Downtown Canada

[Docere]

How about Vancouver?:

Stanley Park

Davie Village

Chinatown

Strathcona

Granville Island

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Docere

The definition of downtown Toronto today actually goes back to the "Central Area" defined in the 1970s. Downtown through the 1960s was College/Carlton to Front, University to Jarvis.

North of College to Bloor was known as "Uptown" back then, no?

[Denscity]

[QUOTE=Docere;8183550]How about Vancouver?:

Stanley Park

Davie Village

Chinatown

Strathcona

Granville Island[/QUOTE

Downtown Vancouver is surrounded by water on three sides and Main Street to the east.
So the first three yes the other two no.

[CoffeeBreak]

Here is your answer....

See, I live in East York... the Archie Bunker side of East York (i.e. not Leaside section). A while back, a friend of ours from Markham was coming down to visit. She said that she hated having to come "downtown", but would make a special trip. I told her that East York was not exactly downtown, and subsequently asked her to clarify what she considered to be downtown....

She replied promptly without hesitation and quite unequivocally that downtown was anywhere that she was forced to parallel park.

And I've learnt never to question her (or anyone) on that definition ever since!

[Docere]

A report on 16 downtown Toronto districts:

https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/up...07-04-2016.pdf

[megadude]

Originally Posted by CoffeeBreak

Here is your answer....

See, I live in East York... the Archie Bunker side of East York (i.e. not Leaside section). A while back, a friend of ours from Markham was coming down to visit. She said that she hated having to come "downtown", but would make a special trip. I told her that East York was not exactly downtown, and subsequently asked her to clarify what she considered to be downtown....

She replied promptly without hesitation and quite unequivocally that downtown was anywhere that she was forced to parallel park.

And I've learnt never to question her (or anyone) on that definition ever since!

So true. That is the definition from many, many people.

[isaidso]

The sales lady at Yorkdale Shopping Centre was nonplussed when I asked if they had a store in Toronto.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by isaidso

The sales lady at Yorkdale Shopping Centre was nonplussed when I asked if they had a store in Toronto.

I'll give you a pass.

Couple decades ago it wouldn't have been in Toronto. If someone in the GTA asked me now where Yorkdale is, I'd say it's in North York or 401 and Dufferin.

If they were not local I'd say north Toronto.

It's basically the same thing to me as Scarborough Town Centre or Woodbine Mall or Sherway Gardens.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by CoffeeBreak

Here is your answer....

See, I live in East York... the Archie Bunker side of East York (i.e. not Leaside section). A while back, a friend of ours from Markham was coming down to visit. She said that she hated having to come "downtown", but would make a special trip. I told her that East York was not exactly downtown, and subsequently asked her to clarify what she considered to be downtown....

She replied promptly without hesitation and quite unequivocally that downtown was anywhere that she was forced to parallel park.

And I've learnt never to question her (or anyone) on that definition ever since!

905er: King and Spadina, East York...it all seems THE SAME!!!!

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by isaidso

The sales lady at Yorkdale Shopping Centre was nonplussed when I asked if they had a store in Toronto.

As anyone understandably would be if you asked them if they had a store in... the same city that you were already in at that moment.

[Docere]

Even before 1998, that question would have been bizarre. "Toronto identity" didn't begin in 1998.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by Docere

Even before 1998, that question would have been bizarre. "Toronto identity" didn't begin in 1998.

Agreed. I was speaking technically.

I spent my first 8 years just south of Don Mills and Steeles and I always heard of us being in Toronto more than North York.

[J.OT13]

Have cities across Canada made progress in adding residential to their central business districts (CBD)?

Traditionally, the CBDs are booming from 7am to 6pm on weekdays, and the "City rolls up the sidewalks" after 6pm.

Now more than ever, the pandemic has taken quite a hit on CBDs and Downtowns, which requires cities to re-think these areas.

We can expect to see quite a few office to residential conversions. It sounds like Calgary has taken significant action on that point. Of course, not all office buildings are suitable. Often older buildings with smaller footprints are more adapted to this. We also see new (mostly rental) residential towers going up.

