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  #541  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2022, 4:24 PM
originalmuffins originalmuffins is offline
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Very curious what will come of the Catherine street terminal, I'm hoping we see some decent height and actual mixed use.

I also agree that Via/Tremblay would be a great place to centre a redevelopment/expansion for a hub.
3 reasons IMO:

1. Proximity to Hurdman, it isn't too hard to have Tremblay continuously connected to Hurdman via bus (which is fairly simple to keep running).

2. Greater connection between the Via Tremblay Terminal and Bus Terminal, so one can easily find alternatives if their method of transportation doesn't work out (bus cancelllation, go with the train and vice versa).

3. It can connect the major bus terminal to VIA/Fallowfield. I was just tinkering with it, and if someone is willing to go via bus - they can actually do a train connection to Tremblay from Fallowfield if they're coming from the West (Also kind of interesting because I think Via should advertise that route, it's a unique intercity route within the Via Rail network especially for patrons needing to get to St. Laurent area from Algonquin/Barrhaven - it's a 20 minute ride so kinda cool to think about).


Only negative is this wouldn't have a great connection with the airport (which would be useful for users of direct buses to Cornwall, Brockville, etc) but that might not even be necessary at the moment.
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  #542  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2022, 8:13 PM
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Originally Posted by originalmuffins View Post
Very curious what will come of the Catherine street terminal, I'm hoping we see some decent height and actual mixed use.

I also agree that Via/Tremblay would be a great place to centre a redevelopment/expansion for a hub.
3 reasons IMO:

1. Proximity to Hurdman, it isn't too hard to have Tremblay continuously connected to Hurdman via bus (which is fairly simple to keep running).

2. Greater connection between the Via Tremblay Terminal and Bus Terminal, so one can easily find alternatives if their method of transportation doesn't work out (bus cancelllation, go with the train and vice versa).

3. It can connect the major bus terminal to VIA/Fallowfield. I was just tinkering with it, and if someone is willing to go via bus - they can actually do a train connection to Tremblay from Fallowfield if they're coming from the West (Also kind of interesting because I think Via should advertise that route, it's a unique intercity route within the Via Rail network especially for patrons needing to get to St. Laurent area from Algonquin/Barrhaven - it's a 20 minute ride so kinda cool to think about).


Only negative is this wouldn't have a great connection with the airport (which would be useful for users of direct buses to Cornwall, Brockville, etc) but that might not even be necessary at the moment.
I would also love to see a multi-modal hub around the VIA Station near Tremblay that includes VIA trains, intercity bus service and O-Train/local transit access.

The big irony is that Montreal's Airport is very well connected directly to that station through the KLM/Air France shuttle bus.

If in the future we could run a frequent 97 route all the way between VIA/Tremblay and the airport or even a new express airport bus like some other cities do that has no stops (or nearly no stops) until the airport, we would end up with better airport connectivity through the remaining Transitway section between Hurdman and South Keys for people going to this multi-modal Tremblay station and locals taking transit to the airport from the East, with others in the West or along the Trillium line having the Line 4 alternative available too.

One thing I think we should avoid though is a forced transfer for the bus at South Keys for people coming from Tremblay. Otherwise they would need to connect in two places (Tremblay and South Keys) instead of a much more convenient one place (the big new transit hub at Tremblay)!
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  #543  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2022, 11:04 PM
BenYOW BenYOW is offline
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Red Arrow is entering the Toronto to Ottawa bus market as of December 4, 2022. Service will be for four daily trips between December 4 and December 7, becoming six daily trips from December 8 onwards. Stops in Scarborough and Kingston.

Unlike the incumbents on this route, I believe Red Arrow will be the only operator with a 2x1 seating configuration? Their press release and online coverage is emphasizing the premium experience of their service offerings.

If I'm keeping track properly, Red Arrow will be the fourth operator on this route, joining Megabus, Flix Bus, Rider Express, and Book a Ride.

