in buying.

I'm sure he took over the Argos as a favour but also as the same challenge he had with the Lions. The Lions have rebounded and after doing his due diligence we'll see if he is interested in doing the heavy lifting with the Argos. In the halftime interview of the Lions/Argos game he said:

Question: You've done this in British Colombia...I remember coming here and thinking I'm seeing the last days of the BC Lions when you'd have nine, ten, twelve thousand

Braley: In BC we did the demographics, we've now completed the demographics in Toronto we've got 14% Italian fans in Toronto so you've got to build your marketing programs and programs around the demographic and once you do that and reach out and touch them then they start to become your partners and Waterboys and in our case our Double Blues Club in Toronto.

It's a very slow hard working process but you're also fighting the big leagues in the sense of Major League Baseball and hockey. We had the best attendance and atmosphere for a home game in Toronto, I think it was 28 or 29 thousand last week for our home opener in Toronto. Everybody's talking about the buzz and if we start putting them in regularly we can bring those fans back to the Canadian Football League in Toronto

What we intend to do is have a 27-29 thousand seat stadium in all likelihood in north Toronto, Vaughan, Markham maybe Mississauga and the plans are being worked on outside the Argonauts themselves, they're to sell tickets and put the house in order for the team. Outside I have my construction companies working on where we would be and where we could set up and where we could build a stadium and who's gonna fund it

Question: Do you have a timeline?

Braley: Under 5 years. They (Rogers) wouldn't kick us out on the street if we needed an extra year but it would be best if we had our own facility, if it's three years fine if it's four years fine if it's six years it'll come to pass.

[SteelTown]

I've met David Braley and his son, who David Braley would like to pass the torch (especially keeping the CFL strong). My pay cheque comes from David Braley's donation. But anyways yes he's totally committed to rebuilding the Argos and then selling it off once it's on a solid base.

[elly63]

I can't be bothered to start a poll outside of this thread but I'm interested in the following: Which do you think will happen and your reasons why (to prevent dumbass answers):

1 David Braley will build a stadium
2 MLSE will expand BMO to house the Argos
3 The Rogers lease will run out in five years with nothing done.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by elly63

I can't be bothered to start a poll outside of this thread but I'm interested in the following: Which do you think will happen and your reasons why (to prevent dumbass answers):

1 David Braley will build a stadium
2 MLSE will expand BMO to house the Argos
3 The Rogers lease will run out in five years with nothing done.

Likely (2).

[Chadillaccc]

Site preparation progress at the site of Regina's future stadium.

Originally Posted by Stormer

demo at stadium site:

[fenwick16]

I posted this in the Hamilton local section and decided afterwards that I should re-post it in this section. I live about 50 minutes away from Hamilton in the western GTA so I will have a chance to go to see some games when the stadium opens. The security guard at the construction site said that it is scheduled to open June 15th, 2014.

I drove into Hamilton to take some construction pictures of the new stadium. It certainly is tall and impressive. I can see why it is costing $140 million to build (I hope that I have the number right). It appears to have several concourse levels - does anyone know how many square feet of interior space it will have?

This is a great location to watch a stadium being build. Along Balsam Avenue and Melrose Avenue the stadium appears to be only 10 - 15 feet from the street.

West grandstand from Beechwood Avenue.


Another view of the west grandstand from Beechwood Avenue.


Back of the West grandstand from Melrose Avenue North.


West grandstand from Cannon Street East.


Closeup of the west grandstand from Cannon Street East


East stands from the corner of Cannon Street East and Balsam Avenue North.


Back of the east stands from Balsam Avenue North.

[Barnard's Star]

Originally Posted by elly63

1 David Braley will build a stadium
2 MLSE will expand BMO to house the Argos
3 The Rogers lease will run out in five years with nothing done.

It's a good question elly, as you could make an argument for all three.

I very slightly favour 1 at the moment. Partly for the reasons you've stated about Braley and partly because the Richard Peddie interview linked around here somewhere convinced me that MLSE is extremely reluctant to purchase the Argos. As he put it, who wants to get into a team that sees attendance go down the year after winning a championship? MLSE is also going to be wary of risking their FC for the sake of an even less lucrative franchise. TFC attendance is already dropping; a renovation and new seating configuration might sink them.

