Winnipeg | Downtown | Portage Place | Redevelopment | U/C

[thurmas]

CTV mentioned this week when portage place opened in 1987 it had 150 stores. Today the mall only has 30 stores a 20% occupancy rate oof!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by thurmas

CTV mentioned this week when portage place opened in 1987 it had 150 stores. Today the mall only has 30 stores a 20% occupancy rate oof!

West Broadway Tenants Committee calls for converting Portage Place to a community centre:

WBTC and others call for Portage Place mall to be converted into community centre

As capital and corporate Canada continue to abandon downtown Winnipeg, we will soon lead the nation in large-scale community centres in former places of commerce.

Canadian Pacific ---> Neeginan Centre
CIBC ---> Millennium Centre
BMO ---> MMF
Hudson's Bay Co. ---> SCO
Peterson Investment ---> WBTC???

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by esquire

West Broadway Tenants Committee calls for converting Portage Place to a community centre:

WBTC and others call for Portage Place mall to be converted into community centre

As capital and corporate Canada continue to abandon downtown Winnipeg, we will soon lead the nation in large-scale community centres in former places of commerce.

Canadian Pacific ---> Neeginan Centre
CIBC ---> Millennium Centre
BMO ---> MMF
Hudson's Bay Co. ---> SCO
Peterson Investment ---> WBTC???

Downtown is not a place looking to attract business and people with disposable income. Portage Place should be torn down if it only has 20% occupancy rate and most of those are struggling that are still there.

[zalf]

Originally Posted by esquire

West Broadway Tenants Committee calls for converting Portage Place to a community centre:

WBTC and others call for Portage Place mall to be converted into community centre

As capital and corporate Canada continue to abandon downtown Winnipeg, we will soon lead the nation in large-scale community centres in former places of commerce.

Canadian Pacific ---> Neeginan Centre
CIBC ---> Millennium Centre
BMO ---> MMF
Hudson's Bay Co. ---> SCO
Peterson Investment ---> WBTC???

I disagree with at least parts of this. BMO didn't abandon Winnipeg, they moved across the street. MMF bought it on the open market.

HBC did leave, but it's disingenuous to call the SCO development a mere community centre. It will be a mixed use building with something like 200 apartments.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by esquire

West Broadway Tenants Committee calls for converting Portage Place to a community centre:

WBTC and others call for Portage Place mall to be converted into community centre

This is a very bad idea. I hope there's no momentum here.

[WinCitySparky]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

This is a very bad idea. I hope there's no momentum here.

Totally. Gtfo with this stuff already. It needs to be carved up and made into for-profit mixed use, period.

[Luisito]

Why did the Toronto developer pull out of the project? Would have been nice to see those residential towers go up but I understand if they pulled out over the demands being made on them to provide a drop in center and community bathrooms. That is really not the responsibilty of the private sector.

I got some heat the last time i commented about this place but it really is a mess. There have been serious assualts in around portage place. Not to mention women are routinely harrased by some of the people using it as a "gathering space".

[zalf]

Originally Posted by Luisito

Why did the Toronto developer pull out of the project?

The causation is known only to Starlight, but the correlation is the beginning of the pandemic.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by zalf

The causation is known only to Starlight, but the correlation is the beginning of the pandemic.

Yeah, if the project was tenuous before, the pandemic must have really thrown it off the rails. Unfortunate timing, but alas.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, if the project was tenuous before, the pandemic must have really thrown it off the rails. Unfortunate timing, but alas.

Didn't they go back to the feds begging for more money and concessions as well? And kept threatening to pull the plug if they didn't meet their ridiculous demands for a private for-profit project?

[zalf]

What a lovely time to ask a question I've had about Tax Increment Financing that I've had for a while now.

How are TIFs actually implemented in Winnipeg? I've heard two versions:

Version 1 is that the City agrees to only tax a portion of the new value of a development. So if a property has a value of $1 million, and a developer eligible for a TIF builds something worth $10 million, the City will agree to only tax, say, 50% of the incremental value for some time period. So the actual tax paid would be as though the property were worth $5.5 million (the original $1M of value + 50% of the incremental $9M) until the deal expires.

