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  #221  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 3:17 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
I dunno - not everyone goes to the hospital with a fractured skull or the plague. Often, if you're not taking an ambulance, it's much more mundane: a follow-up visit, getting a prescription, visiting someone... these are all trips which can be done by transit and in many cases will arguably be more convenient than driving. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be parking - there definitively should be for a lot of the reasons you enumerated - but we should be looking to examples of small-footprint urban hospitals like in Montreal instead of trying to fit a sprawling, suburban hospital campus in Ottawa's central area.
I don't disagree. I've taken the bus to the hospital for tests (it's cheaper thank parking). I'm just saying the hospital-parking lobby is very strong and has lots of media and government support, so I don't blame the hospital for wanting to build lots of parking, although I agree it should be in garage-format rather than on the surface.
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  #222  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 4:11 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
I dunno - not everyone goes to the hospital with a fractured skull or the plague. Often, if you're not taking an ambulance, it's much more mundane: a follow-up visit, getting a prescription, visiting someone... these are all trips which can be done by transit and in many cases will arguably be more convenient than driving. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be parking - there definitively should be for a lot of the reasons you enumerated - but we should be looking to examples of small-footprint urban hospitals like in Montreal instead of trying to fit a sprawling, suburban hospital campus in Ottawa's central area.
Ottawa loves its sprawl, though, and there's no chance the city will hold the project to the high urban design standards that current planning theory calls for.

We will get a carbuncle of a hospital.
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  #223  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 4:12 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
Be careful what you wish for. The new "super hospitals" in Mtl (both CHUM and MUHC) will have less beds than what they're replacing/consolidating. There's heavy criticism over there about those projects, especially in the medical community.

But I agree that we can't have seas of parking lots surrounding a new Civic. The parking should either go vertical, or underground, or both.
The capacity of the hospital is a separate issue from its urban design standards.
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  #224  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 5:16 PM
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Yes and no. I was referring specifically to the notion of "small footprint", which is fine in theory but mustn't come at the expense of capacity if we go that route.
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  #225  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 7:16 PM
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They also don't need that much plain grass either, unless the hospital is planning specific sports activities on the grass for patients' health.
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  #226  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2016, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Buggys View Post
They also don't need that much plain grass either, unless the hospital is planning specific sports activities on the grass for patients' health.
I didn't like that sprawl concept drawing but it doesn't include huge amounts of "plain grass" unless you include the green roofs and the therapeutic outdoor space(s), whatever they are. At least it made clear why they are seeking such a ridiculous amount of land.
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  #227  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2016, 4:32 PM
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Ah yes. The green roof parking had just looked like big patches of grass at ground level. Oops.

Although parking shouldn't be planned on grass anyway, as grass needs moisture and the bottoms of cars rust when sitting over grass.
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  #228  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2016, 1:44 PM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
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Originally Posted by Buggys View Post
Ah yes. The green roof parking had just looked like big patches of grass at ground level. Oops.

Although parking shouldn't be planned on grass anyway, as grass needs moisture and the bottoms of cars rust when sitting over grass.
No parking on grass. The grass is planned to be on the roofs of the parking garages.
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  #229  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2016, 3:01 PM
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If they do go ahead with using that site, they should innovate on using the building tops for urban farming to supplement the hospital's food supply. Then it could still be part of the Experimental Farm developing technologies for the future
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  #230  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2016, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Capital Shaun View Post
No parking on grass. The grass is planned to be on the roofs of the parking garages.
Ack, I was so confused by that little image:
http://i.cbc.ca/1.3635507.1466015357!/fi...16x9_620/civic-campus-report-parking.JPG

The parking garages would be more space efficient as one big tall parking garage, perhaps in the middle of the future site, as each garage needs one ramp to the top & back.

