CHICAGO | Highrise Projects & Construction, v7

[HomrQT]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

skyscraperpage.com forums in 30 years....

"this is a great example of the classic 2020's TOD design vernacular"

100%, soulless and modern is the relentless push, coupled with the pairing argument, "If you don't like it use your own money and build something different."

[marothisu]

Art is very subjective and subject to social norms, ultimately. These things come and go. Certain classical music and composers at the time were considered un godly. At various points in history, certain architectural styles are seen as acceptable or unacceptable.

In the next 30 years, we'll have various norms. In 2051 when a new proposal comes in, somebody who is 26 today (56 then) will complain how we aren't designing to some acceptable 2030 design standard that everyone sees as ubiquitous and totally normal.

Obviously the design is subjective and some might think its fine while others don't. Humans love to long for the past and certain feelings associated with them. There's a reason why some people might love completely gaudy or crap designs (or art, music, etc). It has more to do with the feeling for them. Someone growing up with all the modern homes in Chicago today might lament them being torn down in 60 years not because it has to do with the actual design but because of the feelings associated with it (childhood, growing up, various specific events, etc)

[Handro]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ I was in my late 30's then, went with some younger cousins.

Besides the great music and lighting, my 2 impressions were:

1. A haze of smoke. Everywhere (a lot of it was weed). I could barely see
2. WOW everyone is so young. Or maybe I'm old?

Lol yea, it was a real wake up call that I was officially aging out of the festival crowd. When I saw them in 2007 I was right there in the thick of it, when I saw them in 2015 I remember feeling very weird to be surrounded by nearly naked teenage girls.

Originally Posted by marothisu

Art is very subjective and subject to social norms, ultimately. These things come and go. Certain classical music and composers at the time were considered un godly. At various points in history, certain architectural styles are seen as acceptable or unacceptable.

In the next 30 years, we'll have various norms. In 2051 when a new proposal comes in, somebody who is 26 today (56 then) will complain how we aren't designing to some acceptable 2030 design standard that everyone sees as ubiquitous and totally normal.

Obviously the design is subjective and some might think its fine while others don't. Humans love to long for the past and certain feelings associated with them

That's true, but it's sometimes pretty easy to spot the things that will be quickly out of style. Shiplap walls and black painted brick come immediately to mind.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Handro

That's true, but it's sometimes pretty easy to spot the things that will be quickly out of style. Shiplap walls and black painted brick come immediately to mind.

Oh I agree, but from a "normal person" perspective, it's much more nuanced. People complaining about tearing down some big soulless box probably has nothing to do with the design. It most likely has to do with feelings and memories where those buildings are somehow involved directly or indirectly. Like I dont think the architecture where I grew up (my street) is good but I still wouldn't be happy even if whats replacing it was a far superior design. However, I wouldn't try and block it from happening.

[HomrQT]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Art is very subjective and subject to social norms, ultimately. These things come and go. Certain classical music and composers at the time were considered un godly. At various points in history, certain architectural styles are seen as acceptable or unacceptable.

In the next 30 years, we'll have various norms. In 2051 when a new proposal comes in, somebody who is 26 today (56 then) will complain how we aren't designing to some acceptable 2030 design standard that everyone sees as ubiquitous and totally normal.

Obviously the design is subjective and some might think its fine while others don't. Humans love to long for the past and certain feelings associated with them. There's a reason why some people might love completely gaudy or crap designs (or art, music, etc). It has more to do with the feeling for them. Someone growing up with all the modern homes in Chicago today might lament them being torn down in 60 years not because it has to do with the actual design but because of the feelings associated with it (childhood, growing up, various specific events, etc)

I disagree with some of this. Of course art is subjective. Of course people have their own personal preferences. Of course societal influences play a part on people's perspectives. But, there are absolutely some universal truths that will simply apply to the majority regardless of the above mentioned factors. Parisian style architecture will always be considered more beautiful to the majority than the common architecture found in Tokyo. The main problem I have with the argument you present is it now allows for shit architecture to squeeze in there because "hey, it's at the whim of these different societal elements and the times change etc". That's largely nonsense. There is objective criteria that constitutes "beautiful" architecture that the majority can agree with that is separate from things like personal preferences and nostalgia. The 2 major problems I believe in the implementation of soulless crap architecture are 1. developers who really just don't care, it's all about the dollars, and 2. uber snobby architectural students that believe the only appropriate way is change, everything must change, old is antiquated and boring and this weird insect inspired dome structure using crystalized porcelain is 12% more energy efficient and thus clearly the route that we should exercise and if you disagree you're just an uneducated moron.

[ChiPlanner]

Featuring a brick base and a metal-clad upper portion set back from the street, the new building includes 82 underground parking spots and more than 17,800 square feet of ground-floor retail space. An enclosed atrium topped by skylights would bridge the gap between the new and existing structures.

