Regional and Intercity Bus\Rail Transportation

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You would think that Rockland's population could support an hourly all day bus shuttle once the Confederation Line reaches Trim Road, with extra buses during peak periods.

Not under the current business model of revenues covering costs. OCTranspo can run mostly-empty all day busses because they have a huge subsidy to play with.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The number of cars those rural busses take off the roads is so negligible that I doubt it would make a difference.

I have little sympathy for people who move out of Ottawa to avoid paying for services like transit and then winge that Ottawa residents aren’t paying for their services.

Exactly. These folks want to have a lot of space for cheap, low taxes, the advantage of economic opportunities that the city offers, and then insists that they are the ones getting screwed over by not having Ottawa provide services. What?

The only sad part here is that we've failed to price roads accordingly. Give them a break on sprawl.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You would think that Rockland's population could support an hourly all day bus shuttle once the Confederation Line reaches Trim Road, with extra buses during peak periods.

Once Stage 2 opens, I think they'll be okay. They could probably pull off half hourly service all day. And maybe better during peak.

Originally Posted by acottawa

Not under the current business model of revenues covering costs. OCTranspo can run mostly-empty all day busses because they have a huge subsidy to play with.

It'll be interesting to see what CRT does after Stage 2. Do they make Trim a hub? Or do they continue to offer downtown express service at high cost?

Moving the transfer point to Trim would CRT cut the route length substantially, allowing higher frequencies for the same cost. If they run to Trim after Stage 2, it's a lot cheaper and a lot faster. 1 bus would be sufficient for hourly service. 2 buses would allow them to provide 45 min frequencies with several stop comfortably. 3 buses would allow 30 min service with plenty of stops.

[waterloowarrior]

the United Counties of Prescott-Russell is looking at introducing a public transit service..looks like the focus is for seniors, medical appointments etc.
http://www.en.prescott-russell.on.ca/news/what_s_new/intermunicipal_transportation_network

L’Orignal, February 26, 2019 – The Economic Development and Tourism Department of the United Counties of Prescott and Russell (UCPR) and its partner, Carefor Health and Community Services, have received confirmation of the $2 million in funding from the Government of Ontario, through the Community Transportation Grant Program.

This financial support will allow for the implementation of the Prescott and Russell Intermunicipal Transportation Network. The UCPR and its partner had received confirmation of the financial support in March 2018, but have since been waiting for the official agreement.

“Despite this minor delay, we are convinced and optimistic about the positive impact this project will have on the development of the community and the region’s economy, and we are excited to launch this project,” stated Carole Lavigne, Director of Economic Development and Tourism of the UCPR. “This transportation network promises to change the landscape of Prescott and Russell for the better, and for the benefit of all its residents.”

The provided support will enable residents of the eight municipalities in Prescott and Russell to benefit from a new public transit service, which will allow them to travel easily across the region in order to access various essential services, all the while reducing barriers to transportation mobility in rural areas and encouraging economic growth.

“More often than not, it is a challenge for vulnerable people living in rural areas to travel around and access the services they need, such as medical appointments or shopping,” explained Alice Grenon, Director of Carefor Community Health Services.

Of the $2 million awarded, $1.5 million shall be used to develop an intermunicipal transportation service while the other $500,000 will be used to purchase an adapted minivan and the services of a driver for Carefor, to better serve its clients.

Moving forward, the Economic Development and Tourism Department, in collaboration with the consulting firm Axion, will begin identifying the needs of the population in terms of community transportation by conducting public consultations as well as surveys. This planning work is essential to the implementation of an effective public transit system.

[rocketphish]

Transit-on-demand model might solve some problems for Ottawa's rural areas
At least two municipalities in Ontario are taking a creative, cost-effective approach to delivering transportation services to dispersed rural populations.

Randall Denley
Updated: April 9, 2019

Ottawa is spending more than $4.6 billion to build light rail in urban and suburban parts of the city, but people in the city’s vast rural areas get little or no service. Up to a point, that’s reasonable. There just aren’t enough potential riders for the city to send big buses into rural areas, or even to provide more than token service to major villages.

But what if there were a creative way to meet the demand that exists, without huge expenditures from the city? As it turns out, at least two municipalities in Ontario are taking a creative, cost-effective approach to delivering transit to dispersed rural populations.

The village of Carp is one of Ottawa’s transit-starved rural areas. Residents get Para Transpo service and a shopping bus once a week. When the city sorted out rural transit demands after amalgamation, that was thought to be all that Carp required. Since then, the village has grown and the population mix has changed. Lack of transit is a common local complaint. There is also demand for transit service from businesses in the Carp Road corridor, which runs from Highway 417 most of the way to Carp. There are more than 300 businesses there, employing about 4,000 people, but their workers have no transit connection.

