Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[someone123]

Originally Posted by thewave46

While I do support additional language training and live in a region where that is actually pretty useful, I'm also somewhat skeptical of it fostering camaraderie much. There's a certain je ne sais quoi about 'living a culture' that knowing a language won't simply imbue. That's been one of the big surprises of the various English-language countries I've visited.

I think the effective way to make Canada more bilingual would be to have French language media become popular in English Canada (with subtitles, not dubbing). And schools could match up kids in different provinces. These days it is possible to pair up French Immersion kids with kids in Quebec and have them split their time speaking the 2 languages and teaching each other in a natural and casual way. No idea if such things are done. Of course the media aspect is harder now than it was 20 years ago and it wasn't done well back then. We can debate if this would be good or bad.

Another aspect is to have better transportation within Canada, and this is a win-win for everyone. If there were cheaper flights from Vancouver to Montreal, or high speed rail between Toronto and Montreal, or a semi-reasonable rail or highway path between Montreal and the Maritimes, they would not feel quite as far apart.

I don't think drilling more verb tenses into the skulls of reluctant high school kids is going to help much.

[Truenorth00]

Everything you suggest here addresses demand. It doesn't address the lack of supply. Most of the high schools in Ontario would not have the ability to teach every student French all the way through.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by lio45

Exactly, and it's why my English is better than your French; it's not because you're lazier or less intelligent.

That's debatable given that I've been called 'tête carrée' by my father-in-law more than a couple of times.

I digress on the subject though.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think the effective way to make Canada more bilingual would be to have French language media become popular in English Canada (with subtitles, not dubbing)..

Now, that's a tall order!

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Now, that's a tall order!

Weirdly enough with Netflix not as tall as one would expect.

Just gotta package it right and they won't even know.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think the effective way to make Canada more bilingual would be to have French language media become popular in English Canada (with subtitles, not dubbing). And schools could match up kids in different provinces. These days it is possible to pair up French Immersion kids with kids in Quebec and have them split their time speaking the 2 languages and teaching each other in a natural and casual way. No idea if such things are done. Of course the media aspect is harder now than it was 20 years ago and it wasn't done well back then. We can debate if this would be good or bad.

Another aspect is to have better transportation within Canada, and this is a win-win for everyone. If there were cheaper flights from Vancouver to Montreal, or high speed rail between Toronto and Montreal, or a semi-reasonable rail or highway path between Montreal and the Maritimes, they would not feel quite as far apart.

I don't think drilling more verb tenses into the skulls of reluctant high school kids is going to help much.

Agreed.

Quebec easily produces the best media in the country. CBC (the English channel) and others should be promoting that with subtitles. And I've read that Canadians are increasingly becoming comfortable with subtitles, driven in part by newcomers from multilingual parts of the world as well as greater access to subtitled shows and movies on streaming services.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think the effective way to make Canada more bilingual would be to have French language media become popular in English Canada (with subtitles, not dubbing).

Originally Posted by thewave46

Weirdly enough with Netflix not as tall as one would expect.

Can't really dictate things like this.

One of the most popular Netflix series was Emily in Paris - an American moving to France to work in that city. That makes sense, right? Maybe this will increase the appeal of Paris, France, and French in English-speaking territories! Except the whole series is essentially American exceptionalism; Emily refuses to learn French and decides that French people are wrong and weird in everything they do.

Lupin did more for French and France, I guess, but these things don't really have a tangible impact in really making people want to learn the language. English will dominate.

Canadian programming should probably default be subtitled in both official languages similar to how a lot of Asian programs feature prominent subbing in multiple languages, but I doubt we have the workforce to make this available. re: French-language training, NB routinely recruits sub-standard teachers from Quebec because Canada's only bilingual province lacks French-language teachers. I doubt CBC can hire a multitude of people to ensure every program is subbed correctly.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Weirdly enough with Netflix not as tall as one would expect.

Just gotta package it right and they won't even know.

Netflix actually added a bunch of selections from Quebec this summer. Including even some really recent stuff that was still in theatres a month or two ago.

I recommend people start with this!

https://www.netflix.com/ca-fr/title/81406326

Though as JHikka said, I am not sure how much this will move the needle.

I went to university in English in Ontario and there was a clique of classmates of mine that would go watch Quebec movies (like those of Denys Arcand) in addition to other foreign (sic) movies.

