NEW YORK | Penn Station / MSG Renovation

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I doubt the city will decline to renew the operating permit for MSG. While you may think the MSG may consider moving to the Bronx or maybe Queens, there is also the strong possibility that they would also consider and likely enact a move to New Jersey, near the Meadowlands complex or maybe Jersey City, and I am sure NYC or NY state does not want that. So be careful what you wish for...

I highly doubt that. Further, the Yankees, Mets, and Rangers did not pull low-life shenanigans.

The train capacity problem must be fixed.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

oh total grift scam.

dolan meets with herr orange overlord.

suddenly msg is staying put.

come on, right?

anyhoo, i believe a few lines of thru running can be snaked out of penn.

it just can’t be done en masse because of msg.

not sure, but i think i read that somewhere.

The Replacement rolling stock for each of the railroads has been ordered and none with thru running in mind. The only thing that is moving forward is few Amtrak services that terminate at Penn will extend to Ronkonkoma but that was from the Biden Amtrak expansion plan.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I doubt the city will decline to renew the operating permit for MSG. While you may think the MSG may consider moving to the Bronx or maybe Queens, there is also the strong possibility that they would also consider and likely enact a move to New Jersey, near the Meadowlands complex or maybe Jersey City, and I am sure NYC or NY state does not want that. So be careful what you wish for...

I doubt they'll move to the Meadowlands and the only place I can think of is near Newark Airport near the train station.. I think it will be the Hudson Yards or the Sunnyside Yards..not NJ...maybe Connecticut but it would have to be New Haven or Hartford.

[BuildThemTaller]

Originally Posted by ChiND

There's no need to exercise eminent domain. If the city doesn't renew the operating permit, MSG has no value as an arena. It has value only as a development site.

That is wildly misinformed.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller

That is wildly misinformed.

If the permit is not renewed, MSG cannot have more than 2,500 attendees at any event. That renders MSG useless as an arena. Indeed, that permit is MSG's Achilles Heel.

While Penn is heinous, the real problem is the capacity issue. That has to be fixed, and the Halmar plan does absolutely nothing to address it. The Halmar plan is an $8b vanity project that's about as well-thought as the war in Iran. It's all moot anyway because, as noted, Congress likely won't fund it.

MSG could work out its own deal with Vornado to move voluntarily to the Hotel Penn site, and NY could assist with eminent domain vis-a-vis holdouts who won't sell. Alternatively, MSG could move to the Bronx.

[Crawford]

The renderings for the renovation have been leaked and as expected, look basically the same as original renderings. Should look quite nice.

The train hall will be one of the more impressive halls anywhere.

https://gothamist.com/news/exclusive-ren...-show-trumps-name-with-presidential-seal

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The renderings for the renovation have been leaked and as expected, look basically the same as original renderings. Should look quite nice.

The train hall will be one of the more impressive halls anywhere.

https://gothamist.com/news/exclusive-ren...-show-trumps-name-with-presidential-seal

That looks very nice. Once again though, it does not address the train capacity issue. When it became clear from the NYP article that Trump favored this plan, I had hoped that he'd commit to building Penn South to address capacity.

It appears that the new mid-block hall has been eliminated. Since truck loading can still occur where the mid-block train hall would have gone, Halmar can probably eliminate the internal truck loading spot that was planned and make the ceilings 55' tall in a larger area than what was formerly planned.

Finally, I'm curious how much MSG is charging for the theatre. Assuming that it's an outrageous amount, that will further fuel the Democrats' opposition to funding this project, which they will characterize as an improper gift to Dolan and Vornado. Once again, I suspect that this project will never come to fruition.

[ChiND]

This is never going to happen. THE MONEY IS NOT THERE, AND IT WILL NOT BE APPROPRIATED BY A HOSTILE CONGRESS. Further, the Administration still thinks that NY is going to pay for a large portion of this!

I'm very curious to know how much Dolan wants for the theatre. I'm sure that the price is astronomical. Good luck having the public pay for that!

For anyone who thinks anything to the contrary, please contact me ASAP about a bridge that I have for sale in Brooklyn!!! It's a classic from 1883.

The Dolans' game is up!

The operating permit should be permitted to expire in 2028, and the tax exemption should be repealed. The time has come to fix this mess by moving THE MOST HEINOUS ARENA IN THE WORLD!

Once MSG has been razed and the thousands of crushing columns have been removed, through-running could be implemented. Four huge, mixed-use towers with thousands of units of housing and office space could be built on the periphery of the site with a raised park in the middle that would allow twenty foot tall ceilings for the underground concourse like Grand Penn had proposed.

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/05/26/t...l-sidesteps-who-will-pay-for-renovations

At a Senate hearing last Tuesday, Duffy told Sen. Kirsten Gilliband that U.S. DOT was “going to give $8 billion to rebuild Penn Station,” which suggested that the feds would cover the entire cost of the project, contradicting Byford’s previous statements. A spokesperson for U.S. DOT told Streetsblog the secretary was referencing the previously reported total cost of the project — not how much the feds plan to chip in.

Andy Byford, the former beloved head of MTA New York City Transit-turned-gleeful cheerleader for the Duffy-Trump team, has also not provided any funding estimate. He has said that the feds won’t pay for the entire project, and that it would involve a private sector developer fronting some of the money.