The buildings could also be joined into one, perhaps as a U shape around the parking. Then the building can be pedestrian friendly from the street, and different edges of the parking garage would be closest to different wings of the building. Perhaps the tops of the U can be joined by corridors/hallways above the height of an overly high vehicle, to create a shortcut.

If I have more time, I can refine my design to be even more efficient & elegant.

I think my design is better than theirs, and it was free! :-P
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  #231  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2016, 11:48 AM
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NCC to reveal plan next Tuesday for review of Civic campus sites

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 21, 2016 | Last Updated: June 21, 2016 5:04 PM EDT


Ottawa residents will learn next week how the National Capital Commission plans to conduct its review of potential sites for The Ottawa Hospital‘s proposed new Civic campus.

Stephen Willis, the NCC’s outgoing planning director, will make a 30-minute presentation on the subject at the end of next Tuesday’s public board of directors meeting.

Last month, Heritage Minister Mélanie Joly asked the NCC to review the possible sites for the new $2-billion hospital and make a recommendation by the end of November.

In response, NCC chief executive Mark Kristmanson pledged to conduct a “thorough review” of prospective sites, saying NCC planners would develop a plan of action that included public and stakeholder consultations. It’s that plan that will be presented at next Tuesday’s meeting.

The hospital announced in March that it was re-evaluating its plan to build the new Civic campus on a 60-acre site on the Experimental Farm, across from its current location on Carling Avenue.

That plan, announced in November 2014, sparked immediate controversy, in part because there were no public consultations and because it would position the new super hospital on one of the Experimental Farm’s oldest research fields.

Tuesday’s agenda also includes a 45-minute presentation by Willis on the ongoing project to rehabilitate the century-old Government Conference Centre, which will become the temporary home of the Canadian Senate during the decade-long renovations and repairs to Parliament’s Centre Block, scheduled to begin in 2018.

Other agenda items include:

• A brief update from Kristmanson on the status of the plan to redevelop LeBreton Flats.
• Guidelines for the management of the National Arts Centre’s new “lantern,” a tall glass tower rising above the NAC’s planned new entrance on Confederation Square. In January, some NCC board members expressed concerns that sponsorship messages projected onto the lantern could clash with the solemnity of the nearby National War Memorial.
• The unveiling of proposed riverfront park improvements along the Ottawa River’s Quebec shore.

On June 27, the night before the Tuesday public meeting, the NCC will hold its 16th annual public meeting from 7 to 9 p.m. in its second-floor Capital Urbanism Lab.

NCC officials will review the year just past, talk about current priorities and take questions and comments from members of the public. The NCC asks people who want to attend to register by noon Thursday.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...tuesday-for-review-of-civic-campus-sites
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  #232  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2016, 11:56 PM
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NCC launches review of a dozen potential hospital sites

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 28, 2016 | Last Updated: June 28, 2016 6:42 PM EDT


The National Capital Commission on Tuesday launched a review of at least 12 sites originally eyed by The Ottawa Hospital for a new Civic campus after opponents raised a stink about a plan to build on the Experimental Farm.

Mark Kristmanson, the NCC’s chief executive officer, said studying the original 12 sites identified in 2008, in addition to other federal lands, is part of the agency’s “due diligence.”

“Once we have a list of sites we’ll make that public as part of the public consultations and stakeholder consultations so people know what the menu of choices are,” Kristmanson said.

Kristmanson said potentially adding more federal properties to the list is part of checking the rationale for where The Ottawa Hospital should build a new Civic campus.

“We’re going into it with an open mind and as part of that we’ll look at all the possibilities,” he said.

Two sites will already be crossed off the list because of existing plans: The old Nortel campus, which is becoming the headquarters for the Department of National Defence, and Bayview Yards, which is becoming an innovation centre for startup companies.

The hospital’s intention to build a new facility on a 60-acre chunk of the Experimental Farm across from the current Civic campus on Carling Avenue has been mired in controversy ever since the previous Conservative government offered up the land in 2014.