I find Vancouver, with its compact CBD and dense Downtown Peninsula has done the best job proving a mix of uses in its core (affordability issues aside). I can only think of one residential building in Toronto's CBD that has been built over the last decade, or maybe century, but the surroundings have densified significantly. Montreal, Edmonton and others have also made improvements.

Ottawa has been slow and steady, adding a half dozen buildings with some residential in its CBD over the last 20 years, but it's picked-up. We're seeing office conversions of mostly 70s brutalist mid-rises.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by CoffeeBreak

Here is your answer....

She replied promptly without hesitation and quite unequivocally that downtown was anywhere that she was forced to parallel park.

And I've learnt never to question her (or anyone) on that definition ever since!

That will restrict any suburbanites travelling to 'downtown' via car to those at least 30 years old. Parallel parking is pretty easy. I don't understand the apprehension about it.

Next you're going to be making them do a left turn

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I find Vancouver, with its compact CBD and dense Downtown Peninsula has done the best job proving a mix of uses in its core (affordability issues aside). I can only think of one residential building in Toronto's CBD that has been built over the last decade, or maybe century, but the surroundings have densified significantly.

There are actually very few residential buildings within Vancouver's designated CBD, and unless there's a rewrite of policy, very few opportunities to add any more. The Downtown ODP identifies a series of subzones, with differing densities 'as of right' and different schedules of permitted uses. The core CBD only allows residential uses to cover retention of heritage, and replacement of existing non-market housing (and there's almost none of that in the CBD). The base commercial zoning also has to be provided, so the bottom floors of the Residences at the Hotel Georgia are office space, (replacing the hotel's parkade) and the tower above paid for the seismic upgrading of the hotel.

Developers can propose a rezoning to a higher density, but so far no Council has contemplated allowing those proposals to alter the policy itself, only the density of space permitted, so there are no residential only projects in the CBD. Policy was tightened about 20 years ago after a detailed study confirmed the need to retain a commercial only core was needed, as higher residential values were undermining the viability of hotel or office uses.

Beyond the core CBD are 'shoulder' zones that require a base density of commercial, then permit residential above. It's generally around 3 FSR of commercial, and recent projects have proposed boutique hotels, as small scale office space is less easy to lease in the current market. Most of the residential density has been added in the zones that allow almost 100% residential, and because it's a constrained area those are all still walk or bike accessible to the CBD.

[thebasketballgeek]

With the doom and gloom about the state of DT Winnipeg locally one wouldn’t assume so, but in the last decade DT Winnipeg has added roughly 5,000 people going from 15k to 20k residents or a 25% population increase. A lot of the population growth was absorbed by the Exchange District, particularly in conversions of old warehouse buildings to residential lofts. Although we have constructed some new builds most notably 300 Main which is now the tallest building in the city and will probably add close to 1,000 people in the core by itself once fully leased. However, there is plenty of opportunity to add more residential in the CBD because of the embarrassing amount of surface lots directly east of Portage & Main.

We only have done a few office to residential which off the top of my head were 411 Main and Medical Arts Building. There are plans for another one next to P&M (138 Portage E and 146 new units) and next to the Convention Centre. One factor for this is that DT Winnipeg has the third lowest office vacancy rate in Canada at just above 10% so not as many opportunities compared to a city like Calgary.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Changing City

There are actually very few residential buildings within Vancouver's designated CBD, and unless there's a rewrite of policy, very few opportunities to add any more. The Downtown ODP identifies a series of subzones, with differing densities 'as of right' and different schedules of permitted uses. The core CBD only allows residential uses to cover retention of heritage, and replacement of existing non-market housing (and there's almost none of that in the CBD). The base commercial zoning also has to be provided, so the bottom floors of the Residences at the Hotel Georgia are office space, (replacing the hotel's parkade) and the tower above paid for the seismic upgrading of the hotel.

Developers can propose a rezoning to a higher density, but so far no Council has contemplated allowing those proposals to alter the policy itself, only the density of space permitted, so there are no residential only projects in the CBD. Policy was tightened about 20 years ago after a detailed study confirmed the need to retain a commercial only core was needed, as higher residential values were undermining the viability of hotel or office uses.

Beyond the core CBD are 'shoulder' zones that require a base density of commercial, then permit residential above. It's generally around 3 FSR of commercial, and recent projects have proposed boutique hotels, as small scale office space is less easy to lease in the current market. Most of the residential density has been added in the zones that allow almost 100% residential, and because it's a constrained area those are all still walk or bike accessible to the CBD.