“I try to draw from the neighborhood,” explained New York-based architect Morris Adjmi at a virtual meeting hosted by Ald. Walter Burnett Jr. (27th) and the West Loop Community Organization. “One of the things that we do on all of our facades is create a sense of depth which help the buildings — although modern — feel more contextual and fit into the neighborhood.”

https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/02...s-unimpressed/

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by HomrQT

I disagree with some of this. Of course art is subjective. Of course people have their own personal preferences. Of course societal influences play a part on people's perspectives. But, there are absolutely some universal truths that will simply apply to the majority regardless of the above mentioned factors. Parisian style architecture will always be considered more beautiful to the majority than the common architecture found in Tokyo. The main problem I have with the argument you present is it now allows for shit architecture to squeeze in there because "hey, it's at the whim of these different societal elements and the times change etc". That's largely nonsense. There is objective criteria that constitutes "beautiful" architecture that the majority can agree with that is separate from things like personal preferences and nostalgia. The 2 major problems I believe in the implementation of soulless crap architecture are 1. developers who really just don't care, it's all about the dollars, and 2. uber snobby architectural students that believe the only appropriate way is change, everything must change, old is antiquated and boring and this weird insect inspired dome structure using crystalized porcelain is 12% more energy efficient and thus clearly the route that we should exercise and if you disagree you're just an uneducated moron.

While I don't disagree with you, I think the more important part is what I touched on last. People have a connection to places and no matter how bad something works, if they have a positive emotion associated with it, then a change might trigger a defense.

[k1052]

I really do love that Burnett is like "Yea, that's some nice feedback but you aren't the center of the universe and we're going do pretty much do this anyway thanks" almost every time in Fulton.

[SamInTheLoop]

I've got to say I like this design a lot. I hope Morris Adjmi doesn't change a thing. I love the austere, institutional feel that the resident in the article criticizes. I think this would actually add something to the design fabric of the neighborhood as opposed to more of the cheapened faux lofty brick old warehouse looking but really new office buildings with a tophat 3-5 stories of contemporary design that are far too numerous.

[SamInTheLoop]

Is this Brininstool + Lynch? I definitely sense notes of B + L (reminds me a lot of Catalyst but less glass) but an inferior, VE version. And Marquette has hired B + L for most of their city projects recently, so makes sense. Really a step down for them if it is. Other than that, obviously a fantastic boost to density in a great TOD location of course.

[WestTowner]

Originally Posted by k1052

I really do love that Burnett is like "Yea, that's some nice feedback but you aren't the center of the universe and we're going do pretty much do this anyway thanks" almost every time in Fulton.

I personally refer to him as 'Build it Burnett'. So long as he gets his, it'll get approved. Just look at 1440 W. Randolph. Originally hated it. He said partly due to the fact he didn't want residents to complain about music festivals. Then suddenly he approved it. Nothing changed that I saw, except his decision.

[SamInTheLoop]

^ Did something change in his campaign coffers?

[chicubs111]

Originally Posted by WestTowner

I personally refer to him as 'Build it Burnett'. So long as he gets his, it'll get approved. Just look at 1440 W. Randolph. Originally hated it. He said partly due to the fact he didn't want residents to complain about music festivals. Then suddenly he approved it. Nothing changed that I saw, except his decision.

We need Burnett to become 42 ward alderman and get Reilly out...

[RedCorsair87]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

I've got to say I like this design a lot. I hope Morris Adjmi doesn't change a thing. I love the austere, institutional feel that the resident in the article criticizes. I think this would actually add something to the design fabric of the neighborhood as opposed to more of the cheapened faux lofty brick old warehouse looking but really new office buildings with a tophat 3-5 stories of contemporary design that are far too numerous.

Agreed. Love me some Morris Adjmi in Chicago and would love to see more of their work in Chicago especially the West Loop. Hell- I would love to see more of their work in River North!

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by ChiPlanner

https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/02...s-unimpressed/

I love it. Perfect for Lake street and will look cool from the L.

[Chi-Sky21]

Look like really high ceilings.

[southoftheloop]

Yeah, looks fantastic. Could fit right into, say, Hamburg's new port district. Or Chicago's Fulton Market!

[Rizzo]

I think it does a good job picking up on the language of classic warehouse designs in the area. Prominent columns with recessed windows, a thin expression of the floorplate. It might be the color choice in the rendering that makes it look less like brick that appears harsh to the audience

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by Rizzo

I think it does a good job picking up on the language of classic warehouse designs in the area. Prominent columns with recessed windows, a thin expression of the floorplate. It might be the color choice in the rendering that makes it look less like brick that appears harsh to the audience

Much better than "let's make a fake warehouse and put a glass hat on it" trend.

I will say that I was hoping for a little more daring from Adjmi, but who knows how much the developer was pushing for VE while the city was demanding "contextualism."

[Tombstoner]

Very nice building with classy proportions. I'm not crazy about the "schoolhouse red" brick--something a bit less bright might age better.