[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[ColSJ]

MP Wayne Long just posted to social media tomorrow he will be announcing a "significant announcement" for the uptown peninsula on water and sewage. All three levels of government are involved.

https://twitter.com/WayneLongSJ/status/1369367101606133768?s=20

[ColSJ]

Fencing up at The Wellington

[cdnguys]

CBC news reporting the King St project will be 12 stories - better than I expected.

Most exciting part is it will be designed by Murdock Boyd and will be red brick and sandstone.

90 apartments, grocery store (hopefully), offices, 2 floors underground parking

Shovels on ground by summer and well under way by fall

With the incline of King St, this building will sit very tall in comparison to the cluster of buildings at foot of King St, Market Sq

[magee_b]

Quotes from the article:

Plans are not finalized, but a major 12-storey retail, office and residential development at the top of King Street in Saint John is being put together by developer Percy Wilbur as a replacement for the abandoned former Woolworth's store he bought in November.

That's substantially larger than his original plans for the property.

Current plans call for two floors of underground parking and a main floor retail space that Wilbur is hoping will be a grocery store. Above that will be two levels of office space sitting underneath up to 90 residential units on nine upper floors, many with unobstructed panoramic views of the city.

Drawings of the King Street building have not been released publicly yet, but local architect Malcolm Boyd has been hired to design the structure. Wilbur promises it will fit in with the brick and sandstone facades used by other large buildings around King Square.

In January, to make room for his growing plans, Wilbur bought the building next door at 85 and 87 King St., currently home to the popular restaurant Taste of Egypt, and a local insurance broker.

Because engineering work on the old Woolworth's building showed it to be "unsalvageable," according to Wilbur, both buildings are to be torn down.

Restaurant owner Paula Radwan-Donovan said she already has plans to move to a new, larger location and she hopes to make an announcement about that later this week.

Link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-building-construction-1.5943290

[cdnguys]

This project, along with Wellington, $50 million initial Fundy Quay building and no doubt other projects to be announced - I think Saint John skyline will cross a threshold to put it in another league with Halifax (in a very small way). Uptown has become a very desirable place to live and the momentum is just starting.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

This project, along with Wellington, $50 million initial Fundy Quay building and no doubt other projects to be announced - I think Saint John skyline will cross a threshold to put it in another league with Halifax (in a very small way). Uptown has become a very desirable place to live and the momentum is just starting.

Agreed - this is the best news I have heard in a long time.....and glad to hear it's bigger than I thought and will hopefully house a grocery store - that will dovetail nicely with the City Market

[OliverD]

The presence of a grocery store would be a game changer for uptown SJ.

[adamuptownsj]

This rocks! Traditional materials, taller than expected, a proven local architect, and most importantly for me, a grocery store. They've got roughly 18,000 sqft at ground level, so that's less than half of the Golden Mile Sobey's but more than double the square footage of their urban concept stores.

Presumably the insurance company that shares a building with Taste of Egypt won't struggle to find space uptown either.

[darkharbour]

Still wishful thinking about the grocery store (because it relies on an outside partner finding Uptown's business case to be worthwhile), but the rest of this potential announcement and development timeline sounds great!

King Square is certainly going to feel different than when I used to live on Sydney St. overlooking it back just 3 or 4 years ago. I have always loved it, but now with a couple larger buildings bordering it, and the new SJTC work on the courthouse, the urban feel of the square will be that much nicer.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Still wishful thinking about the grocery store (because it relies on an outside partner finding Uptown's business case to be worthwhile), but the rest of this potential announcement and development timeline sounds great!

King Square is certainly going to feel different than when I used to live on Sydney St. overlooking it back just 3 or 4 years ago. I have always loved it, but now with a couple larger buildings bordering it, and the new SJTC work on the courthouse, the urban feel of the square will be that much nicer.

Agreed - but with all of the development of mid to high end residential and the booming housing market, I think the grocery store will happen - it's all about demand and I believe this development will be the tipping point.

[Sabien]

I recall some discussion last year regarding a grocery chain requiring a certain number of NEW apartment units built in the uptown to make it worth their while? I don't remember the details but I think it was somewhere around 200-250 units. And at that point we were already close to 200 new units. This King Street development would definitely put it over the top for new units. Not to mention the Wellington project now has fencing up and heavy equipment onsite. Lots of construction in the uptown this year!