Press Release
Quote:
On December 4th, Red Arrow will launch service between Toronto and Ottawa seven days a week, initially with 4 daily trips. Then on December 8th with its full six daily trip schedule. This stress-free service includes stops in Scarborough and Kingston, allowing our passengers a greater selection of destinations to embark and disembark.
...
Since its inception, Red Arrow has provided a safe, reliable, and stress-free travel experience with premium single-row privacy seating, advanced seat selection, onboard entertainment, complimentary Wi-Fi, snacks, and beverages.
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  #544  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2022, 12:47 PM
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Red Arrow bus company starting up daily Ottawa-Toronto trips
Red Arrow's online schedule shows three trips each way daily.

Staff Reporter, Ottawa Citizen
Dec 06, 2022 • 12 hours ago • 1 minute read




A new bus service between Ottawa and Toronto is beginning to take passengers, filling part of the travelling void created by the end of Greyhound Canada service to the national capital in May 2021.
Article content

Red Arrow began limited Ottawa-Toronto service starting on Sunday, but the official launch of service three times daily, each way, will be on Thursday. John Stepovy, director of motorcoach for Motor Coach Canada, said Tuesday that ribbon-cutting ceremonies would be held simultaneously in both cities.

An introductory one-way fare of $25 is in place through Wednesday, with the regular one-way cost of $97 kicking in on Friday. The service will run between Via Rail’s main station in Ottawa and Union Station in Toronto.

The schedule posted on the Red Arrow website shows west-bound buses leaving Ottawa at 10:30 a.m., 3:40 p.m. and 5:40 p.m. East-bound buses from Toronto will depart at 8:30 a.m., 10:30 a.m. and 6:15 p.m., with each trip scheduled to take about five hours and 10 minutes.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...y-starting-up-daily-ottawa-toronto-trips
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  #545  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 8:22 PM
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If I'm keeping track properly, Red Arrow will be the fourth operator on this route, joining Megabus, Flix Bus, Rider Express, and Book a Ride.
Seems to me they all only offer express or limited stop service. AFAIK, none provide the local service that Greyhound offered.
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  #546  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 8:32 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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Seems to me they all only offer express or limited stop service. AFAIK, none provide the local service that Greyhound offered.
Rider Express has started adding more stops to various runs including Belleville and a via Peterborough run.

https://riderexpress.ticpoi.com/public/routes/ottowa---toronto

I think as more companies pile in, there will be motivation to try and be different. Clearly Red Arrow is trying to be fancier.

Last edited by c_speed3108; Dec 9, 2022 at 8:43 PM.
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  #547  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by c_speed3108 View Post
Rider Express has started adding more stops to various runs including Belleville and a via Peterborough run.

https://riderexpress.ticpoi.com/public/routes/ottowa---toronto
Thanks for the update. Certainly an improvement, but still not the local service previously offered. Stops at small towns don't add much revenue, but they accumulate to a significantly longer end to end travel time.

Quote:
I think as more companies pile in, there will be motivation to try and be different. Clearly Red Arrow is trying to be fancier.
That is certainly true. Each needs to do what they can to stand out and attract riders.
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  #548  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 1:50 AM
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With Greyhound gone, new bus services move into Ottawa ⁠— most destined for Toronto or Montreal

Andrew Duffy, Ottawa Citizen
Published Dec 28, 2022 • 6 minute read




Ottawa’s long-time central bus terminal, abandoned during the pandemic, is now surrounded by construction hoarding as workers prepare the site for a 27-storey development.

The demise of the venerable Catherine Street station came last year on the heels of the May 2021 announcement ⁠— inconceivable to many ⁠— that Greyhound Canada would be closing all of its bus operations in Canada after almost a century of service.

It seemed inter city bus travel had permanently left the station.

But a funny thing happened on the way to obsolescence: In the year-and-a-half since Greyhound pulled out of the city, a host of new, long-distance coach services have come roaring back to replace it.

There are now at least nine bus services to choose from for passengers looking to go from Ottawa to places such as Toronto, Kingston and Montreal. But the new services mostly connect major cities along main highways, leaving people in small towns and rural areas disconnected from a transportation network that used to be a vital part of their communities.

