Cégep de l'Outaouais

[J.OT13]

It's kind of crazy that the rural parts of the Outaouais has no Cegep programs or courses. Sure a lot of programs require a certain critical mass of potential students, but in a Province where anyone who wants to go to University must take a two year pre-univeristy program, basicly an extenision of high school, Sciences Humaines and Science de la Natures should be offered at every rural high school.

Forcing these kids to move away or drive 2+ hours a day on dangerous rural roads for basic education is honestly really concerning.

À quand des études collégiales en milieu rural en Outaouais?

Rosalie Sinclair, Radio-Canada
Publié le 13 septembre à 6 h 04 HAE

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/210...tsecondaire-cegep-outaouais-milieu-rural

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's kind of crazy that the rural parts of the Outaouais has no Cegep programs or courses. Sure a lot of programs require a certain critical mass of potential students, but in a Province where anyone who wants to go to University must take a two year pre-univeristy program, basicly an extenision of high school, Sciences Humaines and Science de la Natures should be offered at every rural high school.

Forcing these kids to move away or drive 2+ hours a day on dangerous rural roads for basic education is honestly really concerning.



https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/210...tsecondaire-cegep-outaouais-milieu-rural

I don't know too much about CEGEP but isn't it a step between High School and University? They do have residences for example at some CEGEPs. If you are arguing for including it in every high school you are bascially talking about adding grade 12 to Quebec no?

I have always been curious what Anglophone students do with CEGEP. Do they only do the first year if they want to go to English University. It would be very strange to show up in second year at most English Universities even McGill is very much a 4 year school and certainly somewhere like Western or Queens where first year indoctrination er orientation is the basis of the whole campus culture it would be very strange.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's kind of crazy that the rural parts of the Outaouais has no Cegep programs or courses. Sure a lot of programs require a certain critical mass of potential students, but in a Province where anyone who wants to go to University must take a two year pre-univeristy program, basicly an extenision of high school, Sciences Humaines and Science de la Natures should be offered at every rural high school.

Forcing these kids to move away or drive 2+ hours a day on dangerous rural roads for basic education is honestly really concerning.



https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/210...tsecondaire-cegep-outaouais-milieu-rural

Well, they have to leave their small towns to go to university as well. I guess leaving to go to CEGEP hastens the age of departure, but if you're going to go to post-secondary it's going to happen eventually no matter what.

I know it's a bit different but if you look at Ontario community colleges, there aren't any in cities like Cornwall or Pembroke either. Quebec actually has twice as many CEGEPs as Ontario has community colleges.

When you graduate from Secondaire 5 in Quebec you are estemeed to have a full secondary education.

Yes CEGEP for the university-bound crowd is seen as the equivalent of Grade 12 (and 13) in Ontario, but if you're learning a trade in CEGEP you're not doing high school stuff. You're learning your trade.

[J.OT13]

Having 17 year olds leave home before they can even vote seems a bit hasty. In Ontario, kids are 18 when they have to leave for college.

Cornwall does have St. Lawrnce College with 31 programs. Pembrooke has an Algonquin Campus with 18 programs. These are all bigger than say Maniwaki, but my minimum expectation is that these villages they would have trades (I think they do) and the basic pre-university programs.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Having 17 year olds leave home before they can even vote seems a bit hasty. In Ontario, kids are 18 when they have to leave for college.

Cornwall does have St. Lawrnce College with 31 programs. Pembrooke has an Algonquin Campus with 18 programs. These are all bigger than say Maniwaki, but my minimum expectation is that these villages they would have trades (I think they do) and the basic pre-university programs.

OK thanks for the info!

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Having 17 year olds leave home before they can even vote seems a bit hasty. In Ontario, kids are 18 when they have to leave for college.

Cornwall does have St. Lawrnce College with 31 programs. Pembrooke has an Algonquin Campus with 18 programs. These are all bigger than say Maniwaki, but my minimum expectation is that these villages they would have trades (I think they do) and the basic pre-university programs.

Is a 17 year od CEGEP student totally independant or is there some moniotring compared to a University student. Attendance taken and some kind of curfew in residence etc?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Is a 17 year od CEGEP student totally independant or is there some moniotring compared to a University student. Attendance taken and some kind of curfew in residence etc?

No there is none of that AFAIK.

When my eldest started CEGEP, there was one and only one meeting with parents prior to the start of the fall session.

They explained to us how things would go in fairly general terms, and then clearly said this was the last time we'd ever hear from them, and the last time they'd ever hear from us.

From that point on, the CEGEP only deals with the students. Even if they are 16 or 17.

A few years ago, the CEGEP wrote to one of my kids because the official diploma hadn't been picked up. This kid lives in Montreal and so I was dispatched to pick it up on their behalf. They wouldn't give it to me - even with a written email from my kid saying that Dad would be picking it up. We had to do a phone call to my kid in Montreal with an identity check in order for me to be able to leave with the diploma.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I don't know too much about CEGEP but isn't it a step between High School and University? They do have residences for example at some CEGEPs. If you are arguing for including it in every high school you are bascially talking about adding grade 12 to Quebec no?

