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  #14801  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2023, 4:54 PM
Blah_Amazing Blah_Amazing is offline
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Wolf Station

https://citizenportal.slcgov.com/Cit...howInspection=

Address: 1625 W North Temple

The Basics: 6 floors. 136 residential units.










The project replaces a different planned project, '1625 W. North Temple' which was also 6 floors but had only 111 residential units planned.

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  #14802  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2023, 7:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho View Post
Another point to this story is the U of U baseball team plays at Smith's Ballpark. It's not going to save the stadium from being replaced with whatever, but there's a story in the Tribune about the school now looking at building an on-campus stadium for the team.
That’s it!

Rather than build a new stadium on campus, which brings up all sorts of location and traffic issues, The U of U should buy the stadium, as well as land around it (including Horizonte), for another campus. AND, conveniently it sits on the same University TRAX line, so getting between campuses will be easy.

Another campus at this location would increase property values in the neighborhood and encourage improvements to the housing stock.

Could also simultaneously be used for concerts, firework shows, or an Olympics medals plaza.

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Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
Something awesome there already exists…


Last edited by Old&New; Jan 18, 2023 at 8:15 PM.
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  #14803  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2023, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Reeder113 View Post
Real SL is in neighboring Sandy, and they're doing just fine. Bangerter Hwy (which is slowly becoming a freeway) runs right alongside Daybreak with an interchange at 11400 S (Not to mention Mountain View which runs right through the middle of it). The stadium will likely be sandwiched between two freeways at some point.

I'd still rather attend a game in South Jordan over 13th South any day of the week. I'll definitely be attending more games once the new stadium is built.
Real Salt Lake's stadium is near I-15.

Sure, Bangerter and MVC will help people from WVC, West Jordan get to the stadium, but most people in the valley live east of State St. The SW quadrant of the valley is difficult to get to from I-15.
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  #14804  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2023, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
The city should do everything it can to find another tenant, even if it's in direct competition with the Bees. I doubt that's practical but they need to exhaust every measure to save that stadium instead of just shrugging and moving on.
My thoughts exactly. Get a new team to compete against the Bees.
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  #14805  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2023, 10:53 PM
TheGeographer TheGeographer is offline
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Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
Real Salt Lake's stadium is near I-15.

Sure, Bangerter and MVC will help people from WVC, West Jordan get to the stadium, but most people in the valley live east of State St. The SW quadrant of the valley is difficult to get to from I-15.
Yes the Southwest side of the valley is hard to get to if you live in Salt Lake. As someone who lives in the southwest side of the valley I would say it’s not as hard as some people make it seem, but that’s just my perspective. It’s a 45 minute ride on trax from downtown. Despite my location that could make me biased I still would prefer the Bees to be at Smiths ballpark, a 40 min trax ride from daybreak. Makes sense to keep the entertainment in our capital city. It’s fun to have an excuse to go to Salt Lake other than the occasional time I have to break free from my remote work and meet downtown for work.

As a side note you may find it interesting that developed land east of I-15 make up about 66,000 acres of land (plus or minus couple thousand), and developed land west of I-15 make up around 92,000 acres. This doesn’t account for population density, but you’d be surprised at how much medium-high density housing they’re putting up out here. The west side has rapidly grown and more and more people are living there because it’s more affordable than the east side. Why I’m there
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  #14806  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2023, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Old&New View Post
That’s it!

Rather than build a new stadium on campus, which brings up all sorts of location and traffic issues, The U of U should buy the stadium, as well as land around it (including Horizonte), for another campus. AND, conveniently it sits on the same University TRAX line, so getting between campuses will be easy.

Another campus at this location would increase property values in the neighborhood and encourage improvements to the housing stock.

Could also simultaneously be used for concerts, firework shows, or an Olympics medals plaza.
I’m not really a baseball fan but went to games every once in a while because it was conveniently located and it was fun going to lucky 13 before.

