Ottawa Bypass Corridor

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

There’s almost no possibility of a highway going through Mer Bleue, it’s one of 37 Ramsar Convention protected wetland sites in Canada

It was a general suggestion.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You just reminded me of one of the main reasons why there is a bridge in the west and not in the east.

The first Champlain Bridge was built about 100 years ago so that the rich denizens in Ottawa's west end could access the recreational opportunities they particularly liked in Aylmer and other parts of West Quebec.

There was no such consideration on the eastern side of the region in those days.

(Funny how a number of road infrastructure decisions in Ottawa seem to have ethno-cultural and socio-economic dimensions. For example, the Vanier Parkway cuts straight through Vanier but dead ends as soon as you get to New Edinburgh.)

"In Ottawa"

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

There’s almost no possibility of a highway going through Mer Bleue, it’s one of 37 Ramsar Convention protected wetland sites in Canada

Or any part of the green belt for that matter. The only feasible route would be considerably further south, and given a little traffic is actually travelling through the City of Ottawa without stopping in Ottawa, a bypass that far south would be difficult to justify.

In a sense, Ottawa already has a bypass. It’s called the 401.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Or any part of the green belt for that matter. The only feasible route would be considerably further south, and given a little traffic is actually travelling through the City of Ottawa without stopping in Ottawa, a bypass that far south would be difficult to justify.

In a sense, Ottawa already has a bypass. It’s called the 401.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1UK_J7umHSwHHOxdKbP2CNjdQ43udDyI&usp=sharing

I updated a rough route. It is less than 20km from the existing 417, about 50km from the 401. It avoids the Mer Bleue and the Green Belt.

[sgera]

not a new idea - has been proposed and on the books with the MTO since 2001 and had a formal study done around it...kicked back up in 2010 under Larry O'brien's tenure..google 'Ottawa ring road' and you'll find the history.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1UK_J7umHSwHHOxdKbP2CNjdQ43udDyI&usp=sharing

I updated a rough route. It is less than 20km from the existing 417, about 50km from the 401. It avoids the Mer Bleue and the Green Belt.

It doesn't solve the problem that hardly anyone would use it. You don't build a 4 lane divided highway for a few hundred cars and maybe a dozen trucks per day. If you are making it 2 lanes, there are existing 2 lane roads that can work as a bypass (Mitch Owens Rd is often used), so there is no need to build something new.

Originally Posted by sgera

not a new idea - has been proposed and on the books with the MTO since 2001 and had a formal study done around it...kicked back up in 2010 under Larry O'brien's tenure..google 'Ottawa ring road' and you'll find the history.

Agreed. We have 15 pages of discussion in this thread on this.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It is a result of amalgamation. Carp is within the City of Ottawa, and since there is plenty of room still in Kanata/Stittsville, there is little point also developing Carp.

Arnprior (and Carleton Place which is growing even faster), are just outside of the western edge of the city. Since Lanark and Renfrew Counties want a piece of the pie, they are encouraging development.

I suspect Carp will eventually be developed though (and will become an extension of Kanata like Stittsville is).

The entire rural area of the City of Ottawa is basically a second Greenbelt at this point. The communities just beyond the City boundary (like Embrun, Kemptville, Arnprior, Carleton Place, etc.) are growing like gangbusters while the rural villages inside the city are not.

When you compare villages right outside the city border to villages right inside the city border it's night and day. Look at Vars vs. Embrun, Metcalfe vs. Russell, Osgoode vs. Kemptville, Fitzroy Harbour vs. Arnprior...

We have five layers to this city:
1) the inner area
2) the First Greenbelt
3) the first suburban ring (Orleans/Kanata/Barrhaven/Riverside South)
4) the Second Greenbelt ("rural Ottawa")
5) the second suburban ring (Rockland/Embrun/Casselman/Kemptville/Carleton Place/Almonte/Arnprior)

All because the city of Ottawa refuses to allow growth in the villages inside city limits. All those extra carbon emissions from people who are now commuting until they're just outside the City.

In an alternate world where the Harris government had excluded the rural townships of Ottawa-Carleton from amalgamation and made them a separate Carleton County instead, places like Carleton Place and Embrun would today probably be barely any bigger than they were back in 1995.

[acottawa]

I am not really sure what problem a bypass corridor would to solve.

There is no congestion between the start of 4-laning at the 416, congestion between the 416 and split is usually construction-related or rush hour only, east of that there is no congestion.

[J.OT13]

Don't know about the other villages, but Richmond and Manotick have seen significant growth in the past 15 years.

[Innsertnamehere]

If Ottawa were to ever get a bypass it should really go through the greenbelt, which is an insane policy choice as others have mentioned anyway. I don't think that will ever happen however..

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The entire rural area of the City of Ottawa is basically a second Greenbelt at this point. The communities just beyond the City boundary (like Embrun, Kemptville, Arnprior, Carleton Place, etc.) are growing like gangbusters while the rural villages inside the city are not.

When you compare villages right outside the city border to villages right inside the city border it's night and day. Look at Vars vs. Embrun, Metcalfe vs. Russell, Osgoode vs. Kemptville, Fitzroy Harbour vs. Arnprior...

We have five layers to this city:
1) the inner area
2) the First Greenbelt
3) the first suburban ring (Orleans/Kanata/Barrhaven/Riverside South)
4) the Second Greenbelt ("rural Ottawa")
5) the second suburban ring (Rockland/Embrun/Casselman/Kemptville/Carleton Place/Almonte/Arnprior)

All because the city of Ottawa refuses to allow growth in the villages inside city limits. All those extra carbon emissions from people who are now commuting until they're just outside the City.