[cdnguys]

I’m picturing more of an express grocery store - not a full service one. I’m wondering too if it will pull customers from Sam’s - customers make that extra 5 min walk to King’s Sq - that store is constant from opening to close.

Taste of Egypt occupies a large spot and owner said they are moving to an even larger space. Any guesses where they will end up? I’m wondering if it will be bottom level of the Telegraph. Another potential spot could be Dr. Rector’s building on corner of Canterbury and Grannan.

[MonctonRad]

Sounds exciting.

At 12 storeys, this project will have an impact similar to the recently approved St. Bernard Square in downtown Moncton. Perhaps even greater given the commercial podium and the proposal for a downtown grocery store.

There are lots of smaller urban format grocery stores in larger cities in Canada. It would be great if one of those moved east. Imagine a Farm Boy in uptown SJ.

I love how all three major cities in NB are undergoing downtown urban renaissances. It's about time!

[adamuptownsj]

Interesting rumour I heard. The owner of the stretch of Main from McDonald's to the old Legion has residential plans- 130 units or so. Presumably ground floor would be parking for them. Odd site since the back half of it is so steep.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by Sabien

I recall some discussion last year regarding a grocery chain requiring a certain number of NEW apartment units built in the uptown to make it worth their while? I don't remember the details but I think it was somewhere around 200-250 units. And at that point we were already close to 200 new units. This King Street development would definitely put it over the top for new units. Not to mention the Wellington project now has fencing up and heavy equipment onsite. Lots of construction in the uptown this year!

And let's not forget about all the lunch hour customers from the business community frequenting the deli department. I think a grocery store would do a great business here and be very successful. It would really be a great addition for the area.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Sounds exciting.

At 12 storeys, this project will have an impact similar to the recently approved St. Bernard Square in downtown Moncton. Perhaps even greater given the commercial podium and the proposal for a downtown grocery store.

There are lots of smaller urban format grocery stores in larger cities in Canada. It would be great if one of those moved east. Imagine a Farm Boy in uptown SJ.

I love how all three major cities in NB are undergoing downtown urban renaissances. It's about time!

Indeed!

Visually, 12 floors on the top of King Street is going to be even larger in impact, given the huge elevation rise of the hill it will add a lot more to the skyline than a building of similar height on the waterfront.

[JHikka]

Build quality > height, for this project, IMO. I know it's easier to focus on height over everything else but this project really, really, really needs to look good rather than simply being tall.

Originally Posted by cdnguys

I’m picturing more of an express grocery store - not a full service one.

Sobeys have been doing this format pretty well for the past few years in larger urban centres.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Imagine a Farm Boy in uptown SJ.

Imagine Maritimers complaining about Farm Boy prices.

Originally Posted by jonny_golden

And let's not forget about all the lunch hour customers from the business community frequenting the deli department. I think a grocery store would do a great business here and be very successful. It would really be a great addition for the area.

It's common (here, anyway) for smaller format grocery stores in urban areas to also have coffee stands inside. Longo's is one in particular that usually has a Starbucks inside. Something to consider.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Build quality > height, for this project, IMO. I know it's easier to focus on height over everything else but this project really, really, really needs to look good rather than simply being tall.


Sobeys have been doing this format pretty well for the past few years in larger urban centres.


Imagine Maritimers complaining about Farm Boy prices.


It's common (here, anyway) for smaller format grocery stores in urban areas to also have coffee stands inside. Longo's is one in particular that usually has a Starbucks inside. Something to consider.

Sight unseen, I'm confident with the choice of architect. Murdock Boyd are not only local, they're so local they would have to see this every day for the rest of their working lives- just above Tim's.

Brick and sandstone are promising. Glad it won't be modular panels.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Interesting rumour I heard. The owner of the stretch of Main from McDonald's to the old Legion has residential plans- 130 units or so. Presumably ground floor would be parking for them. Odd site since the back half of it is so steep.

Maybe Metcalfe St would be the main lobby area - steep incline may save them excavation costs.
A family member owns property on Metcalfe and they were approached to sell by this land owner a couple years ago

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Maybe Metcalfe St would be the main lobby area - steep incline may save them excavation costs.
A family member owns property on Metcalfe and they were approached to sell by this land owner a couple years ago

Yeah, there's a street right of way just east of McDonalds from Metcalf to Main, I could see that being used.

That McDonald's is a pain. Awkward drive-through that backs up into traffic, strange layout, etc.