Mobility Pricing

[s211]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Speaking of hospitals, note the congestion pricing puts VGH, St.Pauls and the Cancer Agency all within the paying zone bubble. A giant F-U to anyone having to undergo treatment, visit a sick loved one...

If you think about it, the protests that shut down the Broadway/Cambie area in 2019 were also a massive F-U to those trying to get to the hospital, so in a fashion the same message is being given by blindered civic ideologues.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Actually all you need to do is complete Reserves basic training to be eligible for the plate.

Really? You mean my stint in the Naval Reserve that paid for my education 40 years ago qualifies me for a veteran's plate?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Really? You mean my stint in the Naval Reserve that paid for my education 40 years ago qualifies me for a veteran's plate?

Hell yea brother!

https://www.icbc.com/vehicle-registration/licence-plates/Pages/Licence-plates-for-veterans.aspx

A member of the Canadian Armed Forces, Regular or Reserves, who successfully completed basic training

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Mobility pricing is dead in the water. The most reasonable pricing (new bridge tolls) was already wiped, no way something like this is coming in.

We'll see more transit and carbon taxes on gas, at a Translink & provincial level, that's about it IMO.

Let's be honest, 2019 transit was already jammed. You can't force too many more people on a Skytrain at rush hour.

I kind of like WSDT's approach to route tolling in the Seattle area. In some ways while their arterial routes are more developed than Vancouver (and they just dug a tunnel to replace their viaduct instead of the half-baked idea City Hall mothballed), with the exception of the SR520 bridge (which is technically twinned by the I-90 so non-paying drivers don't have to drive completely around the lake) any tolled routes also have non-toll lanes. Vehicles can still freely use almost any route however express lanes on the 405 for example are useable at any time at a distance-based premium and become free on weekends and holidays I believe with rates varying depending on the time of day.
At the same time I still like Singapore's contactless and generally paperless payment system where tolls can be automatically paid on rechargeable prepaid cards.

While Vancouver doesn't have the space to be widening roads for toll lanes (partly because of bike lanes or route restrictions) it might be more useable to adapt HOV lanes into combination lanes (HOV/EV usage exemptions, otherwise varying rates) or areas where curbside parking during rush hour goes away becomes temporary toll lanes, so the inner lanes are still free but the (arguably?) faster curb lanes are a distance premium to use between set hours, then they either go back to being free or regular curbside parking.

Edited: That may of been baked up over my lunch break but the point is tolling in such a small area is impractical.

[MIPS]

Aaaaaaand permission to look into planning (actual investment into the project) has been approved.

Vancouver City Council approves planning for road tolls into downtown and Central Broadway

After hearing from public speakers, Vancouver City Council approved city staff’s Climate Emergency Action Plan that outlined a number of measures, including the implementation of mobility pricing, such as road tolls, within the Metro Core.

The matter of road tolls dominated city council’s debate over the course of the evening, and culminated with a 6-4 vote in favour of the specific policy on mobility pricing. City council voted on over 30 items recommended by the CEAP report individually.

...

With the approval, city staff are directed to perform further study on mobility pricing within the Metro Core, defined as the area that includes all of the downtown Vancouver peninsula and the Central Broadway corridor — framed by 16th Avenue to the south, Burrard Street to the west, and Clark Drive to the east. Vehicles entering this area from the North Shore through the Lions Gate Bridge would be affected as well.

...

It was noted by Stewart last week that road tolls are outside the legal jurisdiction of the municipal government, and during this evening’s discussions it was mentioned that such a move would require the provincial government to amend the Vancouver Charter.

However, city manager Sadhu Johnston highlighted there are potential ways the municipal government could circumvent the approval required by the provincial level, but it would require further analysis on developing the alternative scheme.

...

Swanson, who put a spotlight on the youth support behind mobility pricing and other CEAP items, suggested there will be ample opportunities for the public to offer their input, including in the Fall 2022 municipal election.

“There’s lots of time for consultation, there’s lots of report backs in 2021. There will be more votes in 2022, and an election. So if people don’t like this plan, they have lots of chances to say so,” said Swanson.

