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  #201  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2016, 4:55 PM
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rocketphish rocketphish is offline
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I'd like Skippy to stop being an idiot. Can I call an inquiry into that?

Quote:
Poilievre wants inquiry on Liberal decision to review Ottawa Hospital site

Evelyn Harford, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 13, 2016 | Last Updated: June 13, 2016 11:34 AM EDT




Pierre Poilievre, Conservative MP for Carleton, will ask the House of Commons Health Committee to address the construction of the Ottawa Hospital’s new Civic Campus on Monday.

Poilievre is outraged that the Liberal’s have “slammed the brakes” on the construction of the new Civic Campus on Central Experimental Farm land, across from its existing campus; a site accepted by the previous Conservative government in 2014.

The decision was revisited after concerns from agriculture and climate change scientists and heritage advocates that the transfer of 24 hectares of Experimental Farm land to the Ottawa Hospital could compromise two decades of research on food security and climate change.

Catherine McKenna, Ottawa Centre MP and Minister of the Environment and Climate Change, overturned the decision in November 2015. Since then, the Liberals have considered four new options provided by the hospital, but weren’t happy with the results.

“There is no perfect space,” said Poilievre. “At the end of the day where ever you put it, someone is going to be unhappy.”

He wants to know what other locations, if any, the Liberals are considering so that public input can be considered before a decision is made.

The motion will ask that the Health Committee call the Minister of Environment, Minister of Agriculture, Minister of Heritage, and the CEO of the National Capital Commission to address the delay that Poilievre says is unnecessary.

The Liberals have asked the NCC to help them come to a decision on where the new location should be; a decision which would come six months from now, according to Poilievre — nearly a decade after the initial search for a new location began.

Poilievre says he hopes that the Liberals will accept the previous government’s approved location across the street from the Ottawa Hospital’s current campus to get construction moving.

The committee meeting is expected to be held in about two weeks.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...-decision-to-review-ottawa-hospital-site
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  #202  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2016, 11:22 PM
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"He wants to know what other locations, if any, the Liberals are considering so that public input can be considered before a decision is made."

Ugh. What a hypocrite!
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  #203  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 11:37 AM
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Parking given prominence in Ottawa Hospital's Civic expansion plan
Report obtained by CBC News shows 'hypothetical' layout with 6 large parking structures on Experimental Farm

By Joanne Chianello, CBC News Posted: Jun 16, 2016 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: Jun 16, 2016 5:00 AM ET




The Ottawa Hospital insists it needs 24 hectares for a new Civic campus, but it appears the hospital wants a third of that space for parking.

According to an April 2016 report obtained by CBC News, the "hypothetical" layout for a new Civic campus for the Central Experimental Farm or Tunney's Pasture appears to include parking structures that take up at least as much land as actual medical buildings, and possibly more.

The report, prepared for the hospital by engineering consultants HDR, lays out the hospital's requirements for a new 24-hectare Civic, and reviews the four shortlisted locations.

All but one of those sites are on the Central Experimental Farm. The fourth site is Tunney's Pasture.

The report calls for eight hectares for buildings, four hectares for "health and wellness" features, another "[eight hectares] of land for overall circulation, access, roadway and parking requirements" and another four to six hectares for future expansion.

However even at a quick glance, the "hypothetical test fit" drawings in the report appear to show parking structures that take up far more land than the medical buildings.

The "test fit" is meant to give an idea of how 24 hectares would be divvied up for a hospital campus, and a version is provided for all four locations. It is not an architectural design. But they do provide a stark visual of how much parking the hospital will require.

The proposal shows six substantial "green roof parking" structures, with a few smaller surface parking areas.

Renowned local architect Barry Padolsky has analyzed the layout. He estimates 19 per cent of the land will be used for medical and support buildings, while 33 per cent will go to parking. Roads will account for another nine per cent, while the remainder would become green space or be left uncommitted.

"That's a scary prospect," said Leslie Maitland, chair of the Coalition to Protect the Central Experimental Farm.

She said the "hypothetical design" has two fundamental issues.

"One, it is a sprawling suburban design, more appropriate to the suburban areas of a large city. Secondly, 33 per cent is dedicated to parking, which means
[eight hectares] of Canada's most important agricultural land is literally going to be paved over," she said.

"Cue Joni Mitchell."

The behind-closed-doors decision to hand over 24 hectares of the Experimental Farm to the hospital has been controversial ever since former MP John Baird announced it in 2014.

The land sits on a key research field at the Experimental Farm — a National Historic Site and the location of the second-oldest research agricultural land in the world, which contributed to work that won a Nobel Peace Prize in 2007.

