Statistics Canada Reports II

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I'm afraid Saskatoon and Kingston didn't make the cut

The two usual suspects for Canada are there.

Its evaluation criteria is clearly flawed. It needs to award more points for dilapidated student housing and sidewalks filled with doddering old people and homeless drug users.

[zoomer]

Seems like another list whose main purpose is to put the management consulting firm's name into the media/public consciousness through generating a Top X list based on a hodge podge of Western perspective criteria.

And to be fair, it's not a ranking of top or most important cities as they state the list "assesses the extent to which cities are able to attract, retain, and generate global flows of capital, people, and ideas."

And the wild swings from year to year, the forward looking list is quite different.

"Where the Global Cities Index captures current performance, the Global Cities Outlook offers a forward-looking assessment, evaluating how effectively the world’s leading metros are creating conditions for future success."



All of which is to say - I think they missed putting Kitimat BC on this list as they seem to have done a great job of attracting "global flows of capital, people, and ideas".

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

cold in the prairies is still flipping cold no matter where it is. I don’t know why people need to bizarrely one up one another with variations of the same frostbiting weather being some subjective variation of “warmer” when you still need winter tires, a block heater, a winter jacket just to exist outside for more than a minute and your snot still freezes instantly

Agreed, once you get into say -20 or colder, it's simply cold. Calgary can get cold, but with Calgary (if we're comparing prairie cities) the difference is that you don't get those blistering cold days very often, they're the exception. This past winter out of 120 days there were 18 days where the overnight low was colder than -20C (the coldest being -23C)
There were 5 days where the daytime high was colder than -15C. The biggest difference though is the number of daytime highs above 0C. This past winter Calgary had 83 out of 120 days that were warmer than freezing averaging 9C on those 83 days.

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

I lived in Calgary and the Coldest day I have ever experienced was valentines weekend Calgary 2016 when it was -50 outside

That must have been with a high wind chill. The coldest day in Calgary's history was -45C in 1893, and -36C being the coldest in the past 25 years.

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

Agreed, once you get into say -20 or colder, it's simply cold. Calgary can get cold, but with Calgary (if we're comparing prairie cities) the difference is that you don't get those blistering cold days very often, they're the exception. This past winter out of 120 days there were 18 days where the overnight low was colder than -20C (the coldest being -23C)
There were 5 days where the daytime high was colder than -15C. The biggest difference though is the number of daytime highs above 0C. This past winter Calgary had 83 out of 120 days that were warmer than freezing averaging 9C on those 83 days.

That might be more than Kingston/Toronto this winter (although this was definitely an unusually cold and miserable winter in Southern Ontario).

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Pavlov

That might be more than Kingston/Toronto this winter (although this was definitely an unusually cold and miserable winter in Southern Ontario).

It was what my Mom and Uncle labeled a traditional Canadian winter (like the ones they recall growing up)
The past decade or so, southern Ontario has been blessed with much milder winters with only the occasional snowstorm.

Toronto and beyond (to the east out your way towards Kingston area, to the west towards Lake Huron, and Northern Ontario) got it noticeably worse than Niagara this winter. I recall chatting with niwell when he showed me photos he took of the dumping of snow in Toronto proper and thought "thank goodness we didn't get that much in one storm this winter".
Northern Ontario seemed to get a much worse winter than they were starting to get accustomed to lately as well.

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

This past winter Calgary had 83 out of 120 days that were warmer than freezing averaging 9C on those 83 days.

Calgary is marginally warmer than other prairie cities in November. The real pronounced difference is the 90 days from Dec-Feb. Going back the last 5 winters you can see Calgary averages close to 2/3rds of the 90 day stretch with temps getting into the plusses.

2025-2026 61 days
2024-2025 53 days
2023-2024 61 days
2022-2023 54 days
2021-2022 52 days

Originally Posted by Pavlov

That might be more than Kingston/Toronto this winter (although this was definitely an unusually cold and miserable winter in Southern Ontario).

Dec-Feb in Calgary was fairly typical, but year, Kingston/Toronto had a colder than normal winter from the looks of it.
Calgary had 61 days above freezing while Toronto had 42.

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

I lived in Calgary and the Coldest day I have ever experienced was valentines weekend Calgary 2016 when it was -50 outside

Not to be a nitpicker, but are you sure of those dates? Valentine's weekends from 2014 to 2018 were all above freezing. February, 12th of 2019 was -17C a low of -29C, which also was the 4th coldest day in history of Calgary Februarys.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

part of why Edmonton is so cheap is because suburban development is simply cheaper to build.

Condos are also cheap because there is no demand for them, there isn't a lot of construction of new ones as they generally aren't profitable in the downtown.

Edmonton is ultimately cheap because it's not overly desirable either. The downtown isn't particularly attractive and the climate is one of the harshest for a major city on the planet.

Calgary is probably a better blend of relative affordability and desirability, though is a bit more expensive because of that desirability. Even in Calgary you can still buy detached homes for like $500,000.

Originally Posted by Harrison

Your climate assumption is a bit extreme. We didn't even crack -30 this winter - I think southern Ontario had more days below -20 honestly this year lol

I'd say our weather is more steady than Calgary's and we have a longer growing season, so not sure your argument holds much water. For harsh climates, look at the Persian Gulf or Siberia.

