O-Train Line 1/3 [Stage 2 | West Extension | Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I suspect the long dwell times are part of the cost cutting measures. They make up some time to make the 10 minute frequency work. I estimate the extra 30 seconds at each station adds roughly 30% to the trip length which also means you can put less trains in the system. I don't really take the O-Train during rush hours, do people notice that the dwell times are shorter on the peak periods?

When the east extension opens they'll have to rework the schedule and frequencies, and I hope the dwell times get shortened as a result.

One thing I have noticed as a semi casual transit user is that the train as compared to the bus has a lot more people not queuing up at the door to exit the train. Like.. its been a little bit.. 12 people have disembarked and now the line of people wishes to enter and you now want to stand up and head to the door? This happens enough that it isn't somebody who is disoriented by the system.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I don't really take the O-Train during rush hours, do people notice that the dwell times are shorter on the peak periods?

Other than Hurdman, uOttawa (between classes all day), maybe Rideau, even during rush hour the dwell times are stupid long. Parliament for some reason seems worse; I'm always wondering if there's a service disruption.

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

One thing I have noticed as a semi casual transit user is that the train as compared to the bus has a lot more people not queuing up at the door to exit the train. Like.. its been a little bit.. 12 people have disembarked and now the line of people wishes to enter and you now want to stand up and head to the door? This happens enough that it isn't somebody who is disoriented by the system.

It's true. Might be because of the ridiculous dwell times, people know they have enough time. I always get up as soon as the train reaches speed towards the next station.

[AuxTown]

We have a double-tracked, grade-separated and relatively frequent transit line. There is no reason to have dwell times that long! I would love to hear from the people who make such decisions, their reasons as I'm sure they have something.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

One thing I have noticed as a semi casual transit user is that the train as compared to the bus has a lot more people not queuing up at the door to exit the train. Like.. its been a little bit.. 12 people have disembarked and now the line of people wishes to enter and you now want to stand up and head to the door? This happens enough that it isn't somebody who is disoriented by the system.

Public transit etiquette was never great to begin with here, but post-COVID it's gotten noticeably worse.

I want to see OC Owl out there on platforms and at bus stops with a bullhorn, getting sweary.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

We have a double-tracked, grade-separated and relatively frequent transit line. There is no reason to have dwell times that long! I would love to hear from the people who make such decisions, their reasons as I'm sure they have something.

I don't know the actual reason for the long dwell times, but I have to imagine it has something to do with avoiding the door faults that plagued the system in the early going. I recall back in 2019 it would take people a lot of time to alight/board during rush hour and some folks would inevitably force the doors open when they closed too soon, causing door faults. Assuming the dwell times are the same throughout the day, they are probably set to accommodate rush hour crush loads and not the off peak ridership.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

I don't know the actual reason for the long dwell times, but I have to imagine it has something to do with avoiding the door faults that plagued the system in the early going. I recall back in 2019 it would take people a lot of time to alight/board during rush hour and some folks would inevitably force the doors open when they closed too soon, causing door faults. Assuming the dwell times are the same throughout the day, they are probably set to accommodate rush hour crush loads and not the off peak ridership.

If that's it, and it's entirely possible, they've over corrected by a mile.

We don't get quite the same crush loads as when the system opened either.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If that's it, and it's entirely possible, they've over corrected by a mile.

We don't get quite the same crush loads as when the system opened either.

Totally agree. It's overkill if that's indeed the reason. I'm really not sure what else could explain it.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If that's it, and it's entirely possible, they've over corrected by a mile.

We don't get quite the same crush loads as when the system opened either.

That being said, they may also not be long enough.

I was at Rideau off-peak on a Saturday when single-car trains were running. Half the platform, expecting a double-car train, had to run to catch up with the single front car. The train was very full, and it took a good 10 seconds for passengers to alight. The people from down-platform waited politely at the first door.

But by time the doors were free to allow people to embark, they closed, leaving most of the passengers on the platform.

To add bitter insult to injury, the 10-minute frequency meant that some of the people who'd already been waiting almost 10 minutes would end up almost 20 minutes between getting to the platform and stepping foot on a train.
The whole situation OC has created is so shocking, it borders on farce.

Worse, it seem to be for vanishingly little actual gain; the 10-minute frequencies mean that the trains are over-full and dwell longer, eating into the supposed savings. The single-car trains are over-full, requiring longer dwells, eating into the savings. In the end, how much is actually being saved as opposed to the theoretical spreadsheet savings? Is service that's 50% worse for 20% less really a savings at all?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

That being said, they may also not be long enough.

I was at Rideau off-peak on a Saturday when single-car trains were running. Half the platform, expecting a double-car train, had to run to catch up with the single front car. The train was very full, and it took a good 10 seconds for passengers to alight. The people from down-platform waited politely at the first door.

But by time the doors were free to allow people to embark, they closed, leaving most of the passengers on the platform.

To add bitter insult to injury, the 10-minute frequency meant that some of the people who'd already been waiting almost 10 minutes would end up almost 20 minutes between getting to the platform and stepping foot on a train.
The whole situation OC has created is so shocking, it borders on farce.

Worse, it seem to be for vanishingly little actual gain; the 10-minute frequencies mean that the trains are over-full and dwell longer, eating into the supposed savings. The single-car trains are over-full, requiring longer dwells, eating into the savings. In the end, how much is actually being saved as opposed to the theoretical spreadsheet savings? Is service that's 50% worse for 20% less really a savings at all?