I have always been curious what Anglophone students do with CEGEP. Do they only do the first year if they want to go to English University. It would be very strange to show up in second year at most English Universities even McGill is very much a 4 year school and certainly somewhere like Western or Queens where first year indoctrination er orientation is the basis of the whole campus culture it would be very strange.

The anglophone school system in Quebec is fully integrated into the high school-CEGEP-university structure as well. There are anglophone CEGEPs and they feed into McGill, Concordia and Bishop's very naturally. Just about the only difference is (apparently) in anglophone high schools they don't say Secondary 1, Secondary 2, etc., similar to what we do in French, but instead still say Grade 7, Grade 8, Grade 9, etc. Only they stop at 11.

As such, CEGEP graduates don't show up in second year at McGill. They start in first year.

Though Quebec students who have completed CEGEP generally are admitted into second year at Ontario universities. That was the case at the Ontario university I went to. In second year we got a bunch of Anglo-Montrealer kids as new classmates in the program.

Another quirk is that if a kid doesn't want to do CEGEP, they can go directly to an Ontario university from a Quebec high school, even though it's only equivalent to Grade 11. The condition is that you have to have an 85% average I think. One of my kids actually did this and skipped CEGEP entirely to go to the University of Ottawa. If you do this you do start in first year uni though.

[Acajack]

To further explain CEGEP, very generally there are two streams.

The pre-university stream: typically two years, though some kids take a bit longer and may do a third year while figuring out where they want to go and what to do next

The trades stream: generally three years, which gives you a trade at the end, e.g. electrician, dental hygienist, plumber, paramedic, nursing assistant, etc.

The cost of CEGEP is around 400 dollars per year, all in except books.

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by Acajack

To further explain CEGEP, very generally there are two streams.

The pre-university stream: typically two years, though some kids take a bit longer and may do a third year while figuring out where they want to go and what to do next

The trades stream: generally three years, which gives you a trade at the end, e.g. electrician, dental hygienist, plumber, paramedic, nursing assistant, etc.

The cost of CEGEP is around 400 dollars per year, all in except books.

I think you're mixing up trades and college degrees. A DEP is typically done at a trades school (centre de formation professionnelle) and can last anywhere from a few months to close to two years (18 months for electricians). This includes some of your examples (electrician, plumber, etc).

Meanwhile, a DEC is a three-year degree (une technique) done at a CÉGEP, and it's the kind of degree you would do at Algonquin. This includes social workers, dental hygienists, cops, educators for young children, engineering technicians, etc.

Ontario also has these three streams (trades, college, university). The big difference is that CÉGEP is common to both the college and university stream, as students are funnelled through CÉGEP for a pre-university DEC.

[Acajack]

Are you sure about that? Because this is the biggest Centre de formation professionnelle in the Outaouais: https://cco.cssd.gouv.qc.ca/

Look at the programs they have.

This is more an educational and job re-insertion thing for "adults" who may have interrupted their schooling at a younger age.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The anglophone school system in Quebec is fully integrated into the high school-CEGEP-university structure as well. There are anglophone CEGEPs and they feed into McGill, Concordia and Bishop's very naturally. Just about the only difference is (apparently) in anglophone high schools they don't say Secondary 1, Secondary 2, etc., similar to what we do in French, but instead still say Grade 7, Grade 8, Grade 9, etc. Only they stop at 11.

As such, CEGEP graduates don't show up in second year at McGill. They start in first year.

Though Quebec students who have completed CEGEP generally are admitted into second year at Ontario universities. That was the case at the Ontario university I went to. In second year we got a bunch of Anglo-Montrealer kids as new classmates in the program.

Another quirk is that if a kid doesn't want to do CEGEP, they can go directly to an Ontario university from a Quebec high school, even though it's only equivalent to Grade 11. The condition is that you have to have an 85% average I think. One of my kids actually did this and skipped CEGEP entirely to go to the University of Ottawa. If you do this you do start in first year uni though.

So at the end of CEGEP your choice is straight to professional school even medical school at a French University or first year at McGill? That is quite a difference. French Universities have 3 year bacherlors generally no?

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Are you sure about that? Because this is the biggest Centre de formation professionnelle in the Outaouais: https://cco.cssd.gouv.qc.ca/

Look at the programs they have.

This is more an educational and job re-insertion thing for "adults" who may have interrupted their schooling at a younger age.

Well, trades *are* for people who interrupt their schooling at a younger age, as they mostly do not require a high-school degree.

That specific you pointed out is limited, but look at the program list of their parent entity . There's basically every trade you can think of. Compare that to cégep de l'Outaouais, which has things like building engineering or programming, but no trades like electrician or plumber.

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

So at the end of CEGEP your choice is straight to professional school even medical school at a French University or first year at McGill? That is quite a difference. French Universities have 3 year bacherlors generally no?