I will never go to daybreak for a game… that is a big nope for me.
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  #14807  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2023, 11:54 PM
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I love the idea of the U taking over the stadium and potentially investing in the area. I think that might be the best idea I've heard - so, it's likely not going to happen.
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  #14808  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 2:35 AM
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I have to clarify, and say that I fully agree with everything you said, I would have loved for the team to stay in SLC where i feel like they belong, and will do the best. I agree with everything that others have said and pointed out as well about the fact that the community grew up around the baseball field being there. If it were up to me I would absolutely keep the stadium there and make it a gem for the surrounding community....that being said, I feel like it is already unfortunately being made pretty clear that they have zero, or close to zero intention of keeping that area anything to do with baseball. So when I say something awesome there, I don't say it with intent that there isn't already something truely amazing there, because I believe there is already that option there...I'm only saying if you're insisting on taking a gem away from a city and have already made up your mind about that I would hope they don't replace a gem with a turd pile. Long story short, I think you're not wrong at all.
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  #14809  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 2:45 AM
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I have to clarify, and say that I fully agree with everything you said, I would have loved for the team to stay in SLC where i feel like they belong, and will do the best. I agree with everything that others have said and pointed out as well about the fact that the community grew up around the baseball field being there. If it were up to me I would absolutely keep the stadium there and make it a gem for the surrounding community....that being said, I feel like it is already unfortunately being made pretty clear that they have zero, or close to zero intention of keeping that area anything to do with baseball. So when I say something awesome there, I don't say it with intent that there isn't already something truely amazing there, because I believe there is already that option there...I'm only saying if you're insisting on taking a gem away from a city and have already made up your mind about that I would hope they don't replace a gem with a turd pile. Long story short, I think you're not wrong at all.
I'm gonna keep fighting until the wrecking ball actually hits the thing.

Salt Lake can't lose this ballpark. I'm about to go Hungry, Hungry Homer on the city.

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  #14810  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 3:06 AM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
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If a use can't be found for the stadium, and quickly, it should be demolished. It is beautiful, and in a great location, but an empty, unused stadium is one of the biggest eyesores I can imagine.

If the U of U bought it and renovated it, and made a mini-campus there, that would be awesome. Obviously, I have no idea if the U has any interest in that. And wouldn't that stadium be way too big for a college baseball team? I don't know much about baseball, especially college baseball, which isn't nearly as big or lucrative as college basketball and football.

Comrade is right about the Millers though. They have done next to nothing to actually invest in this community. They rented the stadium for cheap cheap cheap, and didn't invest any of that extra money into improving the surrounding neighborhood. Some of that is surely on Salt Lake City, but Salt Lake City actually made the effort to develop the Ballpark Master Plan, and worked with the Millers on that, only for the Millers to bail on us anyway. Aside from keeping the Jazz in Utah back in the 80s, when it was no guarantee they would stay, what have the Millers really done for Salt Lake City? Some car dealerships and a mediocre movie theater chain?

Moving the team to the suburbs is a slap in the face to the city, and the Millers know it. Obviously, I would rather see that stadium utilized, and with a baseball team that can spur at least some development around it (I'm not sure, realistically, how much development a minor league team could procure), but to the Millers I say good riddance, personally.
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  #14811  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 3:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bob rulz View Post
If a use can't be found for the stadium, and quickly, it should be demolished. It is beautiful, and in a great location, but an empty, unused stadium is one of the biggest eyesores I can imagine.

If the U of U bought it and renovated it, and made a mini-campus there, that would be awesome. Obviously, I have no idea if the U has any interest in that. And wouldn't that stadium be way too big for a college baseball team? I don't know much about baseball, especially college baseball, which isn't nearly as big or lucrative as college basketball and football.

Comrade is right about the Millers though. They have done next to nothing to actually invest in this community. They rented the stadium for cheap cheap cheap, and didn't invest any of that extra money into improving the surrounding neighborhood. Some of that is surely on Salt Lake City, but Salt Lake City actually made the effort to develop the Ballpark Master Plan, and worked with the Millers on that, only for the Millers to bail on us anyway. Aside from keeping the Jazz in Utah back in the 80s, when it was no guarantee they would stay, what have the Millers really done for Salt Lake City? Some car dealerships and a mediocre movie theater chain?

Moving the team to the suburbs is a slap in the face to the city, and the Millers know it. Obviously, I would rather see that stadium utilized, and with a baseball team that can spur at least some development around it (I'm not sure, realistically, how much development a minor league team could procure), but to the Millers I say good riddance, personally.
My hope is that the city exhausts every measure at finding a tenant for the stadium. My concern is that some in the city don't appear to be interested in even that and instead are frothing at the mouth to develop the land. That is a terrible starting point and something that forces me to question the current mayor and city council.