Opponents didn’t like that there were no public consultations for a $2-billion infrastructure project on what they argue is an important research field. The 1,055-acre central farm, which is a national historic site, has been the government’s agricultural research station since 1886.

Others have argued the research at the farm has decreased and a hospital on part of the land would be appropriate.

The Ottawa Hospital submitted a report to the federal government in April 2016 reviewing four possible federally owned sites for a new Civic campus. One is at Tunney’s Pasture and the others are at the Experimental Farm.

In May, Heritage Minister Mélanie Joly, who oversees the NCC, directed the agency to review the possible federal sites for a new hospital.

The NCC has assembled a joint subcommittee of members of the board and the agency’s advisory committee on planning, design and reality to oversee the review. Kristmanson is also on the subcommittee.

An online public consultation is scheduled for September. In the meantime, the NCC will be meeting with several government agencies and community groups, such as Heritage Ottawa and Friends of the Farm.

Mayor Jim Watson said he wants the NCC to dig up the “straight goods” about the kinds of research happening at the Experimental Farm and their importance.

“People are getting polarized in this debate,” Watson said.

Another board member, Norman Hotson, challenged the NCC to imagine the perfect site for a central hospital and avoid a “suburban solution.”

The NCC will seek the board’s approval for a site in November.

Carleton MP Pierre Poilievre criticized the NCC for delaying the process to build a new Civic campus.

“The process announced today continues to delay a desperately needed hospital,” he said in a statement. “This review will include reconsidering 11 locations that the Ottawa Hospital already said are insufficient; it will consider other possible sites but they will not say which ones; and it will use broader but still undefined criteria.”

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ncc-launches-review-of-a-dozen-potential-hospital-sites
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  #233  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2016, 12:31 AM
Marshsparrow Marshsparrow is offline
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2030 and they will still be looking for that perfect spot.
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  #234  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2016, 11:26 AM
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On the new Civic: we're taking a trip but can we leave the Farm?

Kelly Egan, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 30, 2016 | Last Updated: July 1, 2016 10:49 PM EDT


Last week we raised the spectre of Lincoln Fields Shopping Centre being demolished, in stages, to make way for a more residential- and transit-friendly development.

We should make the point — a flustered merchant did — this could take five to 10 years, maybe even longer, so it’s business as usual.

But another reader responds with a good question. If RioCan is considering a major takedown of Lincoln Fields and Westgate malls, should these sites be considered for the new Civic campus of the Ottawa Hospital?

Interesting. On the surface, they are too small (Lincoln about 18 acres, Westgate at 12) for the hospital’s stated aspirations, at 50 to 60 acres.

But 60 acres, surely, is a moon-wish. Could smaller work? Westgate has the advantage of being surrounded by on and off-ramps to the Queensway and is located on a couple of arterials, Carling Avenue and Merivale Road. And think: It is across the street from the Royal Ottawa Mental Health Centre, with a big parking lot in between.

Is there a way to physically link the two, even build right over the short section of Merivale, to create a new health hub? Just asking.

To get really dreamy, there is large Hampton Park (mall and actual park) on the north side of the Queensway. Is there a clever way to use those spaces — even connect them to the Westgate property, for said health complex? Just asking.

Lincoln Fields, meanwhile, is beside a Transitway station that will form an important stop on future LRT. There is, too, lots of green space in the adjacent Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway corridor. Potential there?

This brings us to the point. The National Capital Commission is reviewing the dozen sites the Ottawa Hospital looked at in 2008. The thinking eight years ago was a spot at West Hunt Club and Woodroffe Avenue would be ideal. Then came a major rethink and, with a healthy dose of politics, we ended up with a preferred site at the Central Experimental Farm. Then it all went screwy.

Back to the original dozen. All but one are in public land-banks, from Tunney’s Pasture to Confederation Heights. Why not look at privately-held land, even consider expropriation, to find the absolute best location?