From the McGill website:

A typical undergraduate degree at McGill is 120–140 credits (four years of full-time study). Quebec CEGEP students typically receive 30 credits of Advanced Standing, so they will usually only have a further 90–110 credits (three years of full-time study) to complete.

In that sense, McGill works like an Ontario university, which might credit you a year for your CÉGEP classes.
Traditionally, it's true that Québec bachelors are 3 years, but there's been coursework inflation in certain sectors. Engineering and teaching are both 4 year bachelors (which does mean that Québec students in those programs end up doing an extra year overall).

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kelnoz

I think you're mixing up trades and college degrees. A DEP is typically done at a trades school (centre de formation professionnelle) and can last anywhere from a few months to close to two years (18 months for electricians). This includes some of your examples (electrician, plumber, etc).

Meanwhile, a DEC is a three-year degree (une technique) done at a CÉGEP, and it's the kind of degree you would do at Algonquin. This includes social workers, dental hygienists, cops, educators for young children, engineering technicians, etc.

Ontario also has these three streams (trades, college, university). The big difference is that CÉGEP is common to both the college and university stream, as students are funnelled through CÉGEP for a pre-university DEC.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Are you sure about that? Because this is the biggest Centre de formation professionnelle in the Outaouais: https://cco.cssd.gouv.qc.ca/

Look at the programs they have.

This is more an educational and job re-insertion thing for "adults" who may have interrupted their schooling at a younger age.

Confirming Kelnoz's comment. So pre-University (two years), Techniques (three years) and Trades. There is some overlap between CFPs and Cégeps, but generaly Cégeps have the career programs (architecture, techniques policière, health professionals...) while CFPs have trades (plumber, électricien, brick laying).

Originally Posted by YOWetal

So at the end of CEGEP your choice is straight to professional school even medical school at a French University or first year at McGill? That is quite a difference. French Universities have 3 year bacherlors generally no?

Yes, Quebec has three years bachelors. I guess because intermediate Cegep is two years, they figure they can knock off a year at the bachelor level (so 13 years before university instead of 12 years in Ontario). Medical school is also quite different than other provinces, but I'm still too confused to explain that one.

[harls]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Having 17 year olds leave home before they can even vote seems a bit hasty. In Ontario, kids are 18 when they have to leave for college.

My brother was 17 when he started his engineering degree at the University of Manitoba. His birthday was in December.

He couldn't even go to the university bar for the first couple of months.

Same thing happened to me at Carleton, I had just turned 18 a month before starting classes and couldn't *legally* go to a bar in Ottawa.

Hull on the other hand...

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kelnoz

From the McGill website:


In that sense, McGill works like an Ontario university, which might credit you a year for your CÉGEP classes.
Traditionally, it's true that Québec bachelors are 3 years, but there's been coursework inflation in certain sectors. Engineering and teaching are both 4 year bachelors (which does mean that Québec students in those programs end up doing an extra year overall).

Engineering has coop, hence the extra year. It's 5 years in Ontario. I would assume teaching is simmilar?

Originally Posted by harls

My brother was 17 when he started his engineering degree at the University of Manitoba. His birthday was in December.

He couldn't even go to the university bar for the first couple of months.

Same thing happened to me at Carleton, I had just turned 18 a month before starting classes and couldn't *legally* go to a bar in Ottawa.

Hull on the other hand...

Maybe Hull is the reason Ottawa Universities are so popular for out of town students.

[J.OT13]

Anotehr point on the lack of pre-university programs in rural areas; Cégeps, in Gatineau at least, have little to no student housing and finding market housing is difficult and expensive. Bringing a few programs to these areas might actually help the housing crisis.

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Yes, Quebec has three years bachelors. I guess because intermediate Cegep is two years, they figure they can knock off a year at the bachelor level (so 13 years before university instead of 12 years in Ontario). Medical school is also quite different than other provinces, but I'm still too confused to explain that one.

Medical school is simpler, if anything! You do your pre-university DEC, then a prep year, and then right into the MD program.
My understanding is that the prep year is to complete the kind of courses that would be mandatory to apply to an MD program in say Ontario. I'm not sure every university even has one, McGill and UdeM do for sure, but USherbrooke doesn't seem to have information on that.

To be honest med school in the anglosphere baffles me. If the requirement is a 4 year degree in whatever, then the 4 year degree is irrelevant to your qualification... Some schools only require a handful of specific classes, doesn't it sting when all that matters in your entire degree is a few biology and chemistry courses?

[Kelnoz]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Engineering has coop, hence the extra year. It's 5 years in Ontario. I would assume teaching is similar?

That's not true, it's really 4 years (120 credits), even longer with coop. See this one for example. There's a single 4 months mandatory internship over one Summer, but there's still 8 full study semesters, just like a 120 credits Ontario program.

When doing coop, Sherbrooke does adds an extra semester at the end of your 4 years, which gives you 8 study semesters and 4 coops.

If you want to be pedantic, uOttawa for example has 132 credits for their engineering courses, but that's usually mashed into the regular 4 year schedule by having 18 credit semesters. I'm not sure if others do it, but it's generally not the norm for 4 year degrees.