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  #51021  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 4:19 PM
thegoatman thegoatman is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
there is too much retail space in this city, without question.

but the retail on western further north is indeed utilized, but still not fully.

I would love to see any example of any strip of retail in this city that is fully utilized right now. from the high end (mich ave) to the lower end (western ave) its all the same.
Not 100%, but the southport corridor is damn near built out and has made a full recovery.

https://southportcorridorchicago.com...ver-from-2020/
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  #51022  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 5:35 PM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
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North side retail enclaves are exceptions. pedestrian shopping areas will always do well. The higher speed thoroughfares are different. They may do fine with fast food, contracting businesses and cheap office space, but aren’t going to command high enough rents to be worth the effort unless it’s close to a rail station. I’m OK with a lot of the stuff going up on Ashland where it’s slightly setback with a raised first floor, abundant landscaping, and fenestration instead of blank walls or vacant retail space.
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  #51023  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 5:49 PM
thegoatman thegoatman is offline
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Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
North side retail enclaves are exceptions. pedestrian shopping areas will always do well. The higher speed thoroughfares are different. They may do fine with fast food, contracting businesses and cheap office space, but aren’t going to command high enough rents to be worth the effort unless it’s close to a rail station. I’m OK with a lot of the stuff going up on Ashland where it’s slightly setback with a raised first floor, abundant landscaping, and fenestration instead of blank walls or vacant retail space.
53rd st in Hyde Park on the southside is also almost built out also. It's like having walkable, vibrant streets attract retail tenants, unlike mini stroad highways such as Western, Cicero, and Ashland
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  #51024  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 6:11 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
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Originally Posted by thegoatman View Post
It's like having walkable, vibrant streets attract retail tenants, unlike mini stroad highways such as Western, Cicero, and Ashland
what's interesting to note is that north of Irving, Ashland has always been almost entirely residential, and that's mostly because clark runs so close to it for that stretch of the northside and serves as the main retail street for the area precisely because clark is so much more pleasantly scaled to be such.

you can observe a similar phenomenon over in my neck of the woods in lincoln square where lincoln and western come close together. lincoln is the FAR more vibrant and active retail street while western languishes much more on a relative basis.

out in the neighborhoods, the best retail streets tend not to be the big giant auto-sewer stroads, unsurprisingly. those smaller-scaled angle streets are hugely important.
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  #51025  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 6:43 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Some level of vacancy is probably ideal though, no? (Not saying we're at that level, just that full occupancy is not necessarily desirable).
Of course - it's just like employment or in consulting. The last thing you want is someone looking to hire a bunch of people for new work, and there's nobody available. There's a reason why most economists will agree that anything under 3% or 3.5% unemployment rate isn't actually efficient and isn't actually optimal. Now imagine you want to open up a store somewhere and there's basically no space for you, and then you and everyone else in your situation have to wait like 6+ months for anything to become available. Mass vacancy is bad but having some vacancy is not a bad thing.
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  #51026  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2022, 7:39 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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The former Jerry Colangelo Center/Italian-American Sports Hall of Fame at 1431 W Taylor St is being converted into a boutique hotel with 35 hotel rooms and ground floor retail space. Building permit was issued a few weeks ago for it. Apparently it's from "Neighborhood Hotel" which has a location in Lincoln Park and also Grand Beach, MI

An article about it:
https://gazettechicago.com/2022/03/o...borhood-hotel/


According to their website, it should open Spring/Summer 2023. Hopefully they can get a nice italian restaurant/cafe/bakery/whatever on the ground floor:
https://www.theneighborhoodhotel.com
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  #51027  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 1:06 AM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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A bunch of new SFH were recently permitted on vacant lots in North Lawndale near the Kedzie Pink Line stop and Douglas Park. So far 18 in total permitted - 5 of them are north of Ogden but the other 13 are near the pink line stop. This is from Lawndale Christian Development Corporation who wants to build 1000 new homes total in that area.
I saw that as well. Are these going to be prefab modular or traditional construction? There's a company in North Lawndale thats been ramping up production of these (and they partnered with LC on the original prototypes they put up last year)

https://kinexxmodularconstruction.co...u-1623-s-avers
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  #51028  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
The former Jerry Colangelo Center/Italian-American Sports Hall of Fame at 1431 W Taylor St is being converted into a boutique hotel with 35 hotel rooms and ground floor retail space. Building permit was issued a few weeks ago for it. Apparently it's from "Neighborhood Hotel" which has a location in Lincoln Park and also Grand Beach, MI

