The Great Canadian Transit Thread - Page 47

nname · #**921** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 12:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

What are the 119 kilometers planned for Vancouver? I know the evergreen is what expands it to 79.6... and the UBC line must be part of the "plan"... but that's only 13 km... what else? The Expo extensions can't be 106 km... are there secret plans to extend the skytrain to the North Shore? That would be awesome.

A line to Newton, Guildford, and Langley are all within the 2031 time frame. But what they are going to use for those line (RRT, LRT, or BRT) is unknown at this point. So what we'll get in the end would probably be less than or equal to 119km.

===================

Now this is just for fun.. the graph for the rapid transit race between 1960 and 2020!

(Note: The line for Toronto begins at 1955, but I cut it off since there's no competition there

)

caltrane74 · #**922** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 1:22 PM**

That chart proves how badly served Toronto has been by public rapid transit. Even with the planned expansion of 38km of track we're barely ahead of Montreal and Vancouver.

DrJoe · #**923** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 2:00 PM**

Say what you want about it but Toronto also has 75 km of streetcar tracks which both Montreal and Vancouver would love to have.

caltrane74 · #**924** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 2:12 PM**

Yeah, the St. Clair line and the Harbourfront-Spadina line are semi-rapid transit I guess.

Once the new streetcars come online, they'll get better.

vid · #**925** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 4:19 PM**

Why does Toronto's line spike around 2015? Is a subway line going to drop by for a few months and then continue on its way to Vancouver?

Dwils01 · #**926** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 4:33 PM**

It might have to do with the Pan Am games. But I don't know why it would drop down after than though.

NetMapel · #**927** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 4:57 PM**

What's happening to Toronto closer to 2020 with a huge upward swing ? Is there going to be a new line built around that time ?

caltrane74 · #**928** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 5:54 PM**

The Eginton Line will be completed by 2020. It's a 30 km totally underground line. It will take a while to build. There is discussion on opening it in phases.

To clarify the old above ground section of the existing Scarborough RT, will be used by the new line. It will run above ground on this portion, which is not included in the 30 km construction build happening now.

nname · #**929** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 6:38 PM**

It drops due to the closure of SRT in around 2015

klb86 · #**930** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 7:09 PM**

Right after the 2015 Pan Am games the SRT will be shut down and construction on the new line will commence, connecting to the eglinton line.

Alexcaban · #**931** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 10:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrJoe

Say what you want about it but Toronto also has 75 km of streetcar tracks which both Montreal and Vancouver would love to have.

I find street car very useless and not a form for rapid transit at all cause of light and traffic. It would be even more useless in Montreal, if we gets then back in a few years as planed.

What Montreal needs is a complete new Metro line under Pie-IX.

Rico Rommheim · #**932** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 10:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban

I find street car very useless and not a form for rapid transit at all cause of light and traffic. It would be even more useless in Montreal, if we gets then back in a few years as planed.

What Montreal needs is a complete new Metro line under Pie-IX.

Agreed. Streetcars are a waste of money right now. A full metro system is what is really needed. And what Montreal needs to do is to Diversify its metro car stock, by which I mean, some metro lines should be able to go above ground. I find vancouver's skytrain very good indeed, thanks to its above ground system, Vancouver's metro is able to sprawl out way into the suburbs. That's just not feasible with the underground metro.

Alexcaban · #**933** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 10:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

And what Montreal needs to do is to Diversify its metro car stock, by which I mean, some metro lines should be able to go above ground. I find vancouver's skytrain very good indeed, thanks to its above ground system, Vancouver's metro is able to sprawl out way into the suburbs. That's just not feasible with the underground metro.

True but rubber tired metro and snow don't go well together

Plus you have to agree that MTL's suburbs except for parts of the west island are well served by metro. Laval better the Longueuil, but the yellow line extension will change that.

Rico Rommheim · #**934** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 10:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban

True but rubber tired metro and snow don't go well together

Yeah, that's why I said that the STM needs to diversify its stock. Who said that ALL the metro lines must have rubber tires? Why can't a new line that goes, say, to the airport be an above ground like Vancouver's Canada line?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban

Plus you have to agree that MTL's suburbs except for parts of the west island are well served by metro. Laval better the Longueuil, but the yellow line extension will change that.