Thanks for the info. I guess I mostly think of the compactness of the Vancouver CBD, along with the insane density around it, but yeah, I guess the actual CBD doesn't have much residential.

Are the streets of the CBD empty after 6pm? Does everything close after office hours?

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

With the doom and gloom about the state of DT Winnipeg locally one wouldn’t assume so, but in the last decade DT Winnipeg has added roughly 5,000 people going from 15k to 20k residents or a 25% population increase. A lot of the population growth was absorbed by the Exchange District, particularly in conversions of old warehouse buildings to residential lofts. Although we have constructed some new builds most notably 300 Main which is now the tallest building in the city and will probably add close to 1,000 people in the core by itself once fully leased. However, there is plenty of opportunity to add more residential in the CBD because of the embarrassing amount of surface lots directly east of Portage & Main.

We only have done a few office to residential which off the top of my head were 411 Main and Medical Arts Building. There are plans for another one next to P&M (138 Portage E and 146 new units) and next to the Convention Centre. One factor for this is that DT Winnipeg has the third lowest office vacancy rate in Canada at just above 10% so not as many opportunities compared to a city like Calgary.

Good on Winnipeg for maintaining a relatively low office vacancy rate. We'll see if that shifts at some points while pre-pandemic leases expire.

The Exchange is absolutely fantastic. The closest counterpart to old Montreal IMO. Great to hear warehouse buildings continue to be converted.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Thanks for the info. I guess I mostly think of the compactness of the Vancouver CBD, along with the insane density around it, but yeah, I guess the actual CBD doesn't have much residential.

Are the streets of the CBD empty after 6pm? Does everything close after office hours?

It's certainly not a dead zone like many cities. Most of the city's hotel rooms are in the CBD, or on its edge, most of the Downtown transit runs through the CBD, and there's a fair amount of retail as almost all the buildings have some sort of retail or restaurant on the main floor, and they don't all close down at 6pm. During covid things were different as tourism disappeared, conventions stopped, transit use slumped and work-from-home reduced the number of people in the area. There are also four Downtown higher education campuses, and a lot of language schools, and they almost all closed for a while, so there were far fewer people associated with them too - and they're all now back to normal.

Quite a bit of smaller scale retail closed down, but almost everything has reopened or been replaced with new retailers. (The exception is the recently closed Nordstrom store, but that had nothing to do with viability in Vancouver, it was apparently very profitable, but not worth retaining because most of the rest of Canada stores were performing poorly).

And there were still over 60,000 people living Downtown, and 50,000 more in the West End in the rest of the peninsula. There are twelve supermarkets Downtown, (and a City Market about to open) and another five in the West End, a Costco, four Dollaramas and sixteen Drug Stores on the peninsula that also sell food, so there are always people around going shopping.

[Nouvellecosse]

It comes down to whether you want to call the whole of downtown (or at least the whole highrise cluster of downtown) the CBD like in Australia, or limit the term to just the financial district. Under the the more common "all of downtown" model, neither is lacking in residential.

[J.OT13]

This 1966 brick office building, 12 floors, in Downtown Ottawa is set to be converted. They are planning 200 rental units, but not a whole lot more info so far.





https://obj.ca/katasa-group-buys-sla...eet-highrises/

Here are a few other recent projects over the last few years (completed, u/c or proposed),all in the CBD/Centretown/Escarpment, all 60s or 70s vintage.

169 Lisgar, around 42 units.


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...-to-apartments

331 Cooper, 45 units.

Originally Posted by SL123

Saw this post on Instagram

360 Laurier, 139 units.

Originally Posted by Glenlivet Ave

Has anything been posted about this office building conversion at 360 Laurier:



https://obj.ca/clv-group-to-convert-...-issue-emerges

110 O'Connor, number of units unknown at this point.


https://obj.ca/a-change-of-space-mor...housing-grows/

170 Metcalfe, 61 units.


https://www.districtrealty.com/resid...tcalfe-street/

The Slayte, about 153 units.

Originally Posted by rocketphish

...and from today:



Photos by me
Aug 22, 2023