I've also spent enough time abroad to have met Danes who just loved La Grande Séduction (Seducing Dr. Lewis) or Spaniards whose favourite movie was Léolo, or even Japanese people who were fans of Diane Dufresne.

These people have always existed and always will, but it's unclear to me whether a sea-change in attitudes from the wider population is really possible.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I long ago realized that the grave concern ROCers (and to some degree Anglo-Montrealers) seem to have about Quebec's (in)ability to speak English isn't about wanting the best for us socio-economically and to pull us out of poverty , but rather to spare Vern and Myrtle from Lower Sackville the displeasure of running into people who don't speak their language on their long drive to visit their cousins in Whitby.

All Verne and Myrtle have to do is take a gas and pee break in Edmundston. You can make it all the way through Quebec quite easily on a single tank of gas. Easy-peasy......

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

All Verne and Myrtle have to do is take a gas and pee break in Edmundston. You can make it all the way through Quebec quite easily on a single tank of gas. Easy-peasy......

I know. Though Edmundston is almost totally "French" (sic) too. Though for some reason it feels "safer"!

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I know. Though Edmundston is almost totally "French" (sic) too. Though for some reason it feels "safer"!

It’s mental. For example, if I have a hard time ordering in French in the McD by N.B.-2, I can fall back on English. Montmagny? Not so much.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It’s mental. For example, if I have a hard time ordering in French in the McD by N.B.-2, I can fall back on English. Montmagny? Not so much.

I've actually done that! In fact, I think it might have been Montmagny, and it was a Mickie D's

I tried to place my order in French, but apparently not to the satisfaction of the clerk at the counter, so I tried again in slow methodical English. It caused quite a sensation amongst patrons sitting at nearby tables. For a few seconds, I was the center of attention in the restaurant. Everyone was looking at me with considerable interest as if I had somehow just landed in a spaceship from Mars.

[JHikka]

Oh please. I've ordered fast food in Montmagny in English with little fuss or commotion. It's not difficult or a big deal.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Oh please. I've ordered fast food in Montmagny in English with little fuss or commotion. It's not difficult or a big deal.

My French is tres mal, and I probably had a different clerk than you.

Perhaps my attempts at ordering a "gros Mac" didn't directly translate to a "Big Mac"

[esquire]

I would be legit surprised if any fast food joint on the TCH through Quebec couldn't handle an order in English. "big mac combo" would probably be comprehensible to even the most unilingual employee.

[Fischbob]

My experience has been that most highway-oriented places along the A-20 are quite used to taking orders in English.

Often I'll try to place my order in French first, and picking up on my accent, I'll get an English response from the cashier.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

I would be legit surprised if any fast food joint on the TCH through Quebec couldn't handle an order in English. "big mac combo" would probably be comprehensible to even the most unilingual employee.

Given that most McDo's have kiosks these days you don't even need to talk to anyone. Order on the kiosk in English, grab your receipt, wait for your number to come up.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

My French is tres mal, and I probably had a different clerk than you.

Perhaps my attempts at ordering a "gros Mac" didn't directly translate to a "Big Mac"

That’s odd.
The other day I met up with @le_calmar for poutine in Gatineau. The lady understood me when I said “une grosse poutine Foubrac avec de saucisse octoberfest”.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

I would be legit surprised if any fast food joint on the TCH through Quebec couldn't handle an order in English. "big mac combo" would probably be comprehensible to even the most unilingual employee.

I am pretty sure that in a place like Cap-St-Ignace if you can speak any English at all even in the toughest economic times you probably have a guaranteed job at one of these places.

That said, I do think that the reality once you venture even a few hundred metres from the TCH service areas is probably hit and miss, and somewhere in between MonctonRad's extra-terrestrial experience and JHikka's "no problem everyone speaks English everywhere in the world!".

Heck even in Gatineau I occasionally witness awkward interactions between unilingual anglophones and service staff with very limited English. Often it's not really a total lack of knowledge, and just a specific word or an expression that someone doesn't know. I sometimes step in to help in those cases, and even occasionally act as an interpreter if needed.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

My experience has been that most highway-oriented places along the A-20 are quite used to taking orders in English.

Often I'll try to place my order in French first, and picking up on my accent, I'll get an English response from the cashier.

This wasn't a highway rest stop. I wandered into town. That could make a difference.