(A senior RioCan executive was asked if they would entertain offers for Westgate. “We would listen,” he answered.)

Shawn Hamilton is managing director of the Ottawa office of CBRE Ltd., a large commercial real estate firm accustomed to assembling big chunks of land. He is not involved in the Civic site selection, nor is he a critic of the process.

“Could private land hold it? Absolutely. The best site should be chosen regardless if it’s public or private. Everything should be put in the mix, not to appease the public, but more so to pick the absolute, most functional, longterm site.”

If approached to find, say, 30 developable acres within the Greenbelt, Hamilton said he could come up with a list, especially if expropriation were at play.

My point, with all this baking-in-the-sky, is a basic one. If the NCC sticks to the initial 10 or 12 sites, and conducts the same review — give or take — you take the trip but never leave the (experimental) farm.

Start with a bigger pool. What about, for instance, Vincent Massey Park? What if Merivale High School closes in a couple of years, as is speculated? There are underused lands, surely, along Scott Street, or in the Woodward/Laperriere corridor.

And why, after decades of hand-wringing, there was no serious discussion of LeBreton Flats is a mystery. That land was essentially taken at gunpoint from the people of Ottawa. Why not return it to them for the most essential of public uses?

The hospital, meanwhile, said it looked at both private and public lands in the initial sweep.

“The challenge is that there aren’t many (if any) privately-held lands in the city core that meet the hospital’s needs. Even the City of Ottawa did not have, at the time, any suitable sites, and the single biggest land owner is the federal government,” hospital president Jack Kitts replied in an email.

“The hospital needs to be in a central location, on a site that’s large enough to meet the needs of 21st century healthcare, and allows for growth over the next century. By deduction you end up with a small list of federally-held lands.”

There is, too, the “prohibitive” cost of buying private tracts, he added.

Fair enough. But we’re back to the drawing board right now. Eyes off the ground for a moment. It’s a big sky out there.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...-relocation-why-not-look-at-private-land
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  #235  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2016, 2:51 AM
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Public consultations for possible Ottawa Hospital sites to begin Sept. 22

Elizabeth Payne, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: August 19, 2016 | Last Updated: August 19, 2016 5:29 PM EDT


The National Capital Commission will unveil possible sites for a new Civic hospital at its public board meeting on Sept. 12. Ten days later, members of the public can have their say about where the hospital should go.

The NCC says public consultations on The Ottawa Hospital Civic campus site review will begin at the Canadian War Museum on Sept. 22 with an open house and question and answer session. The NCC will also launch an online consultation survey on the hospital site.

The federal government asked the NCC to review possible federal sites for a new Civic hospital. The NCC has assembled a committee to oversee the review and has been meeting with groups including Heritage Ottawa and Friends of the Farm.

Consultations are to be complete by November.

The NCC has appointed a joint subcommittee of its board of directors and advisory committee on planning, design and realty to “revalidate” The Ottawa Hospital’s requirements, develop site selection criteria, confirm a list of potential sites, compare each site and rank them.

Plans to replace the aging hospital with a new one on 60 acres of the Central Experimental Farm — announced by the Conservative government in 2014 — became the focus of controversy and concerns that proper research and consultation was not done.

The Ottawa Hospital began looking at three other sites earlier this year in response to growing concerns. Now, the NCC is expected to come up with a longer list of potential sites within the city.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...ions-for-possible-sites-to-begin-sept-22
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  #236  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2016, 7:27 PM
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Knowing that the NCC is involved in this and given their stellar track record - without doubt one of top five sites for the new Ottawa hospital will be in Gatineau!
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  #237  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2016, 3:46 PM
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NCC denies asking for more time to review potential sites for new hospital

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: September 8, 2016 | Last Updated: September 8, 2016 7:23 PM EDT


The National Capital Commission wanted more time to determine the best site for The Ottawa Hospital‘s proposed new $2-billion Civic campus but was rebuffed by the federal government, says a participant in stakeholder consultations the NCC held last week.