I'm sure the mayor knew before an official announcement that the Millers were going to relocate to Daybreak (and it's not a shock, as it's been rumored ever since Larry Miller bought the team that they were interested in bailing for the suburbs - and finally got what they needed by acquiring Daybreak themselves) but within the hour of the Bees announcement, she was already using language to suggest a post-ballpark plan and that I don't like. I can't get on board with so quickly abandoning any potential to make tt work with the ballpark - even if it's to renovate the ballpark into, say, an amphitheater. Hartford did that with their minor league ballpark and I think it turned out great:




As for the Millers, I am grateful for what they've done in the past. I do respect Gail Miller and her focus on homelessness. But bob is right here - the Millers have owned the Bees for almost 20 years now. There has not been any attempt to invest in that neighborhood. Sure, that's their right to just be a tenant of the neighborhood and nothing more. I can't say I respect that, especially when we hear how great stewards to the community they are, but it is their right.

The thing is, the Millers, even Larry, have never been proactive in developing the community. Not the Salt Lake community.

Look at what Steve Ballmer did in Inglewood - he invested $100 million into the city and that's not to build the arena - that's to build the community around the arena.

There was never any investment by the Millers in the area around the Delta Center during the years they owned the franchise. And again, that's their right. But I think it shows the Millers never viewed Salt Lake City as the home of their franchises - rather just the location.

The area around the Delta Center, for ten years, mostly sat rundown and crime-filled throughout the 90s. If you weren't going to a Jazz game or a concert, you rarely ventured over to that area because it was filled with abandoned warehouses, homelessness, prostitutes, crime, drugs and a railyard (ironically, the same thing people are critical about the Ballpark Neighborhood right now).

Was there any investment from the Millers to push for affordable housing or retail development there?

No. Instead, the Millers went to the suburbs, where they built Jordan Commons and moved the day-to-day operations of their company to an office mid-rise there.

The development we did see was built out of the Gateway, a project that began with federal help cleaning up the Brownfield area west of the arena and then moving the tracks around there.

I'll credit Miller that he was able to partner with Boyer to put his theater chain in there (though, if not Megaplex, it would have been another theater chain lol).

Woohoo!

I have no doubt that if the Millers hadn't sold the Jazz, they would be looking to move them out that way too. Maybe they don't like Salt Lake - maybe they feel it's too big city-ish and they don't want to deal with the issues that a big city often faces. Regardless, the Millers never committed to the Ballpark neighborhood and while I don't think they owe anything to the area, it's a shame they never felt the need to invest in it. I always said the Ballpark area could be Salt Lake's mini-Wrigleyville and it finally looked like we were getting there with the new development popping up over the last ten or so years.

Really, I could see this move back in 2005 only because I do think the Ballpark area was underutilized. But today? It's extra sucky because how much the city has actually invested in the area.
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  #14812  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 4:13 AM
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Another interesting option (amphitheater).

OR, Bring the Oakland A’s or the Tampa Rays to Salt Lake City. Smith’s Ballpark holds 15,400.

Quote:
The Athletics team attendance ranks dead last in all of baseball in 2022, with an average attendance of just 8,283 people.
https://www.sportskeeda.com/amp/base...es-near-future

Quote:
The Ballpark, now known as Smith's Ballpark…with a seating capacity of 15,400, the largest in the PCL.
https://www.milb.com/salt-lake/ballp...ballpark-facts
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  #14813  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 4:38 AM
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For sure the #1 option would be to retain the stadium for a new team. I just don't know how viable that is. I wish Ryan Smith would speak out but he's unlikely to (not against the Millers, just in general).
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  #14814  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 5:44 AM
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Sorry to be pedantic, but that's actually Bridgeport, CT, not Hartford, CT. The ballpark used to be called The Ballpark at Harbor Yard. It was slated to be part of a larger development modeled after Baltimore's Camden Yards. The ballpark and eventually the arena, home of the AHL's Bridgeport Islanders (nee, Sound Tigers), and Fairfield University's basketball team are all that came of it. The ballpark hosted the Bridgeport Bluefish of the independent Atlantic League.