Earlier this year, a recently elected Liberal government told the hospital to re-evaluate the options for relocating the Civic and to consider the impact on research at the farm. The April report was a response to that request.

Then last month Heritage Minister Mélanie Joly asked the National Capital Commission to review all local federal lands for a possible location for a new Civic. Officials from the hospital are deferring questions on the report due to the NCC review.

Although the hospital report does not explicitly rank the four locations, the Experimental Farm location directly across from the existing Civic comes out ahead in the evaluation. There are 10 "strengths" identified for the site, and six "challenges."

By comparison, the Experimental Farm-Central site (across the street and just south of the existing Civic) has 13 challenges, while the Experimental Farm-Sir John Carling site has a whopping 20 challenges. Many of the issues with these two sites concern the expense of moving existing buildings, which the report says could cost in the "hundreds of millions of dollars."

Only nine strengths are attributed to the Tunney's option, with 11 challenges. One of them is that Tunney's has "no line of sight" to the existing Civic. It's not clear why that would be important, as the Carling Avenue land would revert to the city once the hospital is decommissioned.

And while the report acknowledges the Experimental Farm has national heritage designation, there is little new by way of the hospital's thinking on the four sites.

The criteria set by the site selection committee include proximity to the Queensway and public transit, although of the four shortlisted locations, only Tunney's Pasture is easily accessible to rapid transit. (The city doesn't have plans for light rail on Carling until after 2030.) The site also has to be in the core of the city, should take into account costs to tear down pre-existing buildings and have minimal impact on the community.

But it's the insistence that a new Civic needs 24 hectares that has critics up in arms.

Hospital officials have laid out their rationale for why a modern hospital needs to be on such an expanse of land, including a need for individual rooms — the plan is for 700 to 800 beds, up from the current 600 (which includes spaces at the Heart Institute) — separating out-patient services from the main hospital and the inclusion of more green space.

But, as critics point out, other cities have been able to build state-of-the-art hospitals on smaller sites.

The McGill University Health Centre has merged three hospitals and a research centre onto a 17-hectare campus, which encompasses 500 single-patient rooms. But it's planning to expand the number of beds on the same site. It also provides 1,500 public parking spaces underground, and another 1,200 for staff in an eight-storey parking tower.

The recently opened Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore is erected on a mere two hectares and includes two 12-storey patient towers, 560 private patient rooms, 33 operating theatres, and large adult and pediatric emergency departments.

Maitland said her group has had good discussions with the hospital, but she still can't understand the rationale for 24 hectares when other hospitals can do with less.

"Why is it other hospitals seem to be able to do this on less than [24 hectares], but [the Civic] cannot?"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-hospital-civic-experimental-farm-parking-1.3634259
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  #204  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 1:16 PM
Norman Bates Norman Bates is offline
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Shameful. Truly shameful.

Create more efficient parking and put the whole thing in Booth Street.
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  #205  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 2:34 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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Wow what a garbage plan. You would think they'd give it some more thought and come up with something better after all this debacle.
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  #206  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 3:29 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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I still don't understand why that large tract of empty land at Carling and Preston was not considered. This is just down the road below the hill and rapid transit bisects the site. This land was all former federal buildings.
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  #207  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 3:43 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I still don't understand why that large tract of empty land at Carling and Preston was not considered. This is just down the road below the hill and rapid transit bisects the site. This land was all former federal buildings.
My personal preference is the land of surface parking at Tunney's pasture. And it's close to LRT.

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  #208  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 3:47 PM
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Is there enough parking at Tunney's Pasture though?
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  #209  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jeremy_haak View Post
Is there enough parking at Tunney's Pasture though?
I have a feeling hospital doesn't want to be close to good transit options because they need that parking revenue.
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  #210  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 4:36 PM
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Pro for Tunneys would be to re-imagine the site as a health sciences cluster, with HC's headquarters and labs already there, build a new office building and relocate CIHR and encourage other granting agencies to co-locate, add a major teaching and research hospital, build an incubator-type space and open up other properties for commercial development aimed at established pharma and health care companies, and it could become something special.