“They told us in this meeting that they were not thrilled with the process,” said Serge Buy, CEO of the Agricultural Institute of Canada.

However, the NCC’s Nicholas Galletti said Thursday the discussion at the stakeholder meeting was “misinterpreted,” and Pierre-Olivier Herbert, a spokesman for Heritage Minister Mélanie Joly, said the NCC has made no request for a time extension.

The future site of the hospital has been mired in controversy since the former Conservative government announced plans in 2014 to turn over 60 acres of Central Experimental Farm land to the hospital.

In response to criticism that the decision was made without public consultation, Joly asked the NCC in May to review possible sites for the new hospital and make a recommendation by the end of November.

Buy said he raised concerns about the tight timetable during last week’s stakeholders’ meeting and was told by NCC officials that they had “asked for more time and they were not afforded more time.”

However Herbert said the ministry is confident the NCC “will be able to follow their proposed timetable.”

Galletti said the NCC proposed a process and timeline that was “comprehensive, evidence-based, informed by extensive public consultations, and that ensured the development of this world-class health care facility proceeded expeditiously while benefiting from a strong planning foundation.”

Buy said it was clear at the meeting that the NCC didn’t have all the facts it needed to make an evidence-based decision, including a full understanding of the value of the research being done on the Experimental Farm.

“How can you consult the public and stakeholders without having all the information out?” Buy asked. “What we’re saying is, ‘Let’s reset the clock and do it right.’ Let’s not have another process where people feel bitter because they don’t think they had the information to make the right decision.”

NCC chief executive Mark Kristmanson will provide an update on the site review process at Monday’s public meeting of the agency’s board of directors. He will announce the full list of potential sites under consideration, the draft criteria the NCC will use to evaluate them and plans for public consultations.

The NCC will hold an open house at the Canadian War Museum on Sept. 22 and launch an online survey that will remain active until Oct. 6.

A subcommittee of members from the NCC board and the agency’s advisory committee on planning, design and realty will complete the site evaluations by the end of October and rank them in order of preference. The NCC board will then vote on the recommended site on Nov. 23.

With such a compressed timetable, Buy said, “you know before the consultation starts that the decision is already written.” Adding a “couple more months” to the process would allow a more thorough evaluation, he said.

Though Buy’s institute advocates for agricultural research, at this point, he said, it is not irrevocably opposed to using Experimental Farm land for the new hospital if that’s the best choice. “We’re saying there needs to be a process. The process that we see, as outlined, is not sufficient.”

Leslie Maitland, a leader of the Coalition to Protect the Central Experimental Farm, also participated in stakeholder consultations with the NCC last week.

“Their thinking may be evolving,” she said in an interview, adding that NCC officials told her they were going to ask the hospital how much land it really needs for the new Civic campus. “There may be a compromise somewhere.”

Maitland said the NCC had been handling “a very complicated file with a lot of competing and very compelling arguments on all sides. I think they’re doing their absolute level best to launch a credible process.”

Maitland said she was satisfied with the process to date. “I’m not sure what else they could do. They went for small stakeholder groups so people could be heard. I think that’s very smart and very fair.”

Her principal concern, she said, was whether the NCC will represent the interests of all Canadians in its decision, rather than just the interests of The Ottawa Hospital.

One of the NCC’s evaluation criteria, Maitland said, should be to determine which potential sites are of national significance. “Obviously, they’re not going to put a hospital on the grounds of Rideau Hall. Equally, why would they put a hospital on top of Canada’s most significant agricultural research lands?”

Tunney’s Pasture, a 121-acre campus of federal office buildings, should be at or near the top of the list of recommended sites, Maitland said.

“It’s got plenty of acreage, it’s on the LRT, Scott Street is now four lanes, it’s on the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway and it’s right in the centre, where the Civic claims they want to be. What’s not to like?”

