Port of Vancouver Discussion

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Reading about these developments and thinking about the port a bit made me wonder about something... Roberts Bank seems a bit exposed to the weather conditions in the Strait compared to Burrard Inlet. Are there any issues with that? When we have the kind of rough seas that cause the ferries to be cancelled, what happens with the ships at dock at Roberts Bank?

Rough for ferries is nothing for freighters. The ferries are never meant to leave the protected coastal waters but freighters are meant to cross the open ocean. It's no Puget Sound, but the Strait of Georgia is a pretty well protected body of water. I doubt they notice the worst weather the Strait can put forward.

[officedweller]

Apparently Westridge can only handle Aframax tankers:

Maximum Capacity: 80,000 to 120,000 tonnes (about 550,000 to 800,000 barrels)

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Apparently Westridge can only handle Aframax tankers:

Maximum Capacity: 80,000 to 120,000 tonnes (about 550,000 to 800,000 barrels)

And only about 80% loaded until the dredging in Burrard Inlet starting in the fall allows them to get through fully loaded.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Reading about these developments and thinking about the port a bit made me wonder about something... Roberts Bank seems a bit exposed to the weather conditions in the Strait compared to Burrard Inlet. Are there any issues with that? When we have the kind of rough seas that cause the ferries to be cancelled, what happens with the ships at dock at Roberts Bank?

From the RBT2 EA:

The Proponent indicated that during operations, vessels at berth could be damaged if wind and wave limits were exceeded.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Rough for ferries is nothing for freighters. The ferries are never meant to leave the protected coastal waters but freighters are meant to cross the open ocean. It's no Puget Sound, but the Strait of Georgia is a pretty well protected body of water. I doubt they notice the worst weather the Strait can put forward.

I'm thinking less about seaworthiness on the open waters and more about the ships getting bashed up by waves slamming them into the docks (not to mention the docks themselves). I guess they try to haul them in pretty tightly, but it seemed like it might be a concern in the more open waters of the strait.

Container ship loading has pretty fine tolerances, I wonder if they suspend stevedoring operations in heavy weather?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I'm thinking less about seaworthiness on the open waters and more about the ships getting bashed up by waves slamming them into the docks (not to mention the docks themselves). I guess they try to haul them in pretty tightly, but it seemed like it might be a concern in the more open waters of the strait.

Container ship loading has pretty fine tolerances, I wonder if they suspend stevedoring operations in heavy weather?

They don't allow extra large cruises ships to dock in Victoria at 25 knots or more windspeeds

https://www.ppa.gc.ca/standard/pilotage/...or%20conventional%20propulsion%20vessels.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I'm thinking less about seaworthiness on the open waters and more about the ships getting bashed up by waves slamming them into the docks (not to mention the docks themselves). I guess they try to haul them in pretty tightly, but it seemed like it might be a concern in the more open waters of the strait.

Container ship loading has pretty fine tolerances, I wonder if they suspend stevedoring operations in heavy weather?

The biggest swell anticipated at Roberts Bank is two meters. The worst case scenario is a 4 metre wave caused by a tsunami. Some Norwegian oil platforms load tankers directly from a floating terminal, and north sea waves are typically 2-3 metres in summer, and up to 10 metres in winter. That suggests there's existing experience with loading tankers in worse conditions than are expected to be experienced here.

The VLCC tankers expected to use the new terminal will be at least three times bigger in volume than the Aframax tankers in Burrard Inlet, and there are expected to be a tanker leaving only every two to three days if the new pipeline reaches maximum capacity of a million barrels a day. If there's disruptive weather, it's possible to suspend loading, just as BC Ferries try to avoid sailing in storms.

One interesting scenario suggests that some of the diluted bitumen coming from Alberta could go directly to the four operating refineries in Washington State, which currently receive Canadian stock from tankers that load in Burrard Inlet. It would only need a short spur pipeline, and that would reduce the tanker exports from Roberts Bank to the far east. There are some big questions yet to be answered about the potential customers for additional Alberta diluted bitumen. While both South Korea and Japan are slow to adopt EVs, and rely on imported oil, they currently get it from the middle east, and their refineries are designed to accommodate crude oil, not diluted bitumen. China is rapidly electrifying its transportation and how long they'll need to import oil in any significant volume is very unclear.

[Migrant_Coconut]

If truly in doubt, floating breakwaters are a thing.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

One interesting scenario suggests that some of the diluted bitumen coming from Alberta could go directly to the four operating refineries in Washington State, which currently receive Canadian stock from tankers that load in Burrard Inlet. It would only need a short spur pipeline, and that would reduce the tanker exports from Roberts Bank to the far east. There are some big questions yet to be answered about the potential customers for additional Alberta diluted bitumen. While both South Korea and Japan are slow to adopt EVs, and rely on imported oil, they currently get it from the middle east, and their refineries are designed to accommodate crude oil, not diluted bitumen. China is rapidly electrifying its transportation and how long they'll need to import oil in any significant volume is very unclear.

Doesn't Washington State receive Canadian crude all through the existing spur pipeline?

I guess Washington State has the same problem with not wanting to invest billions into refinery retrofits for a dying market.

And you can't discount that most of the Asian markets use oil refineries as export models with jet fuel and other products (plastics) being resold around the world.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Doesn't Washington State receive Canadian crude all through the existing spur pipeline?

Apparently not. Once TMX 2 was operating "Western Washington refineries brought in more oil by tanker from Canada after an expanded export terminal opened in May near Vancouver".