Actually no, Laval's metro is only 3 stations. And it doesn't even take you to laval's core (or whatever that is). I keep bring up vancouver, but its true, vancouver's skytrain is amazing in the sense that it serves its large suburbs like Burnaby, Richmond and Surrey and New West pretty adequately. Not just a few stops, but almost full service.

1331Massi · #**935** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 11:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by habfanman

I hope they will be blue and white! I wonder if they can make them go "dou dou dou"? I'd miss the dou dou dou!

You're in luck! The new metro cars, as well as the MR-76s, will be equipped with a door-closing signal, which is: "Dou-dou-dou Attention, nous fermons les portes."

Here's the link to the article: http://www.mouvementcollectif.org/en/tag/metro

caltrane74 · #**936** Posted **Nov 6, 2011, 11:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban

I find street car very useless and not a form for rapid transit at all cause of light and traffic. It would be even more useless in Montreal, if we gets then back in a few years as planed.

What Montreal needs is a complete new Metro line under Pie-IX.

Just so you guys know, outside of the subway systems the streetcars have a greater capacity and greater ridership than an other form of public transport in Canada. Infact it was the profitable streetcars which allowed for the expansion of the subway system and bus routes out into the suburbs of Toronto. What you will find is that streetcars in Toronto will be upconverted to right of ways in the near future as congestion increases, as was done with the St. Clair Line. All put to far greater use with the new streetcars which will be almost double the length of the existing fleet.

vid · #**937** Posted **Nov 7, 2011, 1:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1331Massi

You're in luck! The new metro cars, as well as the MR-76s, will be equipped with a door-closing signal, which is: "Dou-dou-dou Attention, nous fermons les portes."

Here's the link to the article: http://www.mouvementcollectif.org/en/tag/metro

Does the announcer say "dou-dou-dou", or is there an electronic chime?

nname · #**938** Posted **Nov 7, 2011, 2:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Just so you guys know, outside of the subway systems the streetcars have a greater capacity and greater ridership than an other form of public transport in Canada.

In term of capacity per car/train, that statement is true. But in term of ridership, none of the street car route have more ridership than the 99 B-Line (a bus route) in Vancouver. According to this old document, the street car route with most ridership would be the 501 and 506, both with daily ridership of 41,200, while the 99 B-Line at that time got daily ridership of 44,000. For a combined route, the 504/508 comes out at the top at 47,900 daily riders, but in Vancouver, the 9 (local) and 99 (express) combined to have 79,000 riders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Infact it was the profitable streetcars which allowed for the expansion of the subway system and bus routes out into the suburbs of Toronto.

Not according to the same document I've posted above. The best route only got 61% cost recovery. Unless something magically happened to double the revenue in the past 5 years, its still loosing money.

caltrane74 · #**939** Posted **Nov 7, 2011, 4:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname

In term of capacity per car/train, that statement is true. But in term of ridership, none of the street car route have more ridership than the 99 B-Line (a bus route) in Vancouver. According to this old document, the street car route with most ridership would be the 501 and 506, both with daily ridership of 41,200, while the 99 B-Line at that time got daily ridership of 44,000. For a combined route, the 504/508 comes out at the top at 47,900 daily riders, but in Vancouver, the 9 (local) and 99 (express) combined to have 79,000 riders.

Not according to the same document I've posted above. The best route only got 61% cost recovery. Unless something magically happened to double the revenue in the past 5 years, its still loosing money.

I was talking about when the TTC was a for profit money making business. This profitable system of downtown streetcars financed the expansion of the service into the suburbs. Even to this day the TTC is the least subsidized transit systems on earth with close to 80% operating cost recovery.

Dwils01 · #**940** Posted **Nov 7, 2011, 4:22 AM**

80% is good for transit systems nowadays.
I thinks Hamilton currently only has a 50% operating cost recovery while transit in Halton region only has a 35-40% operating cost recovery.
The thing is the provincial goverment only covers 33% of capital cost and I don't believe they cover any operating cost, I think it's left to the municipalities now.