The issue is, Bridgeport and surrounding suburbs are actually themselves all suburbs of New York City. People in the area would rather go to the Yankees games down in The Bronx than independent ball. So the owner of the park realized he'd make more money off of concerts and folded the baseball team up.

Interestingly, Hartford actually just opened Dunkin Donuts Park a few years back. Very nice park, holds about 6,500 right downtown, home to the AA Eastern League's Hartford Yard Goats, randomly enough an affiliate of the Rockies.

Really a shame what's happening to Smith's it's one of the nicest ballparks in the minors. Wish they'd just spruce it up rather than abandon it. I'm curious, do you folks think the new ballpark will be comparable in size to Smith's, which I know is very large for a minor league park.
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  #14815  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 6:36 AM
TheGeographer TheGeographer is offline
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Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
My hope is that the city exhausts every measure at finding a tenant for the stadium. My concern is that some in the city don't appear to be interested in even that and instead are frothing at the mouth to develop the land. That is a terrible starting point and something that forces me to question the current mayor and city council.

I'm sure the mayor knew before an official announcement that the Millers were going to relocate to Daybreak (and it's not a shock, as it's been rumored ever since Larry Miller bought the team that they were interested in bailing for the suburbs - and finally got what they needed by acquiring Daybreak themselves) but within the hour of the Bees announcement, she was already using language to suggest a post-ballpark plan and that I don't like. I can't get on board with so quickly abandoning any potential to make tt work with the ballpark - even if it's to renovate the ballpark into, say, an amphitheater. Hartford did that with their minor league ballpark and I think it turned out great:
They knew ahead of this announcement. I knew about 8 months ago from someone I know that leaked the info to me. How much control the city had over the Millers move to daybreak I’m not so sure on. Seems like they were set on going to daybreak no matter what the city did/promised to do.
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  #14816  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 6:57 AM
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What if this whole contest is a Amazon HQ2 situation where they already know what they are going to do with the ballpark but want to make it look like they are open to ideas?
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  #14817  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 9:44 AM
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I don't disagree Comrade that the city should attempt to find another use for the ballpark. I just don't want it to be a long, drawn-out process that takes so long to come to fruition that it starts to fall apart and hurt the neighborhood. If it's going to be re-used, they should figure something out within 2 years or so. Otherwise, I think it's better to just demolish it, but I do agree that they should try.

Quote:
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What if this whole contest is a Amazon HQ2 situation where they already know what they are going to do with the ballpark but want to make it look like they are open to ideas?
I doubt it. I imagine the city was trying to find a way to persuade the Millers to keep the Bees there until the last possible second. Also, maybe I'm naive, but I genuinely don't think the city would make such a big decision about such a huge piece of land so early on and then just pretend like they are having an open process. Of course, that doesn't mean they don't have preferences.
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  #14818  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 3:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
Real Salt Lake's stadium is near I-15.

Sure, Bangerter and MVC will help people from WVC, West Jordan get to the stadium, but most people in the valley live east of State St. The SW quadrant of the valley is difficult to get to from I-15.
It's true that people in Salt Lake, Millcreek, etc are going to have to travel further. But for those in Holladay, Sandy, etc, we're only talking about 5-15 minutes of extra travel time. It's not like the stadium is moving 2 hours away. And for those in Draper, Riverton, South Jordan, etc, it's going to be a much quicker drive.

Quicker for some, longer for others.
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  #14819  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 3:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
I'm gonna keep fighting until the wrecking ball actually hits the thing.

Salt Lake can't lose this ballpark. I'm about to go Hungry, Hungry Homer on the city.

Comrade, are you going to be the Pantages Theater guy v2.0? What was his name, Michael Valentine? Are you gonna chain yourself to the park when they bust out the wrecking ball?

I'm kidding, of course. Don't do that!
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  #14820  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 4:14 PM
ucsbgaucho ucsbgaucho is offline
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My thoughts exactly. Get a new team to compete against the Bees.
Not getting another baseball team, the only option would be an independent league and those are really small, think the Ogden Raptors of the Pioneer League. Independent teams play in cities with no MLB or MLB-affiliate teams. SLC is not going to care about a random new minor league team, remember the Alliance of American Football and the SLC Stallions that lasted all of one year here before the whole league folded?
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