Phoenix Development News (3)

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

Hey all - I don't post much original here (you're welcome) but just thought I'd mention that I was in Toronto this past weekend. Wow. I had heard it had more skyscrapers in North America with the exception of NYC but, damn, I really had no idea...super, super impressive skyline that was tall and vast. And at least six pockets of very talls within 5-10 miles of the downtown core. Incredible. The view from CN Tower was very similar to the view from Sears/Willis but, again, there just seemed to be more buildings. Anyway, I highly recommend a trip up there for anyone interested in seeing some spectacular towers. Unfortunately, made coming back to Phoenix very depressing in this regard. Here we are hoping for a 500+ footer someday and it looked like Toronto (with maybe 70% more in total metro pop.?) had at least 100 500+ towers....ugh.

Toronto is the economic and financial center of an entire country of close to 40 million people, an old industrial city with an ocean port (through the st. Lawrence).

Why would you even compare it to here?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by combusean

Are you talking about the one on Fillmore surrounded by the biomed campus or a different project? I wasn't aware of any plans to demolish that.

Also, what's up with the parallel lots on the north side of the tracks south of the Jackon St project. I can't find any easement or anything that prohibits their development.

Several years back there was plans to build a new holiday inn over around Grand and like 12th ave, it never went anywhere but we assumed if it got built the existing Holiday Inn would be vacated and sold for redevelopment.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Phxguy

Cooperstown defied the odds by surviving so long south of the arena before the WHD even became a destination for techies and now that area is parched for someplace to grab a pint after work. IMO Buchanan between 1st and 2nd St is just begging for a brewery or beer hall.

With the Duce, Urban Axes bar (opening shortly), various tech companies, Home2Suites hotel, and (hopefully) the Battery, there will be some increase of foot traffic in that area.

Im honestly shocked it lasted so long when downtown had nothing and then once downtown got popular shut down.

Strange.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

Hey all - I don't post much original here (you're welcome) but just thought I'd mention that I was in Toronto this past weekend. Wow. I had heard it had more skyscrapers in North America with the exception of NYC but, damn, I really had no idea...super, super impressive skyline that was tall and vast. And at least six pockets of very talls within 5-10 miles of the downtown core. Incredible. The view from CN Tower was very similar to the view from Sears/Willis but, again, there just seemed to be more buildings. Anyway, I highly recommend a trip up there for anyone interested in seeing some spectacular towers. Unfortunately, made coming back to Phoenix very depressing in this regard. Here we are hoping for a 500+ footer someday and it looked like Toronto (with maybe 70% more in total metro pop.?) had at least 100 500+ towers....ugh.

I had the same feeling coming back from Sao Paulo. First time there just overwhelmed with all the towers - easily more than NYC. Rooftop view from the hotel was spectacular. Then yeah, flying back home feels so much different. But then I see pictures of LA from the 70s/80s - and realize that PHX today is just now catching up to that era. Seems like we're about 40 years behind LA in a lot of ways in terms of development. Downtown LA still doesn't have a very large downtown considering the size of that city. Not close to NYC/Chicago, etc. But clearly grew up around the automobile - much like here.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by xymox

I had the same feeling coming back from Sao Paulo. First time there just overwhelmed with all the towers - easily more than NYC. Rooftop view from the hotel was spectacular. Then yeah, flying back home feels so much different. But then I see pictures of LA from the 70s/80s - and realize that PHX today is just now catching up to that era. Seems like we're about 40 years behind LA in a lot of ways in terms of development. Downtown LA still doesn't have a very large downtown considering the size of that city. Not close to NYC/Chicago, etc. But clearly grew up around the automobile - much like here.

We have virtually identical population to LA in 1950

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Toronto is the economic and financial center of an entire country of close to 40 million people, an old industrial city with an ocean port (through the st. Lawrence).

Why would you even compare it to here?

I'm not making any meaningful comparison other than the approximate similar metro populations...that's all man. Phoenix is Phoenix and we all know it is not Top 10 economic engine of the nation let alone a world-class city like Toronoto, etc. I'm just sharing the overwhelming reaction to seeing SO MANY TOWERS all over the city. And talls. Like Chicago but even more impressive really. Toronto flies under the radar a bit but it is truly a hi-rise mecca. That was the only point...