All of that said, I don't see Braley building a stadium as a slam dunk. He may be super rich, but no one drops $200 million simply as a matter of pride. Stadiums need governments on board and at least in Toronto proper I don't know if there's going to be an appetite for it. Perhaps one of the suburbs may see an opportunity to put themselves on the stadium map.

So if neither 1 or 2 are a sure thing, possibility 3 looms large. It would mean folding the Argos.

edit: interesting article from a couple of years ago that's germane: http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/argos/2011/12/09/argos_odd_team_out_in_mlse_deal.html

[craner]

Great updates from Hammy, Ottawa, & Regina - thanks guys.

[ScreamingViking]

I do think there's merit to the MLSE idea but I could also see Braley investing in a stadium (with cooperation from a willing municipality).

But he was heavily involved in the Pan Am Games before his appointment to the Senate forced him to withdraw. You'd think when they decided to build the athletics stadium at YorkU he would have viewed that as a prime opportunity to partner up and build a larger facility capable of hosting the Argos.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I posted this in the Hamilton local section and decided afterwards that I should re-post it in this section. I live about 50 minutes away from Hamilton in the western GTA so I will have a chance to go to see some games when the stadium opens. The security guard at the construction site said that it is scheduled to open June 15th, 2014.

I drove into Hamilton to take some construction pictures of the new stadium. It certainly is tall and impressive. I can see why it is costing $140 million to build (I hope that I have the number right). It appears to have several concourse levels - does anyone know how many square feet of interior space it will have?

Nice update fenwick16, thanks!

There are going to be two concourses on each side, but the west side also has a level of club seats and another of private suites, so those are two of the levels you see.

No idea about square footage, but total cost is $146 million... supposedly $119M is construction cost and the remainder "soft" costs (details were discussed in this news story)

[elly63]

I'm interested in the following: Which do you think will happen and your reasons why (to prevent dumbass answers):

1 David Braley will build a stadium
2 MLSE will expand BMO to house the Argos
3 The Rogers lease will run out in five years with nothing done
4 The Argos will move to a renovated stadium other than BMO ie York, Lamport, Varsity

I guess I should have added a fourth option (added above)

[cjones2451]

Does MLSE already own Lamport Stadium? I wonder with the uproar and backlash about BMO Field, blowing up stands etc and turf, etc. would they look at the Argos going there (maybe with help from Mr. Braley)

Originally Posted by elly63

I'm interested in the following: Which do you think will happen and your reasons why (to prevent dumbass answers):

1 David Braley will build a stadium
2 MLSE will expand BMO to house the Argos
3 The Rogers lease will run out in five years with nothing done
4 The Argos will move to a renovated stadium other than BMO ie York, Lamport, Varsity

I guess I should have added a fourth option (added above)

[FrankieFlowerpot]

The City of Toronto owns Lamport Stadium

[GernB]

Originally Posted by elly63

I'm interested in the following: Which do you think will happen and your reasons why (to prevent dumbass answers):

1 David Braley will build a stadium
2 MLSE will expand BMO to house the Argos
3 The Rogers lease will run out in five years with nothing done
4 The Argos will move to a renovated stadium other than BMO ie York, Lamport, Varsity

I guess I should have added a fourth option (added above)

I think Mr. Braley will build a stadium as part of a multisport-entertainment complex somewhere in the north or to the north of Toronto. It will be at least as much of a real estate development as a sporting venture. I would not be surprised to see the federal government involved in assembling or making a site available. If the GTA Centre in Markham is still a go I would not be surprised to see a stadium built nearby. But there will be substantial public funds (whether federal, provincial, municipal or some combination of the three) involved even if only to the point of making a site available.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Does MLSE already own Lamport Stadium

Funny you say that because I read that too... Wikipedia? I then did some further reading to make sure it was the city that owned Lamport.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by GernB

I think Mr. Braley will build a stadium as part of a multisport-entertainment complex somewhere in the north or to the north of Toronto. It will be at least as much of a real estate development as a sporting venture.

That's my understanding of his plans, as well.

[elly63]

Down in Mtl and Tor, down for obvious reasons in Ham. Otherwise looking good