Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[lio45]

Exactly, I was going to point out the Libs 1) still greatly benefit from FPTP and 2) know that FPTP is their only possible path to eventually getting power back some day.

(#2 also applies to the PQ…)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Oh no, don't disagree at all with this.

But the Parti Conservateur sentiment is not (as) regional but still large, and it's not represented at all.

That's what I am saying.

My reply was kinda intended for Kilgore Trout

For the record, I’m currently posting this from both Greater Montreal and solid CAQ territory, it’s a bit misleading to just look at the island.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

My reply was kinda intended for Kilgore Trout

For the record, I’m currently posting this from both Greater Montreal and solid CAQ territory, it’s a bit misleading to just look at the island.

Pretty sure the CAQ is the number one party in the Montréal CMA.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

I’m not sure QS membership would be keen on that. After all, there’s a reason they aren’t part of the PQ in the first place. Merging with Option nationale was one thing but the PQ has so much baggage.

Sure, but sometimes that reason isn’t important enough to keep staying in the way of having a shot at electoral success.

There was a reason Reform people weren’t part of the Federal Tories, until they all realized it made no sense to continue to divide like-minded voters under our FPTP system.

Etc.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Just kick Alberta and Quebec out of Canada, both seem to despise the idea of Canada anyway

Loving Canada (in the way you seem to think it should be) was not part of the deal Québec signed up for.

[lio45]

Bcaseyraptor still lives in 2018… absolutely nothing has changed since then.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Bcaseyraptor still lives in 2018… absolutely nothing has changed since then.

He or she doesn't realize that in terms of who has a realistic chance of forming a government in the foreseeable future, the CAQ is probably the best friend Canada has is in Quebec.

(As based on what I am reading in the tea leaves, if the CAQ collapses in the face of someone else, it won't be the PLQ which is likely to be behind all of the other parties that are on one's screen tonight. That's what happens when only 6-9% of francophones support you in an 80-85% francophone province.)

[davee930]

I feel compelled to apologize for all my Alberta friends that hate Quebec. It's true and I've always hated it. We're not all like that.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Liberal vote at 14% is the lowest in the history of the party.

Previous lowest was in 2018 and was 25%.

That's even lower than the Ontario Liberal Party that got 19.57% in 2018 and 23.85% in 2022. And the OLP still doesn't have official party status.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

He or she doesn't realize that in terms of who has a realistic chance of forming a government in the foreseeable future, the CAQ is probably the best friend Canada has is in Quebec.

(As based on what I am reading in the tea leaves, if the CAQ collapses in the face of someone else, it won't be the PLQ which is likely to be behind all of the other parties that are on one's screen tonight. That's what happens when only 6-9% of francophones support you in an 80-85% francophone province.)

All polls showed that the PQ was by far the most popular second choice for Quebecers. That's why I'm prediction a PQ/QS merger. They would immediately get official party status if that happens. The only thing that may be against the two parties is the focus on sovereignty as support for it isn't very high right now. Maybe an economic recession could change that but who knows and that's getting too far ahead with predictions. The CAQ right now has a balance on issues that obviously works and Acajack is right about is being the best party for friendly relations within Canada. What will be interesting is to see what Legault thinks of Pierre Poilievre and where the CPC is going.

[Al Ski]

FPTP has to go.

My problem with Legault is that I generally support 75% of his agenda yet I vehemently oppose 25% of his agenda.

I always vote QS even though I'm not a sovereigntist, I'm more a I don't give a fuckist.

I actually spoke to Gabriel N-D and I said 'either tone down or drop the sovereignty rhetoric and I think you have the winning formula'.

But he didn't back down and yet I still voted for them so..

I appreciated the honesty

Politics are complicated

I'm just so happy that the Liberal/PQ stranglehold has ended. 40 wasted years.

[Al Ski]

Originally Posted by Loco101

All polls showed that the PQ was by far the most popular second choice for Quebecers. That's why I'm prediction a PQ/QS merger. They would immediately get official party status if that happens. The only thing that may be against the two parties is the focus on sovereignty as support for it isn't very high right now. Maybe an economic recession could change that but who knows and that's getting too far ahead with predictions. The CAQ right now has a balance on issues that obviously works and Acajack is right about is being the best party for friendly relations within Canada. What will be interesting is to see what Legault thinks of Pierre Poilievre and where the CPC is going.

