Statistics Canada Reports II

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Is Edmonton really not nearly as cold as Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon??

It's not. While it can get as cold for periods of time, it doesn't usually last as long. The dark in Edmonton is serious though.

I have lived in all four of those cities. That low sun in winter in Edmonton makes it dark quick and it's always straight into your eyes.

[ssiguy]

There is a huge variation in London's snow fall. The northern areas of the city are definitely in the snowbelt and gets about as much snow as Ottawa. Then you go to the southern tip of the city which borders St.Thomas and it gets 70cm less and go SW along the 401 by 60km and you get 100cm less. Of course even in the northern areas , the snowpack is still substantially less than Ottawa due to warmer temperatures periodically melting the snow which you don't get in Ottawa.

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by jonny24

I grew up in Norfolk and that definitely is SWO.

To me the line is ~roughly the Grand River, extending a bit east of that because of the big cities that straddle it. KWC is certainly SWO.

Haldimand County being formerly part of a combined Haldimand-Norfolk, is split physically and regionally by the Grand. The western side is SWO and the eastern side is Niagara Peninsular, to me anyway.

To return to the original point - Montreal and Ottawa are Siberia compared to Hamilton, too

I never considered KWC to be part of SWO - I always considered it to be part of the Greater Golden Horseshoe or 'extended' GTA.

I consider SWO to start at the Oxford County line on the 401 - basically draw a straight line SE from there to Port Colborne and another straight E to Grand Bend.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Yeah, Edmonton's winters are warmer than Saskatoon, Regina, and Winnipeg despite being further North. So it is not Novosibirsk FFS

Some perspective is warranted though: it might be milder than some other prairie cities, but it still has 5 months of below freezing means, with the coldest month averaging below -10. Amongst major (>1 million) North American metros, it easily has the longest and coldest winters; and is likely colder than any other major city outside of a few in Northern China, Mongolia, or Russia.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Some perspective is warranted though: it might be milder than some other prairie cities, but it still has 5 months of below freezing means, with the coldest month averaging below -10. Amongst major (>1 million) North American metros, it easily has the longest and coldest winters; and is likely colder than any other major city outside of a few in Northern China, Mongolia, or Russia.

Thank you - this was my original point.. I said harshest for a major city. Saskatoon isn’t a major city.

to suggest that has no influence on the desirability of a city is silly.

Definitely not the be all end all (Windsor isn’t a bastion of high living demand either), but it’s a factor.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Thank you - this was my original point.. I said harshest for a major city. Saskatoon isn’t a major city.

to suggest that has no influence on the desirability of a city is silly.

Definitely not the be all end all (Windsor isn’t a bastion of high living demand either), but it’s a factor.

So Saskatoon isn't a major city in your view? Cool. I'm thinking it plays a bigger roll in Saskatchewan than Hamilton does in Ontario. Guess your opinion is just that....

[roccerfeller]

I always found comparing -33 in prairie city A vs -34 with prairie city B vs -29.5 in prairie city C among the pointless things to debate

I lived in Calgary and the Coldest day I have ever experienced was valentines weekend Calgary 2016 when it was -50 outside

I have been to Edmonton multiple times in multiple separate years in the winter for work related reasons and it has been blistering cold and indistinguishable from the blistering cold of Winnipeg’s worst winter days, where I also lived previously. Actually I have once been, in 2020, in January (Jan 18 specifically) when in the same week it was permafrost with thick snow in Edmonton thick ice on the roads meanwhile a milder -12 or so in winnipeg (actually went up to -3 for several days and snow melted)

cold in the prairies is still flipping cold no matter where it is. I don’t know why people need to bizarrely one up one another with variations of the same frostbiting weather being some subjective variation of “warmer” when you still need winter tires, a block heater, a winter jacket just to exist outside for more than a minute and your snot still freezes instantly

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Edmonton is ultimately cheap because it's not overly desirable either. The downtown isn't particularly attractive and the climate is one of the harshest for a major city on the planet.

Originally Posted by Dalreg

So Saskatoon isn't a major city in your view? Cool. I'm thinking it plays a bigger roll in Saskatchewan than Hamilton does in Ontario. Guess your opinion is just that....

Getting pissy over this sort of comment seems very.... ~2009 Facebook level of discourse.

Look at the above snip - bold is mine. The premise was comparing globally. No, Saskatoon is not in the same tier as Edmonton. That's not an opinion.

[MolsonExport]

Census form arrived in the mail yesterday.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

So Saskatoon isn't a major city in your view? Cool. I'm thinking it plays a bigger roll in Saskatchewan than Hamilton does in Ontario. Guess your opinion is just that....

No, Saskatoon is not a "major" City. It has a metro population of less than 300,000.

What's next, you think Cheyenne or Billings or Burlington VT are "major cities" too because they are the largest in their states? They aren't, just like Saskatoon isn't. That doesn't degrade those places. You can be a very nice small city without being a major city.

I wouldn't call Hamilton a major city either.. why do you assume that? Hell, even calling Edmonton a major city is pushing it on the global scale..