Josh McEvoy, a volunteer with Free Transit Ottawa, said the frayed inter-city bus system is unfair to those who cannot afford a car in small town Ontario.

“It’s made access to things like medical care, jobs, support networks and recreation more difficult and costly for those without easy access to a car,” said McEvoy, a Queen’s University doctoral student.

The state of the country’s inter-city transport is now being studied by the House of Commons Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. Last month, the committee heard a blunt assessment of that system.

“Today’s inter-city bus network is a national embarrassment,” declared Kasper Wabinksi, president of Kasper Transportation, a bus firm in Thunder Bay that operates 16 buses on four daily routes in northern Ontario.

The problem, he said, is that firms tend to operate only in small geographic areas, plying the country’s most lucrative travel corridors.

“You can’t have every bus company investing in Toronto to Ottawa routes,” Wabinksi said in an interview.

Vince Accardi, president of Motor Coach Canada, an industry group representing bus operators, told the committee Greyhound’s departure has left many small towns without connections to bigger towns and cities.

“The vast majority of operators are not subsidized,” he noted. “These companies depend on the fares they collect on their ticket sales alone, and this means that many rural and remote communities will likely stay disconnected, with limited or no transportation options for years to come.”

The committee heard that inter-city bus routes today cover only about half of the area serviced by Greyhound in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and B.C.

Canadians are no longer able to travel coast-to-coast on a single bus ticket.

Rider Express is one of the companies that has moved into the Ottawa market following the collapse of Greyhound, which used to dominate the country’s passenger bus industry. Greyhound also operated many of the country’s central bus terminals, including those in Ottawa, London, Winnipeg and Calgary, all of which are now closed.

Omer Kanca, assistant general manager at Rider Express, said the loss of those terminals complicates parcel delivery, bus transfers and other logistics of inter-city bus travel.

“Having no terminals is a major obstacle, and they’re very expensive to operate,” he said in an interview.

Kanca is among those who believe the inter-city system cannot be rebuilt in Canada without government help. Private operators, he said, need governments to pay for central bus terminals and to subsidize money-losing routes through Canada’s small towns, often separated by long distances.

“Some routes are just not financially viable given the population density and passenger traffic,” he said.

Kasper Wabinski said the country’s bus network has been in decline since the 1980s when the federal government handed provinces the job of regulating inter-city buses. The provinces have put in place inconsistent regulations that make it difficult ⁠— and expensive ⁠— for bus companies to operate coaches that take passengers between provinces.

Buses that travel between provinces need special licences or daily permits, and each new stop requires a business licence.

Wabinski wants the federal government to reassert control over the inter-city bus industry, and create a highway transportation board that limits the number of carriers on major routes and incentivizes companies to serve smaller communities.

Some provinces have already started to subsidize the bus industry.

In B.C., the province stepped in after Greyhound announced it was ending service along Highway 16, the notorious Highway of Tears where dozens of women — the vast majority of them Indigenous — have gone missing or been murdered. The province invested more than $4 million to help B.C. Transit, a Crown corporation, expand inter-city bus service in the region. Local communities also contributed to the program.

In Ontario, Ontario Northland, a Crown corporation, expanded its routes in northwestern parts of the province after Greyhound pulled out of the region in 2018. Ontario Northland offers once-a-day service along the Trans-Canada Highway. (Its fares cover about 80 per cent of the cost of its coach service with the province making up for the shortfall; it also receives capital funding.)

In 2021, Premier Doug Ford’s Progressive Conservative government deregulated the inter-city transportation sector in an attempt to bring more private players into the marketplace, but the new firms have mostly converged on the province’s busiest traffic corridors.

Some have called instead for a publicly-owned inter-city bus network or one operated by an expanded VIA Rail. Josh McEvoy contends that only a publicly-owned network can guarantee more rural routes, a system integrated with trains, and reduced greenhouse gas emissions.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities is expected to issue a report on inter-city busing next year.

