[Saint John, NB] Kennebecasis Valley Developments

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Not sure how there's not already a thread for KV developments, or another one for Grand Bay and other suburban regions/ bedroom communities of Saint John. But here's one for KV!






This is a pretty big announcement for the future of recreation in Greater Saint John. Rothesay and Quispamsis both do much better jobs at investing in recreational facilities for their residents than Saint John does, but this facility will still be utilized by many residents of Saint John. The Saint John Region is really lacking in in terms of ice rinks, and it seems like any sort of "regional ice strategy" remains dead in the water.

I wonder, will Saint John residents have to pay a user fees to take part in free community programs offered at the new rink and multi generational recreation facility, like at the Q-Plex? Saint John didn't end up imposing recreation user fees on KV residents to use their rinks and recreational facilities, so I hope that means Rothesay is willing to do the same here for SJ residents with these new facilities.

Does anyone know if the new Rothesay Arena will be a multiplex, and if so, how many ice surfaces? Any details on what is envisioned for this multigenerational recreation facility? All in all, it seems like a very positive development, and good to see government funding going towards building more rinks here in the Saint John Region.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

As for other KV developments. Is there any word on projects taller than six storeys in the development pipeline? The Kennebecasis river valley has some of the most scenic tidal waterways in Canada, and the view from even 10 storeys up would be nothing short of spectacular in quite a few more prominent locations around KV.

Surely, with all the baby boomer and older generations getting set to sell their houses, and move into something smaller with less maintenance, there would be a market for seniors who want to sell their homes and purchase a nice little condo in a high rise and stay in the valley. There's been a lot of debate as to why condos have yet to be embraced in urban core of Saint John, but perhaps they'd be an easier sell in the valley?



The river valley would be quite an amazing setting to wake up to with your morning coffee every morning, and as this picture clearly shows, a big part of the Kennebecasis Valley is located within the city limits of Saint John. The Kennebecasis Valley remains a prime locale to build some premium mid rise or high rise condos with river views—without having to build upon much more expensive, waterfront properties, which also come with greater flood risk and issues with erosion.

I don't get out that way very often, and am not even sure what's the tallest residential building in all of Kennebecasis Valley... I guess it would Brentwood Tower, but is there currently anything built or proposed for outside the city limits over 10 storeys?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Interesting, I wonder how “large scale” this project will be.

[bingun]

From Rothesay's PAC on March 17th -

A new drive-through restaurant was discussed; I assume this is the anticipated Wendy's, especially as the design example is such.

110-112 Hampton Road Keel Property Holdings Ltd.
OWNER: Keel Property Holdings Ltd.
PID: 30350912
PROPOSAL: Conditional Use – Restaurant (Drive-Through)

Peaked roof (recommended by staff)

• Functional and compatible with neighbourhood/other restaurants – ex. Cask and Kettle (Rothesay); North Conway, New Hampshire Wendy’s (design example)

The franchise does not generate as much traffic as other popular fast-food chains.

When questioned, Mr. Amin mentioned the building will be 2500 sq. ft. and seat 30. He added based
on a study, it was determined a drive-through restaurant would be preferable for this location.

MOVED by Counc. Shea and seconded by M. Graham the Planning Advisory Committee hereby approves the Conditional Use application for the drive through restaurant at 110-112 Hampton Road (PID 30350912), subject to the following terms and conditions:

1. That the proponent prepares a detailed landscaping plan showing the proposed landscaping for the subject site including the location and species of all proposed plantings and existing trees to be retained. This landscaping plan is subject to the approval of the Development Officer and is to be included with the Building Permit application.
2. That a pedestrian walkway accessing the site from Hampton Road is provided, along with signage and pavement markings where the walkway crosses the drive through lane and that these elements be maintained by the proponent.
3. That the proponent provides drawings detailing the exterior design and elevations of the building for the review and approval of the Development Officer and that these drawings be submitted with the application for the required building permit. The exterior design of the building must incorporate a peaked roof.

There was also a significant development discussed for the large plot across the street from Kent Building Supplies.

Millennium Dr./Campbell Dr. zzap Consulting Inc.
OWNER: Scott Brothers Ltd. (PID 30227086)
Sandra Jean Shea (PID 00173443)
PID: 30227086 & 00173443 (portion)
PROPOSAL: Mixed-Use Development

DPDS Reade highlighted the following:
- Development agreement required under Section 131 of the Community Planning Act
- Proposal
o Mixed-use development (1277 residential units)
▪ Single-family homes
▪ Stacked townhouses
▪ Multi-unit dwellings
▪ Commercial units (area of 93,801 sq. ft.)
o Focus on density transitioning – single family homes adjacent to existing single-family homes, followed by townhouses (medium density), and then multi-unit/commercial buildings (closer to Campbell Dr./Millennium Dr.)
o Ground floor commercial (ex. grocery), upper levels residential – not to exceed four storeys in total