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

I always found comparing -33 in prairie city A vs -34 with prairie city B vs -29.5 in prairie city C among the pointless things to debate

I lived in Calgary and the Coldest day I have ever experienced was valentines weekend Calgary 2016 when it was -50 outside

I have been to Edmonton multiple times in multiple separate years in the winter for work related reasons and it has been blistering cold and indistinguishable from the blistering cold of Winnipeg’s worst winter days, where I also lived previously. Actually I have once been, in 2020, in January (Jan 18 specifically) when in the same week it was permafrost with thick snow in Edmonton thick ice on the roads meanwhile a milder -12 or so in winnipeg (actually went up to -3 for several days and snow melted)

cold in the prairies is still flipping cold no matter where it is. I don’t know why people need to bizarrely one up one another with variations of the same frostbiting weather being some subjective variation of “warmer” when you still need winter tires, a block heater, a winter jacket just to exist outside for more than a minute and your snot still freezes instantly

I totally agree with you. There is a difference during the winter, say between Winnipeg and Calgary especially with Chinooks, but Winnipeg often will get a warm up, just to a lesser degree. Even though there are slight variations, a prairie winter is a prairie winter. A few degrees does not make much of a difference. Edmonton, Saskatoon, Regina and Winnipeg tend to have more similar weather patterns, but Calgary is an outlier to an extent because of where they are situated. Less extreme heat than the other prairie provinces, shorter growing season, etc. But it's not like comparing Winnipeg to Miami.

And the bottom line is that people rarely move just for the climate. It is a factor but does not top the list of reasons why people relocate.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

No, Saskatoon is not a "major" City. It has a metro population of less than 300,000.

What's next, you think Cheyenne or Billings or Burlington VT are "major cities" too because they are the largest in their states? They aren't, just like Saskatoon isn't. That doesn't degrade those places. You can be a very nice small city without being a major city.

I wouldn't call Hamilton a major city either.. why do you assume that? Hell, even calling Edmonton a major city is pushing it on the global scale..

Actually Saskatoon now has a Metro population of 378,000+ (2025 estimate) which means it's now the 18th largest CMA.
It's no longer a podunk on the Prairie even if it doesn't meet major city status. Have you even been to Saskatoon? It's charming and surprisingly one of the most underrated cities in Canada, in my humble opinion. I highly recommend my fellow Canucks to spend time in Saskatoon. Don't write off Saskatchewan in general.

What cities in Canada do you even consider to be major cities?
To me there's world class cities, major cities by North American standards, and then major cities in Canada which are different lists.


https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/...025&referencePeriods=20250101%2C20250101

What a slap in the face to compare it to those other American cities when Saskatoon CMA will soon be over 400k

Cheyenne Metro 102k
Billings Metro 193k
Burlington VT Metro 225k

[MolsonExport]

Canada has two, maybe three world class cities. We all know what they are.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Canada has two, maybe three world class cities. We all know what they are.

well, what do you consider major cities for Canada? The top 3, the top 7 CMAs, or do you include Winnipeg and Québec City as well?
To me, a major city in Canada is any Metro that breaks the 1 million threshold, as that's around 2.5% of the country's total population. Which is different than a major city for North America, and very different than global/world class cities.

[craner]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Census form arrived in the mail yesterday.

Yep - got mine returned right away.

[SFUVancouver]

"Global Cities" is subjective term and depends heavily on what is being considered.

Wikipedia has a good entry on the Alpha, Beta, etc. global cities classification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities_Research_Network

Alpha++ cities are cities most integrated with the global economy

Alpha+ cities are "other highly integrated cities that complement London and New York, largely filling in advanced service needs for the Pacific/Asia [region]"

Alpha and Alpha- cities are "very important world cities that link major economic regions and states into the world economy" [Toronto is an Alpha city]

Beta level cities are cities that link moderate economic regions to the world economy and are classified into three sections: Beta+, Beta, and Beta− cities. [Montreal is a Beta+ city, Calgary is a Beta, and Vancouver a Beta-]

Gamma level cities are cities that link smaller economic regions into the world economy and are classified into three sections: Gamma+, Gamma, and Gamma− cities.

Sufficiency level cities are cities that have a sufficient degree of services so as not to be overly dependent on world cities. This is sorted into high sufficiency cities and sufficiency cities. [Edmonton, Halifax, Ottawa, Winnipeg are Sufficiency cities]

I look at this one periodically and find it generally feels "about right". I could see Ottawa in the Gamma category, though.

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

"Global Cities" is subjective term and depends heavily on what is being considered.

Wikipedia has a good entry on the Alpha, Beta, etc. global cities classification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities_Research_Network



I look at this one periodically and find it generally feels "about right". I could see Ottawa in the Gamma category, though.

GaWC's ranking is produced from a list of global firms from some niche 'higher order' industries. Their presence and concentration in selected cities determines the ranking - hence Calgary being ranked as a more global city than Vancouver, which is suspect, at best.

I personally prefer Kearney's rankings, which appear to me to be a bit more balanced:

https://www.kearney.com/service/national-transformations-institute/gcr/2025-full-report

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Canada has two, maybe three world class cities. We all know what they are.

Calgary and Kingston (in no particular order).

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by Zeej

GaWC's ranking is produced from a list of global firms from some niche 'higher order' industries. Their presence and concentration in selected cities determines the ranking - hence Calgary being ranked as a more global city than Vancouver, which is suspect, at best.

I personally prefer Kearney's rankings, which appear to me to be a bit more balanced:

https://www.kearney.com/service/national-transformations-institute/gcr/2025-full-report

Unfortunately, it only ranks ~150 cities (and only three Canadian cities). Spoiler alert: Saskatoon is not one of those cities.

[MolsonExport]

I'm afraid Saskatoon and Kingston didn't make the cut

The two usual suspects for Canada are there.