An article about it:
https://gazettechicago.com/2022/03/o...borhood-hotel/


According to their website, it should open Spring/Summer 2023. Hopefully they can get a nice italian restaurant/cafe/bakery/whatever on the ground floor:
https://www.theneighborhoodhotel.com
I totally missed this. Glad I got to check of the museum before it closed. It had definitely seen better days, but was cool nonetheless.
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  #51029  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 4:05 PM
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Originally Posted by thegoatman View Post
53rd st in Hyde Park on the southside is also almost built out also. It's like having walkable, vibrant streets +a large concentration of disposable income and a general sense of safety and security attract retail tenants, unlike mini stroad highways such as Western, Cicero, and Ashland
Bold addition mine. With those two factors in place, there would likely be a lot less vacancy on several stretches of 71st and 75th.

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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
what's interesting to note is that north of Irving, Ashland has always been almost entirely residential, and that's mostly because clark runs so close to it for that stretch of the northside and serves as the main retail street for the area precisely because clark is so much more pleasantly scaled to be such.
Relatively minor nitpick or addition - the historic cause of the change in development pattern there is almost certainly the routing of the #9 streetcar, which had it's layover/turnaround at roughly the same spot as the current northern terminus of the #9 bus. North of Cortland, the Ashland streetcar route branched to run on both Ashland and Southport up to Irving Park. Of course, it was probably never extended further north because of how close Ashland gets to Clark, as you say.

Also, much of Ashland was widened in the 1930s as part of making it a continuous North-South crosstown arterial with e.g. the bridges over the river around elston, Clybourn, Webster, etc. The widening can be seen pretty plainly in some spots like through West Town/Ukie Village based on some of the chopped parcels and buildings that got facadectomied. I'm not sure of the exact impacts of the widenings in the northern stretch.
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  #51030  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 4:32 PM
thegoatman thegoatman is offline
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I don't understand why the southside alderman are so car centric minded and less about walkability. Most of the black southside alderman were the ones who voted against the TOD proposal (along with a list of other bungalow neighborhood alderman). Do they not know the most desirable and sought out neighborhoods in the city are those that are dense and walkable? Yet they oppose this?? Make it make sense
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  #51031  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 4:46 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by thegoatman View Post
I don't understand why the southside alderman are so car centric minded and less about walkability. Most of the black southside alderman were the ones who voted against the TOD proposal (along with a list of other bungalow neighborhood alderman). Do they not know the most desirable and sought out neighborhoods in the city are those that are dense and walkable? Yet they oppose this?? Make it make sense
I would venture a guess that "car-centric" is what the voters in those areas want. Also why those same alderman don't like the speed cameras giving an automatic ticket at 5 mph over the speed limit.
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  #51032  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 9:06 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Not 100%, but the southport corridor is damn near built out and has made a full recovery.

https://southportcorridorchicago.com...ver-from-2020/
true. southport and oak street are doing great. small scale & high end seems to be a winning formula these days - though I dont agree that damen ave (at north ave) is doing okay right now as the article states. it looks about 50% vacant if counting storefronts that are leased vs. not.
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  #51033  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 9:42 PM
thegoatman thegoatman is offline
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Originally Posted by west-town-brad View Post
true. southport and oak street are doing great. small scale & high end seems to be a winning formula these days - though I dont agree that damen ave (at north ave) is doing okay right now as the article states. it looks about 50% vacant if counting storefronts that are leased vs. not.
Wonder why Oak St. is doing great and booming meanwhile michigan ave is still languishing behind?
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  #51034  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 11:04 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Wonder why Oak St. is doing great and booming meanwhile michigan ave is still languishing behind?
I wouldn't say Michigan Ave is languishing. I would say it's adapting to a new world. Last few times i've been down there, it seemed pretty busy to me. Also, I think people in the city overall would rather spend an afternoon in a local neighborhood with bars, pubs, and coffee shops over Michigan Ave.
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  #51035  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 11:06 PM
thegoatman thegoatman is offline
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I wouldn't say Michigan Ave is languishing. I would say it's adapting to a new world. Last few times i've been down there, it seemed pretty busy to me. Also, I think people in the city overall would rather spend an afternoon in a local neighborhood with bars, pubs, and coffee shops over Michigan Ave.
was talking more retail wise
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  #51036  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 11:50 PM
galleyfox galleyfox is offline
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Originally Posted by thegoatman View Post
Wonder why Oak St. is doing great and booming meanwhile michigan ave is still languishing behind?
It’s the department store format.