That said, I'd also be supportive of the John Carling and "Queen Juliana Park" sites; and the NRCan lands... Also, why on earth are we only looking at federal lands, and why is it the federal government's responsibility to provide land for the hospital? To that end, I'd look at some of the vast empty land lands around Baseline Station, too.
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  #211  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 5:22 PM
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I support Tunney's. Tunney's is way too sprawled out and far too much of its land area is taken up parking given its central location and location well served by transit. Adding a hospital in there helps densify it a bit.
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  #212  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 5:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McC View Post
Pro for Tunneys would be to re-imagine the site as a health sciences cluster, with HC's headquarters and labs already there, build a new office building and relocate CIHR and encourage other granting agencies to co-locate, add a major teaching and research hospital, build an incubator-type space and open up other properties for commercial development aimed at established pharma and health care companies, and it could become something special.

That said, I'd also be supportive of the John Carling and "Queen Juliana Park" sites; and the NRCan lands... Also, why on earth are we only looking at federal lands, and why is it the federal government's responsibility to provide land for the hospital? To that end, I'd look at some of the vast empty land lands around Baseline Station, too.
Agree with all of that, except for the Baseline part. The region's major trauma centre needs to be more central.
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  #213  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 6:13 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman Bates View Post
Shameful. Truly shameful.

Create more efficient parking and put the whole thing in Booth Street.
Wherever it gets built, it should be to the highest urban standards for a city hospital... not another piece of suburban garbage.
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  #214  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 6:24 PM
IntoTheCore IntoTheCore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McC View Post
Pro for Tunneys would be to re-imagine the site as a health sciences cluster, with HC's headquarters and labs already there, build a new office building and relocate CIHR and encourage other granting agencies to co-locate, add a major teaching and research hospital, build an incubator-type space and open up other properties for commercial development aimed at established pharma and health care companies, and it could become something special.
I like your thinking, but the Civic is already a full-fledged teaching hospital ("one of the largest ... in Canada", according to https://www.ottawahospital.on.ca/wps/portal/Base/TheHospital/AboutOurHospital/OurPartners).
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  #215  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 7:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntoTheCore View Post
the Civic is already a full-fledged teaching hospital ("one of the largest ... in Canada", according to https://www.ottawahospital.on.ca/wps/portal/Base/TheHospital/AboutOurHospital/OurPartners).
yes, I know, exactly. Therefore, moving it to Tunney's would "add a major teaching and research hospital" to the site.
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  #216  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2016, 7:11 PM
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Edit, for clarity and refining the idea about the incubator space, because those incubator types loves them being some incubated in old timey buildings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McC View Post
Pro for Tunneys would be to re-imagine the site as a health sciences cluster, with HC's headquarters and labs already there, build a new office building and relocate CIHR and encourage other granting agencies to co-locate, add a major teaching and research hospital(i.e., the Civic), build relocate StatsCan and convert the Main Stats building into an incubator-type space and open up other properties for commercial development aimed at established pharma and health care companies, and it could become something special.
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  #217  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 12:55 PM
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This will probably be a stupid question, but is mention ever made of Lebreton Flats as a possible location for the hospital?
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  #218  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 1:30 PM
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Hard to blame the hospital about the parking. People have been screaming bloody murder about hospital parking for years. Some guy in Winnipeg that smashed a parking meter and was hailed as a hero, the province made a huge deal about capping parking fees at hospitals and media have been giving parking advocates massive print and air time. Hospital employees don't want to take transit, including because they often work weird hours when transit is unavailable or limited. Patients don't want to take transit for many reasons, including because they have mobility issues or are feeling unwell. Visitors don't want to take transit to the hospital.
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  #219  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Hard to blame the hospital about the parking. People have been screaming bloody murder about hospital parking for years. Some guy in Winnipeg that smashed a parking meter and was hailed as a hero, the province made a huge deal about capping parking fees at hospitals and media have been giving parking advocates massive print and air time. Hospital employees don't want to take transit, including because they often work weird hours when transit is unavailable or limited. Patients don't want to take transit for many reasons, including because they have mobility issues or are feeling unwell. Visitors don't want to take transit to the hospital.
I dunno - not everyone goes to the hospital with a fractured skull or the plague. Often, if you're not taking an ambulance, it's much more mundane: a follow-up visit, getting a prescription, visiting someone... these are all trips which can be done by transit and in many cases will arguably be more convenient than driving. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be parking - there definitively should be for a lot of the reasons you enumerated - but we should be looking to examples of small-footprint urban hospitals like in Montreal instead of trying to fit a sprawling, suburban hospital campus in Ottawa's central area.
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  #220  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 2:34 PM
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Be careful what you wish for. The new "super hospitals" in Mtl (both CHUM and MUHC) will have less beds than what they're replacing/consolidating. There's heavy criticism over there about those projects, especially in the medical community.

But I agree that we can't have seas of parking lots surrounding a new Civic. The parking should either go vertical, or underground, or both.
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