In an alternate world where the Harris government had excluded the rural townships of Ottawa-Carleton from amalgamation and made them a separate Carleton County instead, places like Carleton Place and Embrun would today probably be barely any bigger than they were back in 1995.

I don't feel that having the city encourage more sprawl is the solution. I don't see how opening up development to Kinburn/Munster/Kars/Vars/Cumberland would be a significant improvement in terms of carbon emissions over developments in Rockland/Embrun/Casselman/Kemptville/Carleton Place/Almonte/Arnprior. If anything it would make living further from the city more popular and increase emissions by encouraging more people to live further from work. We need targeted development in locations close to employment districts (people don't only work downtown) with increased density. Building cheaper SFHs within city limits will scuttle those efforts.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I am not really sure what problem a bypass corridor would to solve.

There is no congestion between the start of 4-laning at the 416, congestion between the 416 and split is usually construction-related or rush hour only, east of that there is no congestion.

Agreed. It is a solution looking for a problem. I feel like some people are taking Douglas Adams's satire seriously:

“What do you mean, why's it got to be built?” he said. “It's a bypass. You've got to build bypasses.” Bypasses are devices that allow some people to dash from point A to point B very fast while other people dash from point B to point A very fast.

From The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Chapter 1

[J.OT13]

I don't see the need for a ByPass. If we suddenly stumble upon $Billions of dollars, it should go to transit, not another highway. The only road project I can support is the Kettle Island Bridge, a much downtown bypass for trucks and people who work and study on the Aviation-Montée Paiement corridor.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I don't see the need for a ByPass. If we suddenly stumble upon $Billions of dollars, it should go to transit, not another highway. The only road project I can support is the Kettle Island Bridge, a much downtown bypass for trucks and people who work and study on the Aviation-Montée Paiement corridor.

A Lac Deschenes bridge between Aylmer and Kanata North connecting Allumettieres to the 417 via a widened Cameron Harvey Dr./March Rd. would also be on my wish list before a new ring road, not just because I live here, but because it only makes too much sense.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It doesn't solve the problem that hardly anyone would use it. You don't build a 4 lane divided highway for a few hundred cars and maybe a dozen trucks per day. If you are making it 2 lanes, there are existing 2 lane roads that can work as a bypass (Mitch Owens Rd is often used), so there is no need to build something new.

Think of the section between Terry Fox Dr and Hunt Club Rd on 417.Throughout the day, it gets heavily congested. So, for those who are either crossing the city, or for those passing through the city, it provides a better route that may not be as congested. It can also be used to connect the airport with a highway. It can also be used as a way for a freeway connection to Quebec.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Don't know about the other villages, but Richmond and Manotick have seen significant growth in the past 15 years.

Ottawa has limited villages with full municipal services (water/sewer), whereas Kemptville, Arnprior, Russell/Embrun, Carleton Place, Winchester, Casselman etc all have full services. Richmond and Manotick are the only Ottawa villages really growing, as Carp has capacity/pipe issues and Munster is built-out as per the last Infrastructure Master Plan. Upgrades to Shadow Ridge in Greely are underway.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I don't see the need for a ByPass. If we suddenly stumble upon $Billions of dollars, it should go to transit, not another highway. The only road project I can support is the Kettle Island Bridge, a much downtown bypass for trucks and people who work and study on the Aviation-Montée Paiement corridor.

Originally Posted by Harley613

A Lac Deschenes bridge between Aylmer and Kanata North connecting Allumettieres to the 417 via a widened Cameron Harvey Dr./March Rd. would also be on my wish list before a new ring road, not just because I live here, but because it only makes too much sense.

I agree with all of these sentiments. The only way a bypass might make sense is if it was combined with the removal of the Queensway to provide better neighbourhood connectivity and then ban development near the bypass. This would be a very low priority though.

On a somewhat related note, apparently when cars were first becoming common and not having anywhere to park them was problematic (the term parking comes from people leaving their car on a piece of grass, aka a park), the solution initially proposed was to build park and rides in the outskirts and then have rapid transit to the core. The car and petroleum industries fought this plan and instead encouraged building highways into the core and construct parking garages there instead. The problem was, the cities couldn't keep up with the demand for parking on the most expensive land in the city.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Harley613

A Lac Deschenes bridge between Aylmer and Kanata North connecting Allumettieres to the 417 via a widened Cameron Harvey Dr./March Rd. would also be on my wish list before a new ring road, not just because I live here, but because it only makes too much sense.

Or, a new freeway from the 417 connecting to that area. Start thinking like a city and not like a little village. A freeway to the bridge on both sides to existing freeways are needed.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I agree with all of these sentiments. The only way a bypass might make sense is if it was combined with the removal of the Queensway to provide better neighbourhood connectivity and then ban development near the bypass. This would be a very low priority though.

On a somewhat related note, apparently when cars were first becoming common and not having anywhere to park them was problematic (the term parking comes from people leaving their car on a piece of grass, aka a park), the solution initially proposed was to build park and rides in the outskirts and then have rapid transit to the core. The car and petroleum industries fought this plan and instead encouraged building highways into the core and construct parking garages there instead. The problem was, the cities couldn't keep up with the demand for parking on the most expensive land in the city.

Removing the existing freeway is not going to make the city traffic flow better.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Think of the section between Terry Fox Dr and Hunt Club Rd on 417.Throughout the day, it gets heavily congested. So, for those who are either crossing the city, or for those passing through the city, it provides a better route that may not be as congested. It can also be used to connect the airport with a highway. It can also be used as a way for a freeway connection to Quebec.

But it doesn't get heavily congested throughout the day. Just looking at google now, at 3 pm it takes 20 minutes to travel 32 km, that is a 90 kph average speed. It may get briefly congested from about 4:30-5:30 or there might be construction or accident related congestion, but it is not normally in a congested state.