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  #3281  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2013, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by king10 View Post
a soccer field is 100 yds long. a canadian football field is 150 yards long. have you seen how many yards are behind bmo fields endlines? 5 at most. you think removing a couple rows of seats would make up for the extra 40 yards? not a chance. both endzone stands would have to be demolished and the road in behind the south stand closed while possibly running out of room at the north stand because of the food building standing in the way

lets not even get started on if they switched back to turf. or if they actually think they can maintain a grass pitch for football and soccer
Commonwealth Stadium was grass and did double duty for decates, and it's would be much easier to have a stronger grass surface in Toronto than Edmonton, due to Edmonton's harsher and longer winters.

If they do it right with retractable endzone seating, I think it can be done satisfactorily. It will probably cost a fair bit to switch it, but definitely cheaper than building new (especially with no games to get help with the cost).
     
     
  #3282  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2013, 3:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
Because it's bare bones, it will go up very quickly.
Come on Chad, I'm sure it'll be craptastic!
     
     
  #3283  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2013, 7:12 AM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
MLSE is casting solicitous eyes toward the Toronto Argonauts. It is a tryst, like that of Prince Charles and Lady Diana, that could see a third suitor lurking outside the bedroom door.

The NFL.


what a strange aside.
     
     
  #3284  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2013, 10:52 PM
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Call it bare bones all you want. I'm still skeptical that you can build a 20k+ stadium that quickly with all the work that still looks to be done. I see them in Guelph again to start the season next year.
     
     
  #3285  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 12:48 AM
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There is no way the stadium will be ready in 9 and 1/2 months. No way. Impossible. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if most of, if not the entire, 2014 season is played in Guelph again.
     
     
  #3286  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 2:33 AM
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Tks to drummer_god at cfl.ca
New Ottawa Stadium September 9/2013











     
     
  #3287  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 2:51 AM
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There is no way the stadium will be ready in 9 and 1/2 months. No way. Impossible. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if most of, if not the entire, 2014 season is played in Guelph again.
Foxboro Stadium (opened in 1971) was built in less than eleven months. Crew Stadium was built in nine months
     
     
  #3288  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 3:36 AM
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You can't really compare construction of 40 years ago to this day and age. I don't know why, but construction takes a much longer time with almost everything now. It took only like 20 months to build both the Empire State Building and Chrysler Building in the late 20s/ early 30s, but yet it now takes us three or four years to build a tower half that height. Just an example.

The Crew Stadium example, well, hopefully Hamilton's can be built as quickly as that. What people are saying is that it just doesn't seem likely at this point.
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  #3289  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 3:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
The Crew Stadium example, well, hopefully Hamilton's can be built as quickly as that. What people are saying is that it just doesn't seem likely at this point.
BMO Field broke ground March 29, 2006 and opened April 28, 2007.

There have been no alarm bells raised with Hamilton or Ottawa from those who might be in the know.

Winnipeg was another matter where weather (wind) caused issues with the roof construction. IIRC if the cranes couldn't be used that caused other delays aside from the roof. Mike Clynes claims, even with the delays, Winnipeg set speed records for construction of a stadium of its size and complexity.
     
     
  #3290  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 3:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
The Argos the flagship franchise?

Toronto is an important market for sure... but this article is definitely taking it to the extremes of illusions of self-importance. I wouldnt be surprised if the Riders brought in more revenue last year than the Argos even with their hosting the Grey Cup (though the Argos books aren't public, so it would be impossible to know).
Canadians may not be comfortable with the amount of power and influence Toronto wields in this country, but to deny it is akin to having your head buried in the sand. Regina, Winnipeg, Edmonton, etc. may be the heart of the league and what's behind the CFL's resurgence, but Toronto matters a great deal.

It says a lot that the league's health still depends on decisions made in some city where the league is largely irrelevant. The CFL is a business whether people care to admit it. The business reality is that Toronto calls the shots as it does in most things in Canada.