The pressure to do something led to a public meeting in Carp last week, organized by the Huntley Community Association. Those in attendance heard about how Belleville and the town of Innisfil, near Barrie, are taking a radically different approach to transit. Those two communities have ideas worth considering in Ottawa

Belleville has put itself on the leading edge of transit service in Ontario with its “transit on demand” program. The small city realized there was a problem with lack of transit for shift workers in its industrial park on the northern edge of Belleville. It began a night service that offered a bus connecting the industrial park to the rest of the city. There was some ridership, but then Belleville came across a better idea.

The city started working with the University of Toronto, a transit think-tank and a tech start-up that was developing a program to connect buses with riders, on demand. In effect, the program tailors routes to meet demand from customers who sign in to say when they will be at a stop and where they are going. In just six months, ridership has nearly quadrupled.

Perhaps more relevant to Ottawa’s rural villages, Innisfil has developed a partnership with Uber that entirely replaces conventional transit. The town has a population of 36,000 spread over a large area. It priced basic, minimal bus service and was told it would cost $600,000 a year. Then the town came up with a better approach.

It got into a partnership with Uber to subsidize rides instead of creating a transit operation. The town pays between $4 to $6 for rides to popular locations such as the rec centre and the library, about half the fare. For rides to other locations, it will pay a $5 subsidy. The ridership is now about 7,500 people a month, with an annual subsidy of $500,000. The town’s chief administrative officer says people love the service.

Both of those approaches turn the transit power structure on its head. With conventional transit, buses run on fixed routes at fixed times, based on the best guess as to demand. In Innisfil and Barrie, transit is delivered according to direct demand from riders. In the case of the Uber partnership, money is only spent when service is delivered. No more costly, empty bus runs.

Rural transit in Ottawa is a service that is overdue for serious re-examination and improvement. Finding cost-effective ways to connect rural residents to the city’s main transit lines can and should be done. Belleville and Innisfil are leading the way.

Will Ottawa be as nimble as those two much smaller communities? If not, why not?

Randall Denley is an Ottawa commentator and novelist. Contact him at [email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/column...ve-some-problems-for-ottawas-rural-areas

[CityTech]

Carp has no transit service because they're in Rural Transit Area B. In Rural Transit Area A, the city provides peak period transit service, but in Rural Transit Area B, it does not. Rural Transit Area A pays more for the transit levy than Area B in exchange (but still less than the Urban Transit Area).

Rural Transit Area A consists of the rural portions of Cumberland, Goulbourn, as well as Manotick. West Carleton along with Rideau and Osgoode outside of Manotick are Area B.

If Carp wants to pay Rural Transit A taxes, they can get a peak period bus.

Personally I think OC Transpo should also offer a similar deal to areas outside the city; they can opt into paying Rural Transit Area A levies in exchange for OC Transpo service. The Rockland service could be absorbed into OC Transpo that way.

[TransitZilla]

The Uber model in Inisfil is garbage, but the Belleville late night service is very interesting, and could have applications in Ottawa in rural areas and even in the suburbs on evenings and weekends when there is less demand.

The on-demand service in Belleville has apparently tripled ridership for their after 9:30pm bus service and they are carrying about 30 pax/hr.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

The Uber model in Inisfil is garbage, but the Belleville late night service is very interesting, and could have applications in Ottawa in rural areas and even in the suburbs on evenings and weekends when there is less demand.

The on-demand service in Belleville has apparently tripled ridership for their after 9:30pm bus service and they are carrying about 30 pax/hr.

I can certainly see the on-demand service working well in heavily populated areas at times when demand is low (like suburbs). I am not sure if it would work well for rural communities though as their population isn't large enough to generate sufficient demand to warrant having a bus with driver on standby.

Originally Posted by CityTech

Carp has no transit service because they're in Rural Transit Area B. In Rural Transit Area A, the city provides peak period transit service, but in Rural Transit Area B, it does not. Rural Transit Area A pays more for the transit levy than Area B in exchange (but still less than the Urban Transit Area).

Rural Transit Area A consists of the rural portions of Cumberland, Goulbourn, as well as Manotick. West Carleton along with Rideau and Osgoode outside of Manotick are Area B.

If Carp wants to pay Rural Transit A taxes, they can get a peak period bus.

As for the "Rural Transit Area A" service, it is fine for those who want to commute downtown, but isn't useful for much else. And is that a behaviour we are wanting to encourage for our rural communities? Those communicates' primary purpose should be to support the farmers.

I don't see anything wrong with keeping an open mind to alternative ways of providing local transit services to those communities, especially for those who aren't using them as a big bedroom and working downtown. Granted the extra costs involved should be born by those who live there.

Having said that, I don't think the Uber model would fly in Ottawa, as the Transit union would object to contracting out transit services to a non-unionized company.

Originally Posted by CityTech

Personally I think OC Transpo should also offer a similar deal to areas outside the city; they can opt into paying Rural Transit Area A levies in exchange for OC Transpo service. The Rockland service could be absorbed into OC Transpo that way.

The problem is the cost of providing service is proportional to the distance travelled so OC Transpo would have to receive a transfer payment even higher than the "Rural Transit Area A" tax for towns outside of the city. I don't think OC Transpo can be cost competitive with a private bus company unless the service is subsidized by Ottawa taxpayers. Inside Ottawa, we don't have any choice as union contracts restrict outsourcing.

