Ottawa Highway Bypass Corridor/Ring Road

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Ottawa must be the only big city in Canada with only 1 highway that services (or crosses) the city. IMO the 174 and 416 don't really count as they don't really service intracity travel much - more long-distance travel.

I guess it depends on your definition of a Highway and your definition of a city, but in Vancouver, Hwy 1 (the TCH) passes through the outskirts of the city limits, and Hwy 99 (to Seattle, thus more analogous to the 416) turns into city streets once it crosses the Fraser into Vancouver. Then again Vancouver is held up as an example by urban planners of what a city can be like if you don't build highways through the city.

Maybe if we build a bypass we can convert the central stretch of the Queensway into an urban boulevard.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I mean Toronto arguably has 1 highway for many people as most refuse to pay for the 407.

Don't forget Toronto has the QEW/Gardiner/DVP as well. I used that route a lot more than the 401 when I lived there.

[Harley613]

I have been running ring road scenarios on Google Earth for 20 years now and this seems like a great option. It would piss a LOT of Nimby's off, but a ring road is an absolute inevitability as the city keeps exploding in population. It WILL happen. The lynchpin of any sensible ring road scenario always ends up being David Bartlett Park in Manotick. I can't conceive a sensible route without putting a highway through that park. If you don't you have to go all the way around Manotick and Greely and the whole thing makes less sense. Would love to discuss alternatives in this thread.

[Dengler Avenue]

It looks good as long as we can address the fragile geology (clay?) around Cumberland. We’ll need to do that for \174/ as well (aka widening that and building freeway-to-freeway interchange in constraint space and in clay).

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It looks good as long as we can address the fragile geology (clay?) around Cumberland.

The northern terminus of the 416 was all Leda Clay, but we pulled it off! It can be done!

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Harley613

The northern terminus of the 416 was all Leda Clay, but we pulled it off! It can be done!

I just realized that 174 from Petrie Island entrance to your proposed ring road has no properties on either side. Okay, it may be doable. There’s simply no way around fighting NIMBY-ism and geological challenges.

[Harley613]

The 174 interchange could be done with minimal expropriation at this time, but the clock is ticking. Logical sensible ring road options are disappearing every year due to the shortsightedness of this city's leadership. This city won't stop growing but we never plan ahead.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Harley613

The 174 interchange could be done with minimal expropriation at this time, but the clock is ticking. Logical sensible ring road options are disappearing every year due to the shortsightedness of this city's leadership. This city won't stop growing but we never plan ahead.

Maybe let MTO know. I’m serious. Time to expand that MTO corridor permit control zone.

[Sauvanto]

Guys guys guys, I have an idea....... How about we take the insane amount of funds this project would require, and put it into transforming abandoned or disused rail to create regional transit hmm?
How about all these roads expansion go towards dedicated busways planned for 20 years instead, so we can get local rapid transit in the suburbs and actually get an OCtranspo ridership higher than 1 per hour?
The idea that a ring-road or any highway widening reduces traffic and congestion is a myth, and it's been proven over and over, I can't believe it's still not widespread; induced-demand, countless papers and studies prove it!
**End of rant**

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Sauvanto

Guys guys guys, I have an idea....... How about we take the insane amount of funds this project would require, and put it into transforming abandoned or disused rail to create regional transit hmm?
How about all these roads expansion go towards dedicated busways planned for 20 years instead, so we can get local rapid transit in the suburbs and actually get an OCtranspo ridership higher than 1 per hour?
The idea that a ring-road or any highway widening reduces traffic and congestion is a myth, and it's been proven over and over, I can't believe it's still not widespread; induced-demand, countless papers and studies prove it!
**End of rant**

Should the MTO plan a corridor and save the land from development - YES.

Should the MTO build it in the next 50 years - NO

Should the MTO direct all highway widening / new highway funds to more transit in Ottawa - YES

[Harley613]

I love the pie in the sky idea that this city can avoid building a ring road by building more transit. It's cute. Let's see how that works when the city has 3 million people and everyone is in self driving electric cars.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I love the pie in the sky idea that this city can avoid building a ring road by building more transit. It's cute. Let's see how that works when the city has 3 million people and everyone is in self driving electric cars.