Mr. Zwicker introduced himself and his business partners. Mr. Zwicker gave a presentation, highlighting the following:
- Site – location and size (56.3 acres)
- Wetland confirmation (light blue) which differs from the provincial estimate (darker blue)
o Further land acquisition in progress but not finalized
o There are constraints but development can occur on the portions of the site that are within the Provincially regulated watershed and wellfield that supplies drinking water, with proper approvals for suitable projects (ex. fuel or fertilizer storage not permitted)
- Site constraints
o Wetland, existing neighbourhood, road access only available from Millennium Drive (near back entrance to Kent) not Campbell Drive
- Building types
o Single Family lots roughly 700 sq. m.
o Stacked Townhouses – single unit below, two-unit above with separate entrances
o Multi-unit dwellings with some over commercial properties
- Urban design with ground floor street facing commercial units
- Review of Phases 1-5
o Phase 1 - six buildings roughly 400 units – aligns with municipal service connections
o whole project to occur over a 15–20-year period
o Phases will not get built if there is no interest
- Neighbourhood vision – examples were provided which align with the focus on community, walkability, courtyards, street grid, trail system, greenspace, safety and lighting, tenant needs (ex. possible playground), building design (lighter materials on top).

[dhottawa729]

MARY-ELLEN SAUNDERS
TELEGRAPH-JOURNAL
Published Wednesday July 29th, 2009

ROTHESAY - An engineer and former Kennebecaisis Valley resident has suggested a town centre with space for shops and restaurants on the land be built on the corner of Campbell Drive and Millennium Drive.

"Imagine taking an evening stroll down a bustling cobblestone street to browse the shops and boutiques of the Kennebecasis Valley and bumping into your neighbours, who are enjoying a latte on a small patio
with jazz music filling the air," <dhottawa729> said.

"Feeling like you're miles away from home, yet you're just down the street. And if you live further away in Gondola Point or K-Park, a short wait and a bus will be along to bring you home."

<dhottawa729> grew up in Quispamsis, studied civil engineering at the University of New Brunswick and now lives in Ottawa, where he works as a transportation planner.

<dhottawa729> said even though he does not live in New Brunswick, he follows local news and is interested in seeing his hometown prosper, which is why, when given the opportunity. he submitted a proposal to the Town of Rothesay during its municipal plan review. <dhottawa729> suggested a town centre be built on the site where a Wal-Mart was once proposed in Rothesay.

"As a former resident, I have always wondered why this town had no traditional core," <dhottawa729> wrote in his letter to town council.

"Since these towns evolved with no distinct commercial sector, it would be an interesting idea to build a town centre complete with a traditional main street, brick-faced buildings, streetfront shopping, on-street parking, restaurants with patios, boutiques and residential units above."

<dhottawa729> said commercial development in the Valley has been mostly on Hampton Road, which is not a very pedestrian friendly area. He said the development on Hampton Road is spread out and the road is also used as a thoroughfare for traffic. He said travelling the road to do shopping is a bit stressful and not ideal for the area's commercial district.

The civil engineer suggested a town centre similar to the ones in Pearland in Houston. Texas, Nashville, Tennessee, or Kanata Centrum in Ottawa could transform the area from a bedroom community to a vibrant town. Rothesay Mayor Bill Bishop said the land is owned privately and to date the town has not had any proposals that look at that approach.

"Our town centre is the Rothesay Common, it has been for decades and it will continue to be," Bishop said,

"Rothesay is sort of unique in that we concentrate more on the residential aspect. We realize there are needs for services but we're not interested in developing a great number of commercial outlets. We are interested in keeping land for residential development."

Phil Brodersen, president of the Kennebecasis Valley Chamber of Commerce, said a project such as the one <dhottawa729> suggested would be quite an investment and while it is easy to make the suggestion, there isn't someone stepping forward who is prepared to do it.

"Hampton Road is already established and to try and get businesses to relocate might be a challenge," Brodersen said. "I think it's going to be a hard sell."

<dhottawa729> said he would love to invest in a town centre such as the one he has proposed but is too early in his career to have the assets to do so. He suggested the centre could be built by a private business or on a private-public partnership with Quispamsis and Rothesay jointly working on the project.

"I think investors would be very interested, provided the concept was presented in a way that makes it look like an exciting opportunity to do something different and is backed by community support," <dhottawa729>
said.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by bingun

I haven't seen this one mentioned much, and similar to yesterday, I was driving by, so I grabbed a few pictures. If you drive between Saint John and Sussex, this is visible from the highway in either direction.

Specifically, it is on Millennium Drive in Quispamsis, next to the OK Tire and the two apartment buildings.

Here is the end result, looks like its almost ready.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

If you think getting something approved in Saint John is difficult, look at this proposed development in Rothesay. There is a public hearing on Monday, and there is a stack of letters against this, presentations, and a petition! You'd think they are building an apartment building.

https://www.rothesay.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/2025June16CameronRoad-Public-Hearing-FINAL.pdf

Dang. That is some next level NIMBYism 😅

[bingun]

Quispamsis, Rothesay to test out KV transit service this summer

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/quispamsis-rothesay-to-test-out-kv-transit-service-this-summer

Quispamsis council voted Tuesday to approve the KV Go demonstration project, which is a free service that would run seven days a week, eight hours per day for at least three months, town CAO Ian Watson said. The project, funded by $65,000 from both communities, will involve a contractor driving an accessible bus along a set route, including shopping and recreation hot spots, Watson told a committee of the whole meeting.