QS will never attach themselves to the falling star that is the PQ, that has already been floated and QS said no.

I always vote QS bit I don't understand why they pursue the sovereignty issue - there's absolutely no appetite for it that I have seen.

We voted QS in my riding and we're absolutely not a sovereigntist neighbourhood.

Most people vote for QS for their progressive cred.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

Viewed from Europe, I wonder what New Brisavoine thinks of this trade-off. We here tend to be obsessed by the unfairness aspect, so we exaggerate the cons and minimize the pros (grass being always greener in the neighbor's yard) of our system.

How long would a coalition last, if the four non-CAQ parties each had their ~15% of Parliament? It would likely make the typical Italian government look stable

I think first past the post is too extreme, but a purely proportional system is too extreme too. The best would be the French system, i.e. a 2-round election in constituencies. That way if CAQ and PQ come 1st and 2nd in a constituency, with QS 3rd, there's a 2nd round and QS voters can vote for the PQ candidate in the 2nd round, and vice versa. It works also for CAQ and PCQ.

It's always been bizarre to me that Anglophone countries still haven't discovered that 2-round elections exist. As if they hadn't discovered the wheel yet. Also strange that Québec still votes on a weekday and not on Sunday as in Europe, and then laments the low turnout... You're not a US state, so why keep on voting on a week day??

[Al Ski]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I think first past the post is too extreme, but a purely proportional system is too extreme too. The best would be the French system, i.e. a 2-round election in constituencies. That way if CAQ and PQ come 1st and 2nd in a constituency, with QS 3rd, there's a 2nd round and QS voters can vote for the PQ candidate in the 2nd round, and vice versa. It works also for CAQ and PCQ.

It's always been bizarre to me that Anglophone countries still haven't discovered that 2-round elections exist. As if they hadn't discovered the wheel yet. Also strange that Québec still votes on a weekday and not on Sunday as in Europe, and then laments the low turnout... You're not a US state, so why keep on voting on a week day??

Proportional is not extreme at all, it's used with great success in many countries.

Canada, despite it's much heralded 'DIVERSITY!!!' doesn't seem to value any lessons that can be gleaned from said diversity.

We just do the same stupid shit whilst celebrating ethnic restaurants.

Bravo, Canada.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Montreal = the Canada part of Quebec in the same way Edmonton = the Canada part of Alberta

And Calgary is the US part?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I think first past the post is too extreme, but a purely proportional system is too extreme too. The best would be the French system, i.e. a 2-round election in constituencies. That way if CAQ and PQ come 1st and 2nd in a constituency, with QS 3rd, there's a 2nd round and QS voters can vote for the PQ candidate in the 2nd round, and vice versa. It works also for CAQ and PCQ.

It's always been bizarre to me that Anglophone countries still haven't discovered that 2-round elections exist. As if they hadn't discovered the wheel yet. Also strange that Québec still votes on a weekday and not on Sunday as in Europe, and then laments the low turnout... You're not a US state, so why keep on voting on a week day??

I do like the idea of having runoff election or even ranked ballots. And I do know that Louisiana has runoffs for pretty much everything. I think Georgia does as well but maybe not for presidential elections.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Al Ski

We voted QS in my riding and we're absolutely not a sovereigntist neighbourhood.

Most people vote for QS for their progressive cred.

Your "progressive" agenda only ever has a chance to be enforced in an independent Québec. In Canada it will always be capitalism-as-usual.

[Al Ski]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

And Calgary is the US part?

Alberta aligns most closely to American values.

Toronto is our most American city.

I hope that helps!

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Also strange that Québec still votes on a weekday and not on Sunday as in Europe, and then laments the low turnout... You're not a US state, so why keep on voting on a week day??

A few years ago (I think it was during the Charest years but i could be wrong), there was the idea to put the election on a sunday. All parties seemed to agree with that until the Liberal party noticed that many of their most motivated voters were retired and they had no problem voting on a monday, so moving the election on a sunday would help the other parties more than the Liberals. The Liberals opposed the idea and that was the end of it...

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Just kick Alberta and Quebec out of Canada, both seem to despise the idea of Canada anyway

It depends what your idea of Canada is...