I want to go back to this because this is where this thread was entirely derailed around weather which is. . . kind of not the point of this thread. And I think the original point was entirely irrelevant about house prices anyway.

Prices are generally driven by economic activity and social movement. It is more about personal biases in not participating in that economic activity than it is about the actual economic activity there.

Why is there 1.7 million people living in Edmonton? A lot of it is to work in the various localities around the city. People can choose to live near where they work and not be constrained in a small area. There is also a municipal government which has been trying to overcome a housing shortage that was present since the 1990s and it is more flexible to allowing construction of homes. The result is that Edmonton house prices didn't go up as much as it did in other cities during the post-pandemic population boom.

Not much of this has to do with weather.

[DavidK93]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Why is there 1.7 million people living in Edmonton? A lot of it is to work in the various localities around the city. People can choose to live near where they work and not be constrained in a small area. There is also a municipal government which has been trying to overcome a housing shortage that was present since the 1990s and it is more flexible to allowing construction of homes. The result is that Edmonton house prices didn't go up as much as it did in other cities during the post-pandemic population boom.

Not much of this has to do with weather.

Not entirely weather related, but it plays a part. It’s not a coincidence that cities like Edmonton and Winnipeg have low house prices. It’s not the whole reason but more desirable cities have higher demand and houses prices will follow.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by DavidK93

Not entirely weather related, but it plays a part. It’s not a coincidence that cities like Edmonton and Winnipeg have low house prices. It’s not the whole reason but more desirable cities have higher demand and houses prices will follow.

Here's the thing: no, it doesn't. It merely suggests the reason why don't want to move there. But others have. Prices are determined by the ability to have a home and the amount of money that can be made.

There is a lot of money to be made in Edmonton. Where you can make that money is not concentrated. Where you can buy a home is also not concentrated.

This is much more important than riding thermometers.

[Chocolite]

It's not that Edmonton isn't desirable, cold winters aside, it's not desirable from an urban standpoint. Of the largest 6-8 metros, it's the least urban, but depending on what you're into it has other things to offer. Taking into account the level of wages and the cost of housing, it's the only major city where you can afford a 2,000 sq ft home with a yard and a large double garage and still be only a 20 minute drive to downtown.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Chocolite

It's not that Edmonton isn't desirable, cold winters aside, it's not desirable from an urban standpoint. Of the largest 6-8 metros, it's the least urban, but depending on what you're into it has other things to offer. Taking into account the level of wages and the cost of housing, it's the only major city where you can afford a 2,000 sq ft home with a yard and a large double garage and still be only a 20 minute drive to downtown.

I think you are being very generous. I would say of Canada's 20 largest metros it's the most dislikeable. In fact, short of Thunder Bay, Sudbury, or Chicoutimi, I can't think of a single metro that has a worse downtown. Yes, it's only a 20 minute drive to downtown but the problem is that there is absolutely no reason to go downtown unless you are going to the theatre or a concert and even then people quickly depart. There is not a single block of a "complete street" and it's grungy and dangerous to boot. Strathcona is very nice but due to being on the other side of the river, it is completely detached from downtown.

Edmonton is an affordable city but outside of that it has shockingly little to offer. It's an OK city if you want to live a suburban lifestyle but offers little else. One small area of urbanism in a metro of 1.7 million is beyond pathetic. Considering Calgary and Edmonton are just 300km apart, the difference between the 2 is a chasm.

[craner]

^Well that is severely harsh and untrue.

[trueviking]

Agreed. Winnipeg is clearly the most dislikable.
Step off our lawn, Edmonton.

[trueviking]

Those Calgary temperatures are wild.
Jerks.

[DavidK93]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I think you are being very generous. I would say of Canada's 20 largest metros it's the most dislikeable. In fact, short of Thunder Bay, Sudbury, or Chicoutimi, I can't think of a single metro that has a worse downtown.

I wouldn't go that far lol. Behind the other large metros, yes, and I would also say behind QC, Winnipeg and Hamilton. You could even make a case for having a less urban downtown than Victoria, but nowhere near Thunder Bay or Sudbury.

Edmonton's issue is the downtown is too spread out. The vibrant part of the city, Whyte Ave is across the valley and not really near downtown. On the north side of the river, there is vibrancy in little pockets here and there, but the pockets aren't near each other. With a small population spread over a large area it's sparsely populated, and retail has struggled. Overall the problem can be fixed with more people, but between the crime and lack of retail, it's hard to get people into the downtown. It's a catch 22.

[DavidK93]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Those Calgary temperatures are wild.
Jerks.

Calgary's got nothing on the coastal winter weather, so I guess we're the jerks!

[harls]

Yeah, but that White Rock...

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by craner

^Well that is severely harsh and untrue.

Ya, a bit harsh but I don't think it's untrue. Obviously it's fairly busy during the day due to employment but the city is devoid of life after that or on weekends. There isn'tt a single block of a complete street or where one can just sit and watch the crowds go by. One can certainly do it on Whyte but Whyte's success has drained the downtown. For a city of 1.7 million, it's downtown really is pretty awful.

The Ice District is a good start at a revival but the downtown was levelled to such an extent, added by the abomination of WEM, has probably killed the downtown for good.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by harls

Yeah, but that White Rock...