Quispamsis manager of planning Dwight Colbourne told the committee that after a few different route options, they settled on an inner route and an outer route, each just under an hour, with the inner route being run twice for every one run on the outer route. That allows the service to reach the highest-priority destinations while also collecting riders from residential areas, he said.

[bingun]

The public meeting for the proposed project on Millennium Drive/Campbell Drive is scheduled for July 21st.

https://www.rothesay.ca/public-meeting-notice-millennium-drive-mixed-use-development-proposal/

The proposal includes 1277 dwelling units of varying sizes and building forms along with a commercial floor area of 8174 square metres (93.801 square feet). The proposed development will include single-detached lots in the northern portion of the site adjacent to existing single unit dwellings along Wedgewood Drive, with stacked townhouse units and 16 four storey buildings in the southwestern portion of the site. Seven of the four storey buildings will incorporate ground floor commercial uses, with residential development on the upper floors. Nine of the four storey buildings will have four floors of residential development.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

PUBLIC MEETING NOTICE – MILLENNIUM DRIVE MIXED-USE DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL

This is a pretty big one for Rothesay... will be interested to see if this will be approved.

[bingun]

I have been keeping an eye on their PAC agendas, and they have been working on this consistently for a few months now, so I think it's more than just an idea.

I am not as familiar with the approval process in Rothesay, but it will be interesting to see when this moves onto the next step and what public opinion will be. I am sure some local residents will come prepared with 26-page PowerPoint presentations to oppose it.

[bingun]

While I didn't attend tonight's public meeting, below is a link to the kit.

https://www.rothesay.ca/wp-content/uploa...ublicMtgMillandCampbellDriveFINALweb.pdf

[sailor734]

Did I read somewhere that this is the same developer behind the stalled Landmark project in the south end by Tin Can Beach?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Did I read somewhere that this is the same developer behind the stalled Landmark project in the south end by Tin Can Beach?

Seems to be a much bigger developer from Dartmouth.

If the Rothesay Council puts the kibosh on this, perhaps the city of Saint John can lure them to build a similar project within the city's portion of the Kennebecasis Valley.

This seems like a very well thought out and very ambitious proposal that I think the council will end up approving as it will be in the best interest of Rothesay and neighbouring Quispamsis to approve such a project. Both communities have a lot of empty nester retirees/soon to retire couples living in houses far too big for two people. Projects like this will enable Quispamasis and Rothesay to retain more of their current residents who are likely to sell their homes and downsize.

That being said, the Rothesay council isn't exactly well known for embracing high density residential developments, and they could be influenced by an organized response from residents against this proposal, and ultimately, council members care more about staying on council than anything else. I don't think we'll quite see a, "Save Lorneville", type response to this proposal.

What I did find pretty funny as I quickly glanced at the emails from residents opposed in the .pdf Bingun posted above, is how quickly many of the residents went to bringing up expectations for financial compensation, and some even suggested that they could support the proposal if they were paid off.

Saint John is lucky we don't have such extreme NIMBYism here in the city, but at the same time, we could learn a thing or two from the residents of Rothesay, and how they don't put up with BS from their council.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Seems to be a much bigger developer from Dartmouth.

That's the planning firm, not the developer.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by OliverD

That's the planning firm, not the developer.

Thanks for clarifying. I guess it's not entirely clear who the developer is yet then?

Landmark Living Inc of Rothesay.

Not sure if they have a website or a social media page.

[bingun]

Rothesay resident says development with 1,277 housing units too much for 'one corner'

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/rothesay-resident-housing-development-1.7603561

[sailor734]

I do sympathize with the area residents in one aspect. Who would want to live next to a site that is going to be under ongoing construction for twenty years?

OTOH The site is zoned for this type of development (and has been for some time as I understand it) so I guess it's a question of "do your due diligence before buying a home" I would have more sympathy if the land was zoned rural residential or something and the developer was applying for a radical change in zoning.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I do sympathize with the area residents in one aspect. Who would want to live next to a site that is going to be under ongoing construction for twenty years?

OTOH The site is zoned for this type of development (and has been for some time as I understand it) so I guess it's a question of "do your due diligence before buying a home" I would have more sympathy if the land was zoned rural residential or something and the developer was applying for a radical change in zoning.

Reading the CBC article, this would be considered pretty tame as NIMBY concerns go IMO. Basically it is just a few neighbours saying that they think the land should be developed, they just get scared thinking about the numbers associated with it.

I found this part amusing: "Landry says it's too much growth, too fast, for such a small community."

A 20-year build-out is too fast?

[thefishingnut]

Well, at one point it was proposed to put a Walmart in there, buddy should count his lucky stars that abomination didn't end up in his back yard.