CN and CP are public traded companies that have a combined market capitalization of $60 billion (over $3 billion by Bill Gates alone, but 100's of thousands of small investors as well). How would the investors interests be protected in the nationalization process? What would be the financial impact on their investments as a result of nationalization? What recourse would investors have as a result of nationalization?
I didn't say (in the original post) nationalise the companies, just the track. And I'm aware it is politically unlikely, but that does not mean it would not benefit the country.
Having railways be accessible to all operators is so obviously a good thing, I can't believe it is controversial, yet it is in Canada. Would you all advocate for a system where all our roadways were operated by two different companies, with the goods allowed on them being controlled only by them?
I didn't say (in the original post) nationalise the companies, just the track. And I'm aware it is politically unlikely, but that does not mean it would not benefit the country.
Having railways be accessible to all operators is so obviously a good thing, I can't believe it is controversial, yet it is in Canada. Would you all advocate for a system where all our roadways were operated by two different companies, with the goods allowed on them being controlled only by them?
In Europe, the passenger railways own the tracks, and freight companies pay to use them. That makes a lot more sense than the status quo.
Thanks for posting that, those damn European socialists, with their efficient, competitive market! The duopoly in Canada is much more in line with capitalist values!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki
The aims of the directive are to create a more efficient rail network by creating greater competition. To achieve this aim member states are required to ensure that organisations operating the infrastructure (track, signalling etc.), and those operating services (trains) are separate and run on a commercial basis. Additionally railway companies from all member states are allowed to run services on any other member states rail infrastructure, both for passenger transport and goods. The free competition provided by the mandate is optional for regional and urban passenger trains.
The directive was further clarified and extended by EU directive 2001/12 which initially allowed cross border freight operations on a network of tracks – to be called the Trans European Rail Freight Network a network which includes ports and freight terminals. The network on which traffic was allowed was to be extended to the whole European network. As a consequence of this new trans-national freight network an additional change was made to the original legislation which required train safety and operating standards to be set out clearly and administered by an organisation that did not run commercial services. The directive also required separate accounting of freight and passenger service revenues and costs.
To me the most sensible approach would be for the Federal Government to pay CN and CP to merge their operations between Toronto and Montreal and fund whatever upgrades are necessary for the freight line to meet capacity requirement. This would allow the other line to be used for passengers-only.
There really needs to be 'someone' responsible for that sort of thing though. A federal body, with actual money, that can make decisions that benefit all operators and Canada, something like Network Rail. The hodgepodge we have now of individual companies holding individual pieces of track and renting to each other is not desirable, and not going to be sustainable if we want to continue to improve the railways.
But yes, it's insane to have two railways operating parallel infrastructure. Looking at the lines along Lake Ontario, it looks like one is double track and one is single? I assume the one with VIA on it is double tracked and CN's line?
I hope not, as if they are taking Hyperloop seriously that would make the people working for Transport Canada complete morons.
Hyperloop is a f%$*ing joke started by Elon Musk, who also just happens to own a car company. I think they only reason Musk and the MSM are trying so hard to meme hyperloop into reality is because they know it will never work, and they can just stall any development on tried-and-true HSR, and sell more cars.
Alaska Gov. Mike Dunleavy is asking President Donald Trump to grant a presidential permit to extend the Alaska Railroad into Canada, supporting a Canadian company seeking to blaze a new path for Asian-bound products.
Linking the Alaska and North American rail systems, an idea more than a century old, would cut at least two days travel time for Canadian and Lower 48 cargo headed to the Far East because of shorter sea routes, supporters say.
Quote:
“A2A (Alberta to Alaska) will make Alaska’s ports the closest to Asia in North America,” Mead Treadwell, a former Alaska lieutenant governor and consultant to the Canadian company, told a reporter on Thursday.
The company plans to raise money for the $17 billion project. It does not intend to seek state funds, Treadwell said.
A2A would build 1,700 miles of rail to Alberta’s tar-sands oil fields, with 200 miles of that in Alaska, reaching the rail system at North Pole.
Quote:
Railcars would move overland to Cook Inlet, carrying passengers and freight. Cargo would include bitumen, the semi-solid, tar-like form of crude oil, potash used in fertilizer, and ore from mines.
Asian imports could be hauled into Canada and the Lower 48.
Estimates show the project would generate at least $4 billion in annual revenues, the company says.
There have been talks about a rail connection from Alaska to the contiguous 48 states for over a century (see Canada Alaska Railway), but none have ever come to fruition. Not sure if this proposal will be any more successful.
Even if it is, I doubt if it will ever see passenger service.
I'm cross-posting from the other "VIA Rail" thread, which should have never been created in the first place:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00
Actually it does. It's really simple. If revenue > operating costs, no subsidy required. The rest of VIA will still need to be subsidized. But the Corridor won't. And that's a huge part of the sales pitch for this project. If you're suggesting that this is not true, we have huge issues at that point....
[...]
You can go through VIA's financials and work out the per passenger subsidy and $/pax-km. I believe Urban_sky has shown this before. If not here, than Urban Toronto. Using those metrics, every route is more subsidized than the Corridor IIRC.