Version 2 is that the new development pays its full tax bill on the new value of the property, but the City agrees to spend the proceeds on improving the immediate area.

Which is correct? Both? Neither?

[trueviking]

Developer doesn’t pay tax on the assessed value increase for a predetermined period of time.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by zalf

HBC did leave, but it's disingenuous to call the SCO development a mere community centre. It will be a mixed use building with something like 200 apartments.

300 apartments (equivalent to a typical 35 storey tower). 2 major restaurants. 15,000 sf of retail. Daycare for 100 kids. Large Pharmacy and Medical clinic. 40,000 sf of office space. Museum the size of the Inuit Gallery.

Definitely not a community centre.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by zalf

What a lovely time to ask a question I've had about Tax Increment Financing that I've had for a while now.

How are TIFs actually implemented in Winnipeg? I've heard two versions:

Version 1 is that the City agrees to only tax a portion of the new value of a development. So if a property has a value of $1 million, and a developer eligible for a TIF builds something worth $10 million, the City will agree to only tax, say, 50% of the incremental value for some time period. So the actual tax paid would be as though the property were worth $5.5 million (the original $1M of value + 50% of the incremental $9M) until the deal expires.

Version 2 is that the new development pays its full tax bill on the new value of the property, but the City agrees to spend the proceeds on improving the immediate area.

Which is correct? Both? Neither?

Both.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3667563

[esquire]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Developer doesn’t pay tax on the assessed value increase for a predetermined period of time.

As I recall, it was originally pitched as the other alternative when TIFs entered the conversation in Winnipeg around 20-25 years ago... i.e., the incremental revenue would be reinvested directly into the area. It was meant to lift distressed neighbourhoods like Selkirk Ave/William Whyte by encouraging investment on the basis that it would generate funds that would be used to improve the area through infrastructure improvements, programs and services, etc.

Somewhere along the way it became a tax break for developers, though.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by zalf

The causation is known only to Starlight, but the correlation is the beginning of the pandemic.

They didn't get the government $$ they wanted.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by zalf

I disagree with at least parts of this. BMO didn't abandon Winnipeg, they moved across the street. MMF bought it on the open market.

HBC did leave, but it's disingenuous to call the SCO development a mere community centre. It will be a mixed use building with something like 200 apartments.

287 residential units or more

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by trueviking

300 apartments (equivalent to a typical 35 storey tower). 2 major restaurants. 15,000 sf of retail. Daycare for 100 kids. Large Pharmacy and Medical clinic. 40,000 sf of office space. Museum the size of the Inuit Gallery.

Definitely not a community centre.

Do you honestly think any of this will happen ??? Seriously.

It's still boarded up and nothing has been done. And it's going to stay that way.

Look at that wonderful expensive disaster on Main and Higgins that's now surrounded by chainlink fence and boarded up and it's roof in even worse shape. But hey it's got a fancy community shitter beside it.....

Fact is if these cheifs cannot keep that building in shape the do you really think the Bay will be anything different. Sure they may get it shiney for a decade at best. Portage Place and the Bay will look like they did once again in the early 80's. Especially PP. It's reverting back to what that stretch once looked like. A dump. But now it's will expand across the street.


The best use of the bay would have been housing for students and more university expansion for Inuit and Aboriginal and the Rest of Us.

[wags_in_the_peg]

100% disagree, i think it will happen and it will be wonderfull

100% agree the state of the Thunderbird house is a disgrace

[post_man]

Originally Posted by trueviking

300 apartments (equivalent to a typical 35 storey tower). 2 major restaurants. 15,000 sf of retail. Daycare for 100 kids. Large Pharmacy and Medical clinic. 40,000 sf of office space. Museum the size of the Inuit Gallery.

Definitely not a community centre.

Is 130 million a realistic budget to complete this in the space of a few years?