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...-review-potential-sites-for-new-hospital
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  #238  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 5:07 PM
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NCC announces 12 potential sites for Ottawa Hospital's new Civic campus

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: September 12, 2016 | Last Updated: September 12, 2016 10:32 AM EDT


The National Capital Commission will review 12 potential sites for the new $2-billion Civic campus of The Ottawa Hospital, including four on contested Central Experimental Farm land, the agency announced Monday.

The potential sites include three on the Experimental Farm along Carling Avenue and another on farm land near Baseline and Merivale roads, as well as the existing site of the Civic campus.

The other sites that will be assessed include Tunney’s Pasture, Lincoln Fields, the federal government’s Booth Street complex, two sites on West Hunt Club Road near Highway 416, a site on Woodroffe Avenue near Hunt Club Road and the Merivale Road-Woodroffe Avenue corridor.

The NCC also released its draft section criteria, which fall into three broad categories: functional and operational, capital interests, and regional and local interests.

The functional and operational criteria will consider whether the size of the site supports the hospital’s needs, whether it is within the urban area close to amenities, and access to arterial roads and major highways, among other things.

Capital interests include compatibility with existing federal plans, impact on heritage sites and historic buildings and cost implications for the federal government related to land value, demolition and relocation of facilities.

Among the regional and local interests that will be considered are the site’s compatibility with the City of Ottawa’s plans and integration with transportation and public transit networks.

The NCC will brief elected officials and first nations leaders at the Canadian War Museum on Sept. 22, followed by an open house for the public at 3 p.m. and a question-and-answer session from 7 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. In addition, a two-week online consultation will begin on Sept. 22.

The results of the public and stakeholder feedback “will inform the recommendations” of the NCC’s six-member evaluation committee, chief executive Mark Kristmanson said.

The evaluation committee will finalize the selection criteria in early October and recommend the preferred site to the NCC’s board in November, Kristmanson said.

Leslie Maitland, a spokeswoman for a group that opposes the use of Experimental Farm land for the new hospital, said she was “very pleased” that the NCC was considering 12 potential sites rather than just the four put forward this spring by The Ottawa Hospital.

“It really is a fresh look at things,” she said.

She was also pleased that the NCC had “considerably beefed up” capital interests as one of the key selection criteria. Her group had feared that the interests of the hospital would receive the most weight.

While Maitland was disappointed that four sites on the Experimental Farm remain on this list, “I’m hoping the criteria will make it obvious that the Central Experimental Farm shouldn’t be considered at all.

“I’m optimistic that we’re still working towards a win-win scenario,” she said. “The next few weeks will be very important.”

Kristmanson said the NCC is on track to provide a site recommendation to the agency’s board by its next public meeting in November and a final recommendation to Heritage Minister Mélanie Joly by the end-of-November deadline.

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The dozen proposed sites released Monday:


  1. Tunney’s Pasture – Scott Street
  2. Lincoln Fields – Pinecrest Creek
  3. West Hunt Club Road (north) – Highway 416
  4. West Hunt Club Road (south) – Highway 416
  5. Woodroffe Avenue – West Hunt Club Road
  6. Merivale Road /Woodroffe Avenue corridor
  7. Central Experimental Farm – Baseline Road – Merivale Road
  8. Existing Ottawa Hospital – Civic Campus
  9. Central Experimental Farm – Carling Avenue (west)
  10. Central Experimental Farm – Carling Avenue (central)
  11. Central Experimental Farm – Carling Avenue (east)
  12. Booth Street complex

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...-from-experiment-farm-to-tunneys-pasture

Last edited by rocketphish; Sep 12, 2016 at 5:17 PM.
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  #239  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 5:23 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Is there another Canadian city with its hospital closest to downtown so far from downtown?
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  #240  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 5:28 PM
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Some of these "options" are so laughable I don't know why they're even included; 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 in particular.
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