More than likely we will see service cuts and tax increases. Which is all the more important for VIA to get data-driven prioritization in place. I am hoping that HFR can go fast enough that the reduction in Corridor subsidies, after launch, can offset cuts in total subsidies to VIA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00
I predict net profit on Corridor East (which is what HFR is). VIA is already over a dozen trains a day. Every train they add fills up fairly quickly. And they will be in a situation where Toronto-Ottawa, Ottawa-Montreal and Montreal-Quebec City are competitive with air. They'll be able to divert a fair amount of passengers used to paying air fares. But I'll just wait to be proven right in a few years. No point going back and forth.
The operation of the Corridor already generates a profit of $77 million (2018 figures, i.e. latest available) ...
Quote:
4.2.1 Corridor
a) Revenues: In 2018, 4.5 million passengers traveled in the Corridor, representing 94% of VIA Rail’s traffic and 80% of passenger revenue. Following an increase in ridership from 4.1 million in 2017, revenues increased from $263.4 to $294.0 million.
[...]
b) Operating Expenses: For the period between 2017 and 2018, variable expenses have increased $18.9 million (9.5%) due to increased compensation costs (mainly due to poor OTP), track access costs, and maintenance costs.
c) Contribution and Efficiency: In 2018, the Corridor’s variable operating ratio (variable revenue/variable expenses) improved to 135% from 133% in 2017.
From 2017 to 2018, the Corridor’s variable contribution increased by 18.0% from $65.3 million to $77.0 million.
... of which just under half ($37.8 million) is offset by the subsidies required by the Canadian ($6.5 million), Ocean ($11.3 million) and regional services ($20.0 million), whereas ...
Quote:
4.2.2 The Canadian
a) Revenues: From 2017 to 2018, the Canadian’s revenues declined -5.6% primarily due to the poor OTP of the service. In 2018, the Canadian generated $60.2 million in passenger revenue.
b) Variable Expenses: Between 2017 and 2018, the Canadian’s variable expenses increased by 5.9%, due to increased compensation costs (mainly due to poor OTP) and inflation.
c) Contribution and Efficiency: Between 2017 and 2018, the Canadian’s variable contribution deteriorated, going from $0.8 million to $-6.5 million. The operating ratio fell from 101% in 2017 to 90% in 2018.
4.2.3 The Ocean
a) Revenues: From 2017 to 2018, the Ocean’s ridership fell -1.9% and revenue increased 3.8%. The Ocean generated $10.8 million in variable revenue.
b) Variable Expenses: Between 2017 and 2018, the Ocean’s variable expenses decreased by -1.3%, despite increased compensation costs and inflation.
c) Contribution and Efficiency: The Ocean’s negative variable contribution improved moderately over the period, decreasing from $12.0 to $11.3 million (-5.8%).
4.2.4 Regional Services
a) Revenues: Between 2017 and 2018, Regional services revenues declined by $-0.9 million (-23.7%). Tailored Regional service drove year over year passenger revenue increases in 2015 and 2016. These increases were the first since 2010. They represented $0.8 million (19.8%), and $0.4 million (9.6%) respectively. Unfortunately, issues with OTP have reversed this increase.
b) Variable Expenses: For the period between 2017 and 2018 expenses decreased by $-2.0 million (-8.0%). This is mostly due to the suspension of service to Churchill.
c) Contribution and Efficiency: Given the offsetting declines in revenues and expenses, the negative variable contribution improved slightly from $21.1 million in 2017 to $20.0 million in 2018 (-5.2%).
... the remaining $39.2 million contribute towards VIA's overheads (like my salary), which are pretty much the same regardless of whether VIA operates close to 7 million train-miles per year or not even one-fifth of its regular timetable volume (as since March 31). This means that without its Corridor operations, VIA's operating subsidy need (which includes these overheads) would be $347.1 million instead of the $270.1 million reported in VIA's Annual Report 2018 (p.8), thus 28.5% higher. The Corridor is already profitable today (operational ratio of 135% in 2018) and, believe it or not, even the Canadian managed to just cover its variable costs at least in 2017 (operational ratio of 101%), for quite possibly the first time in its now 65 years of existence.
All of this just to say that if anyone doubts that HFR could break-even, the existing Corridor services already achieve this today (well, until a few months ago, of course)...
I guess swimmer_spe couldn’t find it. Did you guys know that sometimes a thread can be hidden? For instance, sometimes I couldn’t find the Atlantic Highway Thread and had to go through my list of subscribed threads.
@Moderators: Time to merge?
Edit: Even then I don’t think this is the original one. There must be a much older one.
Please not! Swimmer_spe sees that thread as his own property and I wouldn't want to take away his toy. Multiple posters have asked to be able to only discuss with one of us (and swimmer_spe has even blocked me), so why don't we keep both threads to separate the discussions with me from those with him?
Therefore, those who want to discuss with swimmer_spe and watch him dragging every discussion back to his near-religious conviction that Western Canada ought to have daily intercity passenger rail and that any data not supporting (or even contradicting) this notion is either invalid or just interpreted the wrong way, you can post in his thread. Conversely, everyone not eager to drive up the page count of that thread further towards 100 and beyond, can post here. And you know what the best thing is? Nobody is forced to chose between posting here (with me) or in the other thread (with swimmer_spe), as you can do both - just in separate threads...
Last edited by Urban_Sky; May 13, 2020 at 4:46 PM.
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