The Ottawa region now has at least nine bus lines offering passenger coach service, including:
  • Red Arrow, the most recent arrival in the local market, began a limited Ottawa to Toronto coach service earlier this month. It offers trips to Toronto three times a day with a stop in Kingston.
  • Megabus runs up to six trips a day between Ottawa and Toronto with the earliest at 9 a.m. and the latest at 4 p.m.
  • FlixBus moved into Ontario last year, and now has routes that encompass Ottawa, Kingston, Oshawa, Toronto, Hamilton, London, Chatham and Windsor.
  • Rider Express, first launched in Saskatchewan in 2017, offers an Ottawa to Toronto express service; it also offers an Ottawa to Toronto service four times a week with stops in Kanata, Carleton Place, Perth, Madoc, Marmora and Peterborough.
  • Ontario Northland, a Crown corporation reporting to the Ontario Ministry of Transportation, has a motorcoach division that offers bus service from Ottawa to smaller centres such as Arnprior, Renfrew, Cobden, Deep River, Mattawa and North Bay.
  • Book A Ride is an inter-city bus service connecting Ottawa, Kingston, Toronto, London and Kitchener along with other towns on the route.
  • Orléans Express offers six coach trips a day to Montreal with connections to more than 30 Quebec destinations.
  • Autobus Maheux offers daily service to Montreal and Laval from Ottawa and Gatineau.
  • Tour Express also offers bus service seven-days-a-week between Ottawa and Montreal, with regular service to Montreal’s Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport.

Passengers trying to find the best, most convenient bus ride can turn to Busbud, a Montreal-based start-up, that offers an online ticket gateway to inter-city bus services in the area.

In addition to conventional buses, inter-city travellers can also use ride sharing services such as Poparide, which have become particularly popular among the student crowd. Poparide bills itself as a city-to-city carpooling service.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...a0-most-destined-for-toronto-or-montreal

Last edited by rocketphish; Dec 29, 2022 at 2:00 AM.
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  #549  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 2:14 AM
eltodesukane eltodesukane is offline
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"Megabus runs up to six trips a day between Ottawa and Toronto with the earliest at 9 a.m. and the latest at 4 p.m."

9 a.m. is quite late if you want to spend the whole working day in Toronto.
Is there an earlier bus to Toronto from some other bus line?
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  #550  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 2:19 AM
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Where do these buses load and unload passengers? I've seen some using St-Laurent Station which is...embarrassing, I guess.
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  #551  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 3:04 AM
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Where do these buses load and unload passengers? I've seen some using St-Laurent Station which is...embarrassing, I guess.
Others use the VIA Rail station, which is a good location for a bus depot.
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  #552  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 4:26 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Others use the VIA Rail station, which is a good location for a bus depot.
The inconsistent passenger pickup location is a problem. Someone put a schedule of all the different services together with their pick up locations and it is very confusing.
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  #553  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 4:27 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Where do these buses load and unload passengers? I've seen some using St-Laurent Station which is...embarrassing, I guess.
It's pretty convenient actually with LRT And highway access.
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  #554  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2022, 4:40 PM
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It's pretty convenient actually with LRT And highway access.
Yes, it's a pretty good location.

Any thoughts on the construction of a separate building for them there, or if they even need one?
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  #555  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2023, 3:13 PM
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Is the bus back? Why these companies are betting Ontarians will travel this way in 2023
New bus companies hope to break into the market, while existing operators look to ramp up operations

Vanessa Balintec · CBC News
Posted: Jan 01, 2023 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 1 hour ago


With the main competitor out of the way, bus companies are eyeing Ontario as the latest market to capitalize on travellers, tourists and students looking for better ways to cross the province and the border.

Red Arrow, an Alberta-based company in operation since 1979, is one of them. It launched in the province early December with a route connecting downtown Toronto, Scarborough, Kingston and Ottawa — something John Stepovy, director of the company's motorcoach division, says partly came out of requests from customers to set up shop in Ontario.

"We've been watching and planning for quite a while and felt that the time is right now, as people are starting to travel a little bit more," said John Stepovy, the director of the company's motorcoach division.

"Once we're established, then definitely the vision is for growth."