-https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-road-tolls-mobility-pricing-metro-core-approved

This is so slimy. Just the idea of pushing ahead even if they have to play loophole acrobatics to get it built.

Edited: It's a side article but it looks like city-wide residential parking permits were also approved with pricing based on vehicle age/emissions, so if you are living paycheck to paycheck and have to commute by car you're financially screwed if these go through.

[Klazu]

I hope Vancouver will get rid of Swanson in 2022.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I hope Vancouver will get rid of Swanson in 2022.

Swanson, Boyle and Stewart all need to go.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Aaaaaaand permission to look into planning (actual investment into the project) has been approved.



This is so slimy. Just the idea of pushing ahead even if they have to play loophole acrobatics to get it built.

Edited: It's a side article but it looks like city-wide residential parking permits were also approved with pricing based on vehicle age/emissions, so if you are living paycheck to paycheck and have to commute by car you're financially screwed if these go through.

In the West End a low income household annual parking pass is $82 dollars...

That's less than $7 a month.

And there are no details of what the mobility pricing or the parking passes will look like when (If) the get implemented in 2025, but lots of communities around major transit have been actively calling for permit street parking. It'll likely be less that the dense West End rate.

[GenWhy?]

Outside Metro Core passes are about $40 a year. Which is close to where I think we'll end up in 2025 for a home's 1st pass.

[WarrenC12]

I'd love to see a hybrid parking model across the city. Passes for residents, and the ability for visitors to park and pay (based on location and congestion, timing). A true market based approach.

[urbanflight]

Originally Posted by MIPS

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-road-tolls-mobility-pricing-metro-core-approved

Great news!!

It will translate in crucial funding for rapid transit projects, fewer cars, less pollution, more space for public transit riders, pedestrians and cyclists.

[scottN]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Outside Metro Core passes are about $40 a year. Which is close to where I think we'll end up in 2025 for a home's 1st pass.

The city should only offer street parking passes to residents who own more vehicles than they have required parking spaces on their property. Maybe that will get people to actually park their cars in their garages instead of using them for storage, offices, studios or illegal rental suites.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by urbanflight

Great news!!

It will translate in crucial funding for rapid transit projects, fewer cars, less pollution, more space for public transit riders, pedestrians and cyclists.

You got a pretty distorted view on reality if you think that money is all going to be poured into transportation improvements.

Edited: $20 says 30% of annual toll income will vanish into non-transportation pet projects, the extension to UBC will still not get any more city-incentive funding and they'll still tear the viaducts down because "not enough money lol."

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by MIPS

You got a pretty distorted view on reality if you think that money is all going to be poured into transportation improvements.

Yes this will just be a sinkhole, all going into general revenue. More fancy office furniture and communications staff for Kennedy Stewart.

[svlt]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yes this will just be a sinkhole, all going into general revenue. More fancy office furniture and communications staff for Kennedy Stewart.

That's what I was thinking. This, and that new mandatory parking pass tax (https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-mandatory-residential-street-parking-permits-approved) would be better received and more reasonable if it directly translates into the manifestation of a much needed transit line (i.e. UBC line). But Stewart seems to be a very poor administrator of city finances, complaining publicly they're basically broke while buying Herman Miller chairs at MSRP for staff. I've no confidence he will be putting these funds to good use, but instead will be seemingly targeting lower income families with some of these policies, i.e. those that need vehicles to commute and will need them to be the more polluting, older variety due to costs.

Compounding a host of problems in his tenure irrelevant to this thread, I really think Vancouver should wisen up to how terrible of a mayor he is to this city and show him the door in 2022. Can't believe I think of Robertson with rose tinted glasses now, and really thought Sim would've been more capable in this role. Also the likes of Swanson, Boyle and most of the Greens including Carr (huge NIMBY single issue politician) should be gone in 2022, councilors who have taken their own personal pet project life missions over the role of representing the best interests of their taxpaying constituents.

I'm probably volunteering for a political party for the first time in my life in a couple of years to help facilitate this.