It's wonderful what's happening in Regina, but it's Toronto that decides how big or how small the league gets. Why do people not get that? The league would not look like it does today if the Toronto Argonauts were culturally important to Torontonians. Thank God for western football fans, but if we love this league we should all be praying that Toronto starts supporting, investing, and growing the league.
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  #3291  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 4:37 AM
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I think people just wish that weren't the case and that Toronto would/will just divest itself of the responsibility and transfer the Argos to Markham, Vaughan, or Mississauga. Since Toronto cares so little, it would be nice to see cities that would be proud to have a team, such as Halifax, London, maybe even St. John's and Victoria to have teams. That is definitely a looooooong time off though.
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  #3292  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 5:49 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Canadians may not be comfortable with the amount of power and influence Toronto wields in this country, but to deny it is akin to having your head buried in the sand. Regina, Winnipeg, Edmonton, etc. may be the heart of the league and what's behind the CFL's resurgence, but Toronto matters a great deal.

It says a lot that the league's health still depends on decisions made in some city where the league is largely irrelevant. The CFL is a business whether people care to admit it. The business reality is that Toronto calls the shots as it does in most things in Canada.

It's wonderful what's happening in Regina, but it's Toronto that decides how big or how small the league gets. Why do people not get that? The league would not look like it does today if the Toronto Argonauts were culturally important to Torontonians. Thank God for western football fans, but if we love this league we should all be praying that Toronto starts supporting, investing, and growing the league.
I didn't say Toronto wasn't important. At this point all markets are important anyway; a 7 team league would really start pushing the boundaries of what is feasible. It's calling Toronto the flagship franchise that I take issue with. That's been what Edmonton was for decades and what Saskatchewan is increasingly becoming. There's a difference between what a flagship franchise is (generally your strongest franchise) and what a strategically important market for future business considerations is.

I already addressed the fact that the article talks about all teams being dependent on Toronto corporations for sponsorship, which is not the case at present as the Western teams are majority-sponsored by local market or generally western companies, just as Montreal is largely sponsored by Quebec-based corporations. Not sure why that was removed from my post you quoted...

Furthermore, I think everyone agrees that a very successful franchise in the country's largest city would be an incredible change for the league, and something Canadian Football fans generally hope would happen, but at this point (and for the last couple decades), the league has by and large survived in spite of support - or lack thereof - from Toronto, not because of it. I don't think any of us would question that the league would be better off if instead of Saskatchewan making up over half of merch sales, their sales equated to 1/8...

There's a big difference between current reality, which the article is mistaken on, and what the needs of future growth are, which I agree will involve more than the tepid support corporate Canada (largely based in Toronto) supplies. There is huge upside potential for the league if better support in the larger markets is achieved.

That is less burying our heads in the sand and more understanding the current situation and knowing where the potential building blocks for further growth lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
I think people just wish that weren't the case and that Toronto would/will just divest itself of the responsibility and transfer the Argos to Markham, Vaughan, or Mississauga. Since Toronto cares so little, it would be nice to see cities that would be proud to have a team, such as Halifax, London, maybe even St. John's and Victoria to have teams. That is definitely a looooooong time off though.
I don't think many actually wish that Toronto would divest itself of their team as it is known that, if tapped, there is large upside potential there and it is an important market for the league in terms of reaching the next level. Perhaps that's why, with the new media deal next year, MLSE is sniffing around a little now. I think the traditional markets are very important to maintain, and with the re-introduction of Ottawa, we basically return to the point where the league was at its strongest. Removing any of the traditional markets at this point would be a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
     
     
  #3293  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 5:54 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Canadians may not be comfortable with the amount of power and influence Toronto wields in this country, but to deny it is akin to having your head buried in the sand. Regina, Winnipeg, Edmonton, etc. may be the heart of the league and what's behind the CFL's resurgence, but Toronto matters a great deal.

It says a lot that the league's health still depends on decisions made in some city where the league is largely irrelevant. The CFL is a business whether people care to admit it. The business reality is that Toronto calls the shots as it does in most things in Canada.