“There will be a hefty public sector funding element, but that will be topped up by some upfront funding from a master developer who will thereby have skin in the game to get it done and get it done properly and get it done on budget,” Byford told the Permanent Citizens Advisory Committee to the MTA at a briefing in December.

That “public sector funding element” isn’t limited to federal government and Amtrak. Byford has suggested New York will have to have “skin” in the game as well. In January, he said that Amtrak had talked to New York City about paying for some of the project.

[BuildThemTaller]

Originally Posted by ChiND

If the permit is not renewed, MSG cannot have more than 2,500 attendees at any event. That renders MSG useless as an arena. Indeed, that permit is MSG's Achilles Heel.

While Penn is heinous, the real problem is the capacity issue. That has to be fixed, and the Halmar plan does absolutely nothing to address it. The Halmar plan is an $8b vanity project that's about as well-thought as the war in Iran. It's all moot anyway because, as noted, Congress likely won't fund it.

MSG could work out its own deal with Vornado to move voluntarily to the Hotel Penn site, and NY could assist with eminent domain vis-a-vis holdouts who won't sell. Alternatively, MSG could move to the Bronx.

This all makes sense if you have the economic logic of an average 5th grader.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller

This all makes sense if you have the economic logic of an average 5th grader.

Rude once again.

How about saying something relevant?

You seem to be the only person who thinks that MSG could survive as an arena when it's limited to 2,500 attendees per event.

Further, state where you think that the money to build this is coming from.

[BK1985]

Originally Posted by ChiND

Further, state where you think that the money to build this is coming from.

Aren't you the same person who advocated ad nauseum for MSG to be moved across the street? where was the money supposed to come from that considering this is the cheaper option?

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by BK1985

Aren't you the same person who advocated ad nauseum for MSG to be moved across the street? where was the money supposed to come from that considering this is the cheaper option?

That was a more plausible case for funding since it would have dramatically increased train capacity with through running by eliminating MSG and its columns.

Halmar’s project, by contrast, is purely cosmetic, and I guarantee at least $1 billion was promised to Dolan for the theatre. Dems in Congress will not fund that.




The “purchases” required from Dolan are far more comprehensive than I thought. I’m really curious about the price that Jimmy D plans to charge. This is never going to get funded!

Further, it’s now clear why he didn’t want a new arena across the street. He probably hopes to make $2 billion from the sale of MSG’s entrails.

https://nypost.com/2026/05/26/real-estate/penn-station-will-bear-donald-trumps-name-with-a-seal/

Leaked Penn Station renderings show the blighted rail hub will bear Trump’s name with a presidential seal

By Mary K. Jacob
Published May 26, 2026, 5:20 p.m. ET

Documents indicate the federal government would need to purchase the Theater at MSG, portions of the arena façade, signage, sidewalks along 31st and 33rd streets and loading zones currently used for deliveries.

[BuildThemTaller]

Originally Posted by ChiND

Rude once again.

How about saying something relevant?

You seem to be the only person who thinks that MSG could survive as an arena when it's limited to 2,500 attendees per event.

Further, state where you think that the money to build this is coming from.

When you can't make rational arguments, invent things other people are saying to try to sound smart. No one besides you is threatening to pull MSG's license to operate. You are spending other people's money and invoking authority you don't have to make a point that doesn't hold up to the lightest amount of scrutiny. Please stop spamming this forum with your inanity.

[NYguy]

Updated renders....


https://nypost.com/2026/05/26/real-estate/penn-station-will-bear-donald-trumps-name-with-a-seal/

[ChiND]

This looks great. Let’s see what happens.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller

When you can't make rational arguments, invent things other people are saying to try to sound smart. No one besides you is threatening to pull MSG's license to operate.

MSG isn't going anywhere. And besides, if it did, it would be replaced by towers. Those millions of square feet of development rights won't just vanish. The City will never pull permits for the Garden. One reason is that Penn Station is the only reason it's allowed to exist where it does. Beyond that, it's the crown jewel of arenas, the "world's most famous", that brings in untold revenue to the City. (And now, the NBA Finals!) There are people who are irrational about the topic, for some reason. But it has already been settled.


Another look at the old and updated rendering from 8th Avenue....

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Beyond that, it's the crown jewel of arenas,

lol sure.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by MAC123

lol sure.

I am quite sure.

[ChiND]

NY Guy:

Have you seen anything to indicate if the mid-block train halls are still part of this project?

There is no mention of them in any of these articles, but one of the articles discussed buying land from MSG on 31st and 33rd Streets and that presumably would be for the train halls. That being said, another article mentioned having new windows overlooking the midblock taxi stand.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by ChiND

NY Guy:

Have you seen anything to indicate if the mid-block train halls are still part of this project?

There is no mention of them in any of these articles, but one of the articles discussed buying land from MSG on 31st and 33rd Streets and that presumably would be for the train halls. That being said, another article mentioned having new windows overlooking the midblock taxi stand.

That’s always been part of their plan since it was first published. One of the differences here is that the feds will be paying for everythinh, incuding the MSG recladding. The “bridge” won’t be rebuilt as in an earlier MTA plan.