[urbanflight]

New ways to move

The transportation work in the Plan was easily its most controversial. Removing various advantages today associated with parking and studying (not implementing) a congestion pricing system for downtown Vancouver are massive cultural shifts for those of us who grew up perceiving that a car was an essential part of life and adulthood.
But, again, all of the talk of pricing and “mode shifting” is largely inaccessible and removes the genuine benefits of may yet move forward. Here’s what it really could mean for us:

"It’s not fair that fewer than half of Vancouverites’ trips are in cars and trucks, but we’re allocating 81% of public land to driving and storing them.

It’s not fair that walkers, cyclists, and transit users are paying for drivers’ parking, congestion, and road damage. #vanpoli"
https://twitter.com/abundanttransit/status/1323335017989206016

More space to enjoy our city — As transit advocates around the city were quick to remind us, cars use a lot of space in the city. The average car might use as much as 300x more public space every day than a person who walks. In tangible terms, that means fewer park areas, smaller sidewalks, and less space for those parklettes and streetside patios we all desperately need right now. If we “shift modes,” that is, if we’re able to help people (and yes, sometimes tell them) to walk, roll, bike, or take transit instead of driving on their own, then we make room for more of the stuff that we do like.

Quicker movement times — The big thing about congestion pricing (i.e., a toll system when you enter and leave certain areas of a city or region) is that it works. The case studies from London, Stockholm, Singapore and elsewhere show that people don’t like paying money to travel places. Sometimes they have to, and so they pay, but if they can save the money, and save the hassle, they will. What does this mean to the average resident? Fewer cars on the road, means it’s easier for those who need to get around.

Better transit — The details of the congestion pricing scheme will be developed over the next five years, but if an effective system does come together, it could massively transform transit in the region. People were very quick to get very angry about Vancouver “going it alone” on congestion pricing, and that the city might be “stealing” revenue from other cities.
Disingenuousness of these arguments aside, since Vancouver, yes, gains both the benefits of workers coming downtown, but also all of the congestion negatives, the real play here, as I think Kenneth Chan nailed, is that this money must go to growing our transit system, ideally at a regional level. Vancouver might be the first ‘pilot zone,’ but as the recommendations of the Independent Mobility Pricing Commission said a few years ago, with revenues of $170 million to $290 million per year for a regional system, we could significantly scale up our transit options across the region, and give more and more people the transit that they deserve.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'd love to see a hybrid parking model across the city. Passes for residents, and the ability for visitors to park and pay (based on location and congestion, timing). A true market based approach.

In quite a few cities around more suburban LRT or train/subway stops they have resident parking permits (not sure on cost, 1st is free in Edmonton maybe?) in a decent geographical area with a non-pass restriction to 2hrs during the work day. So after 5pm the "local only" parking restriction is lifted, and on weekends it doesn't apply. It's quite simple and works very well.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by urbanflight

New ways to move





"It’s not fair that fewer than half of Vancouverites’ trips are in cars and trucks, but we’re allocating 81% of public land to driving and storing them.

It’s not fair that walkers, cyclists, and transit users are paying for drivers’ parking, congestion, and road damage. #vanpoli"

Loaded with typical planner bafflegab. If you want a strong argument for municipal amalgamation look no further than idiotic statements Like "only half of Vancouverites trips are by car" to justify soaking everyone. They just ignore all those who drive downtown to spend money and enrich the COV through their work there, their spending etc.

[GenWhy?]

Mobility pricing is typically conducted during weekday rush hours.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by urbanflight

It’s not fair that walkers, cyclists, and transit users are paying for drivers’ parking, congestion, and road damage. #vanpoli"
https://twitter.com/abundanttransit/status/1323335017989206016

What a stupid thing for them to say. It's not like you are only one of those things and nothing else. Most people drive, take transit AND cycle from time to time. I do all four regularly and don't think any of these methods should be compromised for the benefit of another method. They all serve me differently depending on where I am going or what I am doing

Why some people deal only in black and white absolutes is beyond me. The ideological hate for cars is ridiculous especially as most cars will be low or no-omission by 2025.