It's wonderful what's happening in Regina, but it's Toronto that decides how big or how small the league gets. Why do people not get that? The league would not look like it does today if the Toronto Argonauts were culturally important to Torontonians. Thank God for western football fans, but if we love this league we should all be praying that Toronto starts supporting, investing, and growing the league.
Maybe things will pick up for the Argonauts down the road, but right now that franchise is being carried by Regina, Winnipeg, Edmonton, etc. Is TSN gonna give the CFL more money just because Toronto's Toronto? I suppose there might be some value in the brand name "Toronto". On the other hand, everybody knows Toronto wants an NFL team, so maybe the credibility of the league is better off without TO.
     
     
  #3294  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 6:42 AM
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That's sorta part of what I was trying to say, just better articulated.
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  #3295  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 6:55 AM
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Well, given that TSN used it's exclusive negotiating window to renew the CFL deal for more than double the current contract value, I'd say that's a pretty strong indication they liked the direction things were heading...
     
     
  #3296  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 1:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
Well, given that TSN used it's exclusive negotiating window to renew the CFL deal for more than double the current contract value, I'd say that's a pretty strong indication they liked the direction things were heading...
The more and more I learn about Rider Nation the more I realize how important Saskatchewan is to the CFL. Since I've moved out west I've experienced it first hand. There is Rider stuff EVERYWHERE.. and I'm in Alberta! They brought thousands of away fans to Edmonton for a game. They easily sell the most CFL merchandise (shirts, jackets, hats, jerseys, license plates you name it!).

The Lions were surprisingly popular when I moved to Vancouver aswell.
     
     
  #3297  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 2:10 PM
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Argos served with notice - they are gone from Rogers Centre by 2018

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/ba...urface-at-rogers-centre/article14211436/

Quote:
A renewed lease for the Toronto Argonauts to play at Rogers Centre will effectively serve as notice to vacate, clearing the way for grass to be installed for baseball no later than 2018.

The Toronto Blue Jays have determined it is possible to grow and maintain a grass playing surface inside the facility by digging up the floor, adding a drainage system and topping it with about 30 centimetres of dirt.

Argonauts chief executive Chris Rudge understands the Blue Jays intend to play on grass.

“They can’t do it with the Argos there, and more to the point, the Argos can’t play there if they have grass,” he said.
     
     
  #3298  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 3:35 PM
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There's been some good points made at the Argo Fan Forum about MLSE buying the Argos. I'm beginning to come around to the idea.

Why would MLSE want to buy the Argos?
1 New TV contract makes it easier to make the team profitable, something that wasn't there when MLSE last looked at buying the team.

2 The BCE people (28% of MLSE) who own TSN are sympathetic to the Argos. The CFL not only provides vital Canadian content (which the NFL obviously is not) but also provides highly rated programming (close to hockey). Win, win or as they say in the CFL a ratio changer.

3 MLSE knows David Braley is crazy enough and has the resources to build a stadium. This guy gave McMaster 5 million and Mohawk College 3 million to help build athletic centres. MLSE does not want another facility around for competition. Braley is an auto parts magnate, owns construction companies and has political connections, he can get it done.

4 I'm beginning to form the opinion that MLSE's motives may not be as sinister as we may believe. They may be of the opinion that the NFL "dream" is either dead or a very long way off. By buying the Argos and making them profitable gives them another successful sports property (especially TV) while "waiting" for the NFL and gives them valuable experience in running a football organization. And if the NFL doesn't happen they still have another successful property.

Of course there are other flies in the ointment. What if CFL football is really dead in Toronto like the wannabees say and MLSE fails in resurrecting it. Does that kill the NFL in Toronto?
     
     
  #3299  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 3:46 PM
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I’ll freely admit to preferring the NFL over the CFL – but I would never support a team in Toronto
     
     
  #3300  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2013, 4:02 PM
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I’ll freely admit to preferring the NFL over the CFL – but I would never support a team in Toronto
For a change (from the last 10 years), I've actually had a little bit more free time to sit in front of the TV recently, and took in some of the NFL opening weekend coverage (though I didn't watch an entire game - not even close).

Anyway, what a media and entertainment juggernaut. And it just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Whether you are a fan or not, the spectacle is almost awe-inspiring.

Not saying the CFL is dead or even a hopeless case, but it certainly has its work cut out for it and things aren't going to get any easier.
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