[J.OT13]

The Uber model just seems like "taxis" driving around in rural areas picking up a few fares. Not very environmentally conscious. And based on the Innisfil model, it would only cost 20% less than buses, and that probably doesn't take into account lost fare revenue for the (potential) bus service.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The Uber model just seems like "taxis" driving around in rural areas picking up a few fares. Not very environmentally conscious. And based on the Innisfil model, it would only cost 20% less than buses, and that probably doesn't take into account lost fare revenue for the (potential) bus service.

I think the idea is that they were supposed to have different people sharing vehicles but their stats show about 70% of trips are solo.

[acottawa]

If there is support to change their transit zone and pay different property taxes then I think that would be a reasonable request.

I am not really sure what problem these subsidized uber fares are supposed to solve.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://ottawasun.com/news/local-news/ru...l&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1573945384

North Augusta route will run its last service on December 20 as the only driver needs to keep care of his health issue and as the route’s not profitable.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://ottawasun.com/news/local-news/ru...l&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1573945384

North Augusta route will run its last service on December 20 as the only driver needs to keep care of his health issue and as the route’s not profitable.

From that article:

Urban transit is often subsidized by the province — such as the LRT — while rural areas must rely on private businesses that need to make profits, and that’s not fair, she said.

I wish GO Transit would partner with rural communities in Eastern Ontario. Whether they use private or GO buses, there should be some provincial funding. Regardless, the responsibility shouldn't fall on the City of Ottawa.

[lrt's friend]

Exterior towns are growing and congestion is getting worse. There needs to be a coherent regional transit network that is not on the verge of closure at every moment.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by roger1818

From that article:
I wish GO Transit would partner with rural communities in Eastern Ontario. Whether they use private or GO buses, there should be some provincial funding. Regardless, the responsibility shouldn't fall on the City of Ottawa.

Actually they could and probably should get involved.

GO stands for Government of Ontario. It's not GH for Golden Horseshoe, after all.

[Dengler Avenue]

IIRC Metrolinx was somehow involved in the possible restoration of Northland Rail. Then it would definitely make sense for it to partner with OC Transpo for rural transit. Plus, both agencies use Presto Card.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Actually they could and probably should get involved.

GO stands for Government of Ontario. It's not GH for Golden Horseshoe, after all.

I agree that GO should be expanded to Eastern Ontario but it probably needs change to the Metrolinx legislation... I think right now their mandate is only for the GTHA.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Actually they could and probably should get involved.

GO stands for Government of Ontario. It's not GH for Golden Horseshoe, after all.

Golden 'Orseshoe?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by roger1818

My preference would be to integrate the bus terminal with the train station to allow train/bus transfers. VIA currently sublets the western third of the station to other businesses (I gather it was originally office space for CN and CP employees prior to VIA taking over passenger service), so that could become the bus terminal's concourse area. Doing some quick measurements, Parking lot P1 seems plenty large enough to have the same number of bus bays as Central Station (maybe even a few more), and is wide enough to have the buses turn around.

Another advantage of this approach is it would open up an entrance closer to the O-Train station. Potentially they could dig a tunnel connecting the stations.

The issue of course is that this would eliminate a significant number of parking spaces at the train station. This could be resolved by either building a parking garage over P3 or by backfilling part or all of the centre of the loop (capping the O-train line if backfilling all).

Having said all this, I am not convinced that Greyhound will ever resume domestic service in Canada (they are likely using the pandemic as an excuse to pull out completely and only provide international service). In this post,Urban_Sky provided this link showing their Canadian schedules prior to the pandemic. Looking at it, they had the following service remaining to/from Ottawa (there were other routes that didn't serve Ottawa):

• Ottawa-Sudbury
• Ottawa-Toronto (via Peterborough)
• Ottawa-Toronto (via Belleville)
• Ottawa-Kingston (via Smiths Falls)
• Ottawa-Kingston (via Brockville)
• Ottawa-Montreal (express)
• Ottawa-Montreal (north shore)
• Ottawa-Montreal (south shore)
• Ottawa-Cornwall

I would suspect that the service to Sudbury would be picked up by Ontario Northland (brining their service to 2 busses a day) and most of the rest would be picked up by megabus, since they had previously taken over the Toronto-Montreal service.

I don’t think Greyhound ever had Toronto-Montreal, Megabus took over the Trentway Wager service.

I am not sure what advantage bus-train transfers offer, they both basically follow the same routes. Maybe connecting from Northern Ontario to Montreal, but if there was a lot of demand for that they would offer a through service.

To me St Laurent makes the most sense. There is already an oversized local station that is outside the fare pay zone, easy, access to taxi and Uber and the mall offers things to do while waiting.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t think Greyhound ever had Toronto-Montreal, Megabus took over the Trentway Wager service.
.

Voyageur-Colonial did Montreal-Toronto, I am pretty sure.