Agreed. Those 10 minute frequencies mid-day are incredibly frustrating and are creating more congestion than at rush hour. And on weekends, capacity was essentially cut to a quarter of what it was by both moving to single trains (which is fine) and cutting frequency from 5 to 10 minutes (which is not so fine). All that to save $1.6 million per year (frequency cut, don't know about the half trains). We're moving to an American style transit service. I'm sure many people have given up on transit mid-day, representing way more than $1.6 million.

Meanwhile, we're fine spending $17.4 million every year for Lansdowne 2.0. I think more people would benefit from 5 minute frequency than new sports facilities destroying what was built/renovated a decade ago.

When it comes to Lansdowne, City finances are in great shape! When it comes to OC, City's broke.

[Uhuniau]

Most, or at least much, of the time, the reduced service can handle the load. But anecdatally, I'm finding those short trains and 10-minute headways are starting to cause more and more cramped trains. Great for OC Transpo's bottom line. A terrible way to try and get errands and life done on a Saturday or Sunday.

And the surges seem to be fairly unpredictable.

[ponyboycurtis]

OC Transpo is just brain damaged. I don't care about the fact they are under funded. They are literally stupid to the gills.

Catching a Line 2 train the other day in the piss pouring rain. Single car. Stops at the far side of the platform SB at Greenboro as far away from the overpass as possible.

I demand explanations at some point.

[lrt's friend]

It is City Council that is tying OC's hands as far as improving service. Talk to your councillor. Ridership is increasing as the PS returns to the office, but no plans to improve service. All the increased revenue is going towards the transit deficit, none to deal with ridership.

The rail finances have always been a disaster, when the province left the city covering more than half the cost. The provincial upload cannot happen soon enough.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

OC Transpo is just brain damaged. I don't care about the fact they are under funded. They are literally stupid to the gills.

Catching a Line 2 train the other day in the piss pouring rain. Single car. Stops at the far side of the platform SB at Greenboro as far away from the overpass as possible.

I demand explanations at some point.

The stopping locations of the trains are always at the front of the platforms, no matter what. Operators can't just stop the train wherever they want. They have to stop at the designated markers.

You call it stupidity while having no understanding of the regulatory environment governing their operations. I understand people being frustrated and asking questions about these things, but assuming it's just sheer stupidity is naive.

[AuxTown]

While I have no ideas about stopping location, I do have questions about wear and tear on the trains. Why are 3 train sets sitting out at Moodie, fully exposed to the elements, when there is a perfectly good shed/structure 20 feet away? They don't appear to be moving or testing these trains so why are they sitting out exposed to the elements in stead of in the partially closed shed....or even the fully-enclosed maintenance facility? I'm sure one of you has the answer....

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I was at Rideau off-peak on a Saturday when single-car trains were running. Half the platform, expecting a double-car train, had to run to catch up with the single front car. The train was very full, and it took a good 10 seconds for passengers to alight. The people from down-platform waited politely at the first door.

OK but why are people still expecting a big train on the weekend when every five seconds there's a message about the baby trains?

But also they need to stop with the baby trains.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

The stopping locations of the trains are always at the front of the platforms, no matter what. Operators can't just stop the train wherever they want. They have to stop at the designated markers.

You call it stupidity while having no understanding of the regulatory environment governing their operations. I understand people being frustrated and asking questions about these things, but assuming it's just sheer stupidity is naive.

" regulatory environment governing their operations"

How does that supersede stupidity?

The LRT in single train format also seems to spot in the more inconvenient location relative to the platform.

I guess everything is stupid from top to bottom then. Don't go full Pika on me pal

[Kitchissippi]

I noticed that the station signs are finally up at Kichi Sibi. I haven't checked Westboro, but if they're on there as well, all the station identification signs should be done.

The elevator cages seem more lit up than the ones in the older stations. This is going to be the calmest station in the system with no busses to transfer to, and the best to bike up to.

[eltodesukane]

Kichi Sibi or Kichi Zibi ?

Kichi Sibi (or Kichisiibi) is the Algonquin name for the Ottawa River, meaning "Great River,"

Kichi Zībī Mīkan is the new, official name for Ottawa's former Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway, meaning "Great River Road",

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I noticed that the station signs are finally up at Kichi Sibi. I haven't checked Westboro, but if they're on there as well, all the station identification signs should be done.

The elevator cages seem more lit up than the ones in the older stations. This is going to be the calmest station in the system with no busses to transfer to, and the best to bike up to.

That looks great. Love the extra lighting in the cage. The station headhouses are quite nice and distinctive. Just missing the illuminated red lollistop.

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Kichi Sibi or Kichi Zibi ?

Kichi Sibi (or Kichisiibi) is the Algonquin name for the Ottawa River, meaning "Great River,"

Kichi Zībī Mīkan is the new, official name for Ottawa's former Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway, meaning "Great River Road",

I wish the City/NCC would talk and decide on a consistent spelling for everything named with a variation of Kitchissppi.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I wish the City/NCC would talk and decide on a consistent spelling for everything named with a variation of Kitchissppi.

In earlier plans, the station was Kichi Sibi, so this seems to be a change to align with the parkway name.