That’s not even the main concern. The main concern is how to transport goods on these public-transit corridors.
On that note though, is it just me, or are there fewer transport trucks on 416 and 417 (compared to 401 through Toronto)? I’ve never seen a line of trucks on either freeway (though I’ve seen a line of 3 on the 17 around Renfrew), for example. Sometimes I even wonder how people in Ottawa get their goods since freight trains aren’t great there either.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I love the pie in the sky idea that this city can avoid building a ring road by building more transit. It's cute. Let's see how that works when the city has 3 million people and everyone is in self driving electric cars.

O, I think it is inevitable, but I don't think it is a priority. Improved transit will not solve all transportation issues (it will not take freight traffic of the roads, for example), but it is not pie in the sky to think that improved transit will delay the need for massively expensive road projects. There is loads of evidence showing that that is the case.

I would not take issue with the MTO PLANNING for a bypass corridor. I would take more issue the MTO planning for further widening of the existing 417 corridor - which more directly competes with urban transit.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

That’s not even the main concern. The main concern is how to transport goods on these public-transit corridors.
On that note though, is it just me, or are there fewer transport trucks on 416 and 417 (compared to 401 through Toronto)? I’ve never seen a line of trucks on either freeway (though I’ve seen a line of 3 on the 17 around Renfrew), for example. Sometimes I even wonder how people in Ottawa get their goods since freight trains aren’t great there either.

I think a lot of our goods come in by truck to warehouses on the outskirts and are then moved by smaller vehicles within the city. Not many goods would be transported through Ottawa that are not destined for Ottawa since we are off the main corridor, the 401.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

O, I think it is inevitable, but I don't think it is a priority. Improved transit will not solve all transportation issues (it will not take freight traffic of the roads, for example), but it is not pie in the sky to think that improved transit will delay the need for massively expensive road projects. There is loads of evidence showing that that is the case.

I would not take issue with the MTO PLANNING for a bypass corridor. I would take more issue the MTO planning for further widening of the existing 417 corridor - which more directly competes with urban transit.

My big issue is the lack of a cohesive plan for the inevitable ring road, a right of way should be established NOW before it's too late. I hope the 417 never gets widened and a ring road is crucial for that dream to come true.

Edit: just saw this headline literally five seconds after this post
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/province-plans-to-widen-five-kilometre-stretch-of-highway-417-1.5870268

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Edit: just saw this headline literally five seconds after this post
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/province-plans-to-widen-five-kilometre-stretch-of-highway-417-1.5870268

Ya, THIS is what is unacceptable. Sure there is consistent congestion on this section of the Highway 417, but widening it just undermines ridership on the new Confederation Line which directly parallels the highway here.

[Dengler Avenue]

Sadly that’s MTO for y’all: beefing up existing corridor instead of planning alternative ones…

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I love the pie in the sky idea that this city can avoid building a ring road by building more transit. It's cute. Let's see how that works when the city has 3 million people and everyone is in self driving electric cars.

I mean, why not? Current truck traffic between Montreal and ... maybe Sudbury? definitely does not justify an Ottawa bypass. We could just as easily spend that money on building regional transit connections and serving them with car-shares or local busses.

[RuralCitizen]

I fear a giant ring road around the suburbs will just exacerbate and induce gigantic sprawl. New neighborhoods will be build around each new exits along this new ring highway. Reaching both ends of the city easily through this alternative route, it will be massively attractive for people looking for a place to live with easy commute.

All the properties along this alignment will increase in value and big developers will start hogging all of them.

This will further increase our dependence to cars and eventually will end up clogged. If the point of a ring road is to avoid going through all the traffic downtown because you are trying to reach the other side of the city, this ring road should have only 3 exits.
1-the west connection
2-the south connection
3-the East connection

It should avoid recreating the conditions that are problematic on our current road system. For every additional exits along the ring, you'll will add traffic and recreate the same conditions seen on the urban 417. We can't just build the same thing over and over thinking the problem will solve itself.

[Harley613]

Am I the only one that thinks road connectivity will remain as important, if not more important, in our near future when cars are all electric and self driving?