[biggus diggus]

Yes, Toronto is a big city. There are many much larger even, Phoenix will never be like that.

[exit2lef]

The main lesson I've learned from international travel is to giggle a little when anti-development activists in U.S. cities say that they don't want their communities to end up like Chicago or New York. If only they understood how low-profile and low-density our biggest cities are compared to worldwide norms.

As for Toronto, it's a great place to visit. It's main limitation, though, is that the central city and suburbs were unified under a single government several decades ago. That sounds great in theory since it should allow for regional cooperation and planning. The reality, however, is that it has led to elected officials with decidedly anti-urban agendas (e.g. the late mayor Rob Ford) winning due to their suburban popularity.

[biggus diggus]

Being an anti urban politician in Toronto would be like being an anti suburban politician here in Phoenix. You can try all you want but you're pushing a rock uphill.

[azsunsurfer]

When we make comparisons to our population of other metro's circa certain eras, we have to remember that technology is shaping development now in such a way that even with population increases we may not "develop" to resemble what a city with 10 million people looks like today if that makes sense.

[Obadno]

Anyone know if there is an updated version of the poor mans business reader the current addon no longer works : (

[CrestedSaguaro]

Back on to development news. True North to build a 7 story parking garage on top of the Grace Lutheran Church parking lot.

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/arts...oenix-11341953

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Anyone know if there is an updated version of the poor mans business reader the current addon no longer works : (

Just noticed this yesterday. Bummer.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Back on to development news. True North to build a 7 story parking garage on top of the Grace Lutheran Church parking lot.

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/arts...oenix-11341953

When you drive by the building at central and Roosevelt there is work being done inside right now and there are new murals all over so true north is moving I suppose they need to replace all the parking the interns to fill in with a garage

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Being an anti urban politician in Toronto would be like being an anti suburban politician here in Phoenix. You can try all you want but you're pushing a rock uphill.

Yes, my observations would lead me to believe that anti-urban policies are not really effective in Toronto and its surrounding satellite urban areas as the amount of condo tower construction going up along with the vast amounts already there is just crazy (in a good way).

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

Yes, my observations would lead me to believe that anti-urban policies are not really effective in Toronto and its surrounding satellite urban areas as the amount of condo tower construction going up along with the vast amounts already there is just crazy (in a good way).

It's more about transportation than zoning and development. Rob Ford is notorious for beginning his term with the pronouncement that the "war on the car" would end on his watch. He then oversaw the removal of bike lanes and opposed street car projects if they had the potential to diminish traffic capacity on city streets. His brother, Doug Ford, is now the premier (roughly equivalent to governor) of the province of Ontario and has similar rhetoric and priorities.

Here's some detail from the Globe & Mail:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ticle38299138/

[biggus diggus]

It's always interesting when people are only able to see the right now. I get it, you want to be comfortable in your car on the way to dinner, work or whatever it is. But failing to see that solo auto transportation isn't viable long term and trying to mute anyone who can see into the future is pretty amazing.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Back on to development news. True North to build a 7 story parking garage on top of the Grace Lutheran Church parking lot.

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/arts...oenix-11341953

Bummer indeed. Weren't they already proposing a massive parking garage just north of the Phoenix Center of the Arts parking lot as part of Hance Park revitalization?? Not a good look for Hance Park when it is being surrounded by parking garages on both sides...

Edit: After reviewing updated renderings, looks like they killed the parking garage and leaving surface parking lot as is

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Bummer indeed. Weren't they already proposing a massive parking garage just north of the Phoenix Center of the Arts parking lot as part of Hance Park revitalization?? Not a good look for Hance Park when it is being surrounded by parking garages on both sides...

Edit: After reviewing updated renderings, looks like they killed the parking garage and leaving surface parking lot as is

I feel like True North is just winging this as they go.

[biggus diggus]

This is the most accurate statement in the article:

"We can't just ignore the fact that people will be coming downtown in their cars."