The bus industry has been hard-hit by the COVID-19 pandemic, leading one of the country's biggest service providers, Greyhound Canada, to cease operations in 2021. But with most travel restrictions lifted, competitors like Red Arrow are hoping to start their services, with existing competitors like megabus and Flixbus looking to increase operations and fill the gap Greyhound has left behind.

"In Canada overall, especially in Ontario, you know, we've seen a really nice recovery," said Colin Emberson, the vice-president of commercial at Coach USA, which operates megabus.

"I think with what's going on in the world with fuel prices … it's a really good, safe, green and economical option for travel."

The company focuses on cross-border travel out of Toronto. During the pandemic, it launched routes from Toronto to London and Toronto to Ottawa, while maintaining its existing connections to St. Catharines, Ottawa, Kingston, Cornwall, Grimsby and Brockville.

In December it added a connection from the city to Batavia, N.Y., and expanded service on five other Toronto-New York routes.

"The sales we're seeing come in so far are definitely encouraging," Emberson said.

Flixbus, a German company that says it's the world's largest-reaching bus provider, acquired Greyhound in 2021 and entered the Canadian market in spring 2022.

Launching with just three routes last April with Toronto as its main focus, Flixbus has quadrupled, at least, the number of routes it serves, ranging as far west as Chatham to the province's east end in Ottawa.

"Canada just blew away all our expectations," said Pierre Gourdain, the managing director of Flixbus operations in Canada and the U.S.

Goudrain says the company has transported over 100,000 passengers since operations began. He says it's establishing its cross border service from Windsor to Detroit, which is expected to launch early 2023.

The company has also noted Canadians are eager to offset their carbon emissions by paying extra toward projects that Flixbus says save carbon.

"People who travel by bus, they're not always the richest ones, but the level of engagement has been super impressive," said Goudrain, who noted Canadians have chosen to compensate for thousands of kilograms of carbon emitted so far.

He hopes Flixbus's success in Ontario will serve as a "blueprint" model for operations in other provinces, particularly as other bus companies look to break through the Ontario market.

"It's new business, it's a lot of new jobs and more importantly, it's a healthy competitive environment where people now really need to deliver good quality if they want to grow, and passengers get to choose the best service for them."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/bus-companies-capture-ontario-market-1.6661950
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  #556  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2023, 3:29 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yes, it's a pretty good location.

Any thoughts on the construction of a separate building for them there, or if they even need one?
When you see busses operate out of basically a city bus stop it's hard to see what the point of a bus station actually is. Sure you can wait there. But package service, checked luggage and ticket sales are all obsolete.
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  #557  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2023, 3:03 PM
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Apparently a new federal department is currently being formed to look into high frequency rail between Toronto & Quebec city. Not sure why Niagara to Toronto is not included.

https://hfr-tgf.ca/
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  #558  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2023, 5:35 PM
passwordisnt123 passwordisnt123 is offline
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Ugh. They're really going to double down on the High Frequency Rail thing aren't they? It's soon to be 2024 and there's literally no other industrialized country on Earth that's going all-in on low speed trains. Got to respect the visionary ambition that locks Canada into an intercity rail network that ensures we stay far behind that super hyper-advanced country of Uzbekistan for at least the next generation.
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  #559  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2023, 6:24 PM
eltodesukane eltodesukane is offline
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My grandfather says when he was young, the new super rapid "TurboTrain" was going to be the future. Somehow it didn't work and that future never happened.
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  #560  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2023, 7:09 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by passwordisnt123 View Post
Ugh. They're really going to double down on the High Frequency Rail thing aren't they? It's soon to be 2024 and there's literally no other industrialized country on Earth that's going all-in on low speed trains. Got to respect the visionary ambition that locks Canada into an intercity rail network that ensures we stay far behind that super hyper-advanced country of Uzbekistan for at least the next generation.
If you can figure out how to pay for it, we can have better. The whole reason HFR was put forward was because we've failed to have any political support for HSR for decades. Ironically, authoritarian regimes tend to build HSR as prestige projects and can do so, for much cheaper.
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