A lot of really old brands that you can find in any mall in the U.S., and spaces too large for new boutique stores to fit comfortably in.

Michigan Ave. has more than enough foot traffic to be doing great if any of the products were remotely interesting to actually go inside.

The eternal lines outside the Starbucks tell us exactly what the real demand is.

These property owners need to bite the bullet and redevelop the ground floors. Or even replace entire buildings.
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  #51037  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2022, 11:58 PM
thegoatman thegoatman is offline
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Originally Posted by galleyfox View Post
It’s the department store format.

A lot of really old brands that you can find in any mall in the U.S., and spaces too large for new boutique stores to fit comfortably in.

Michigan Ave. has more than enough foot traffic to be doing great if any of the products were remotely interesting to actually go inside.

The eternal lines outside the Starbucks tell us exactly what the real demand is.

These property owners need to bite the bullet and redevelop the ground floors. Or even replace entire buildings.
oh wow didn't think about that. This make sense. Alot of the spaces on Michigan ave have huge footprints. Meanwhile Oak st. has alot of nice sized boutique sized footprints
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  #51038  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2022, 1:36 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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oh wow didn't think about that. This make sense. Alot of the spaces on Michigan ave have huge footprints. Meanwhile Oak st. has alot of nice sized boutique sized footprints
Yes - Armitage, Southport, Oak St, etc is doing well. I think we'll see Milwaukee Ave come up some more soon too.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1115...o-IL/15422730/

I mean look at a place like this. 1100 sq ft for $36 a square foot per year comes out to $3300/mo in rent. So if you are a boutique selling $300 shirts/pants then just to cover rent you need to sell just 11 of them a month. No idea what it costs to keep the lights on and staff people but if on average each person who buys something spends $300, then you just need about 3 people per day to take in $30,000/month revenue. After your rent that's $26,700 a month or $320,400 per year after rent but before paying for any utilities (if applicable..), wages, etc etc.
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  #51039  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2022, 12:29 PM
galleyfox galleyfox is offline
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oh wow didn't think about that. This make sense. Alot of the spaces on Michigan ave have huge footprints. Meanwhile Oak st. has a lot of nice sized boutique sized footprints
Speak of the Devil


Is it time to tear down that Mag Mile building?
With a 29% vacancy rate on North Michigan Avenue, a wrecking ball might help some landlords on the shopping strip salvage their investment.
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/comm...ords-teardowns

Quote:
The North Michigan Avenue market might also benefit by shrinking. The district has too much retail space, especially in buildings with multiple floors, Kirsch says. Retailers today are a lot choosier, favoring smaller, more-visible spaces on the ground floor. Space on the second floor or above is much harder to lease than it was.

“There’s almost zero demand for multilevel flagship retail,” Kirsch says.
A list of low rise retail with potential for redevelopment.

840 N Michigan - Empty (except Verizon)
830 N Michigan - Empty
717 N Michigan - 4/5 Empty (except It’Sugar)

663-669 N Michigan (Nike)
600 N Michigan - Leased ( Under Armour, Ann Taylor, Levi’s)
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  #51040  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2022, 2:28 PM
mark0 mark0 is offline
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I don't understand why the southside alderman are so car centric minded and less about walkability. Most of the black southside alderman were the ones who voted against the TOD proposal (along with a list of other bungalow neighborhood alderman). Do they not know the most desirable and sought out neighborhoods in the city are those that are dense and walkable? Yet they oppose this?? Make it make sense
Desirable by whom? The priorities of the southside alderman are very different. They want to see stabilization, making the southside arterials look like anywhere USA is a sign of success. Coffee shops and vegan bakeries are not high priority. Having a branch bank, grocery store and retail with ample free parking for working class people is.
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