Transit Fantasies

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by GMD

Ideally, these could connect as part of a single line (which would cross itself around Kootenay Loop - Hastings/Willingdon), which would of course, then extend from Metrotown, west along 41st and up to UBC... in my transit fantasy I refer to this as the 'Sea to Sky Line' (starting at the sea in UBC, and ending, via Gondola from Hastings/Duthie in the sky at SFU)

The issue is that there's not a whole lot in terms of dense development on the other side of 2nd Narrows, and it wouldn't replace the Seabus.

Getting as close to Waterfront-Lonsdale as economically possible is the way to go here.

[waves]

Went down another rabbit hole. This time with phasing.

[CanSpice]

That line that goes through Delta is, and I'm sorry to be blunt, terrible. And a Kerrisdale line but nothing along Marine Drive? And SkyTrain to the ferries will probably never happen because it's just not a good idea. It's all fine and good drawing lines on a map but they should really bear some resemblance to reality.

[waves]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

That line that goes through Delta is, and I'm sorry to be blunt, terrible. And a Kerrisdale line but nothing along Marine Drive? And SkyTrain to the ferries will probably never happen because it's just not a good idea. It's all fine and good drawing lines on a map but they should really bear some resemblance to reality.

At Grade in the middle of a highway? Doesn't seem like such a terrible idea to move people a long distance for cheap.

Marine Drive has development along only one side of it. Doesn't even have an express bus on it. The part through Burnaby is also agriculture with spotted commercial. Why should it get Skytrain?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by waves

Went down another rabbit hole. This time with phasing.

I really like it!!! Some of it will be in the very long-term, but I think the Langley/Willowbrook /&Guildford line might be next up, along with the UBC extension (perhaps top priority), and the line to kerrisdale is a great idea.
Under the harbour to Lonsdale and up would be my choice for then next leg. The rest, in due course, but that's just my take on it. Oh, and make the SEABUS every 10 minutes most of the day.
The time frame you have posted seems reasonable and realistic, IMO.
One last reservation though. I really think more and higher frequency suburban commuter rail would be better out to Maple Ridge,
also through Delta to Willowbrook and on to Abbotsford, if possible.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by waves

Went down another rabbit hole. This time with phasing.

The main issue I have with it is all the interlining. Yeah it's a nice idea to give people a one-seat ride but it's not very practical (it's come up on here before). Your green Lonsdale Line would easily work as a separate L Line in Surrey and then another separate line across to the North Shore. Also it doesn't all need to be Skytrain - some of the lines make more sense as commuter rail or even B Lines.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by waves

At Grade in the middle of a highway? Doesn't seem like such a terrible idea to move people a long distance for cheap.

Marine Drive has development along only one side of it. Doesn't even have an express bus on it. The part through Burnaby is also agriculture with spotted commercial. Why should it get Skytrain?

It's not all along Hwy 10/99 median- plus, it'll still have to be elevated as it goes into populated area.

Marine Drive would be ok for Commuter Rail, though. Bonus points if you can get it onto Arbutus and upgrade the New Westminister Bridge.

Originally Posted by waves

Went down another rabbit hole. This time with phasing.

Uhh... I think you're putting too much emphasis on the North Shore here...

But really, there's a lot of decent ideas here. I have a problem with the Kerrisdale Line though- people using it are largely people going to UBC as well. Which is why the B-line is supposed to go all the way there.


Also, no way to get to PNE on Skytrain

[GMD]

Originally Posted by fredinno

The issue is that there's not a whole lot in terms of dense development on the other side of 2nd Narrows, and it wouldn't replace the Seabus.

Getting as close to Waterfront-Lonsdale as economically possible is the way to go here.

This *is* as close as is economically possible. Similar to Hong Kong where they didn't replace the Star Ferry with MTR, just supplemented it. A lot of busses meet up at Phibbs Exchange, and it would be a demarcation point for Capilano (ideally via a gondola). Then a stop at Park & Tilford, and then next stop at Lonsdale - wouldn't take long.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by GMD

This *is* as close as is economically possible. Similar to Hong Kong where they didn't replace the Star Ferry with MTR, just supplemented it. A lot of busses meet up at Phibbs Exchange, and it would be a demarcation point for Capilano (ideally via a gondola). Then a stop at Park & Tilford, and then next stop at Lonsdale - wouldn't take long.

There were cost estimates on some previous pages that held the cost of the line at ~2 Billion- at least via Commercial Drive.

Going through the old Freeway Corridor near the shallows near Brockton Point is also an option.

[Bdawe]

I made a thing https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WKoFUcwF6Vl7g38OzuytCPXzl-In6Byw&usp=sharing

[Dengler Avenue]

nice work

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

I made a thing https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WKoFUcwF6Vl7g38OzuytCPXzl-In6Byw&usp=sharing

Is it all Skytrain, or...?

Either way, interesting solutions in here.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Is it all Skytrain, or...?

Either way, interesting solutions in here.

There's a description if you click on each individual line. If I'm reading it right, the Marine Drive and Hastings lines are SkyTrain; the rest is light rail.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

There's a description if you click on each individual line. If I'm reading it right, the Marine Drive and Hastings lines are SkyTrain; the rest is light rail.

it seems only the green lines are LRT...

I think either Fraser St. or Main St. should be removed. it seems like one would take too much demand off the other.

Either way, pretty interesting stuff.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

it seems only the green lines are LRT...

I think either Fraser St. or Main St. should be removed. it seems like one would take too much demand off the other.

Either way, pretty interesting stuff.

Don't forget Commercial and the two Surrey lines.

I'm really not seeing the need for either - Main and Fraser would be fine with just more bus service. Kingsway maybe, but only after the Willingdon and Commercial SkyTrains are finished, and the Expo and #19 are completely balls-to-the-wall packed.

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Don't forget Commercial and the two Surrey lines.

I'm really not seeing the need for either - Main and Fraser would be fine with just more bus service. Kingsway maybe, but only after the Willingdon and Commercial SkyTrains are finished, and the Expo and #19 are completely balls-to-the-wall packed.

I I agree the light rail lines as more fantastical than other lines.

I think the main point I wanted to make was that the North Shore could possibly be served by redirecting the Expo Line, with Waterfront being taken over by hastings, and that the Production Way branch could be through-routed to the Marpole interuban (and in this imagining, wired up for lrvs rather than grade separtated) in order to create more branching opportunities in Surrey, and that Burnaby Mountain isn't quite as steep as I had thought it was

I'd argue that Kingsway should be done before the skytrain can handle no more, as improved Kingsway service would take pressure off of the most congested section of the Expo Line and reduce the capacity demand imbalance along that the whole line.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

I I agree the light rail lines as more fantastical than other lines.

I think the main point I wanted to make was that the North Shore could possibly be served by redirecting the Expo Line, with Waterfront being taken over by hastings, and that the Production Way branch could be through-routed to the Marpole interuban (and in this imagining, wired up for lrvs rather than grade separtated) in order to create more branching opportunities in Surrey, and that Burnaby Mountain isn't quite as steep as I had thought it was

I'd argue that Kingsway should be done before the skytrain can handle no more, as improved Kingsway service would take pressure off of the most congested section of the Expo Line and reduce the capacity demand imbalance along that the whole line.

Makes sense, and agreed on Hastings taking Waterfront... though personally I'd make the North Shore its own line - that takes pressure off the Expo and all that. Is the SkyTrain viaduct/rails/signalling compatible with LRVs?

Fair enough, though again, I'd make sure there's already rapid transit options on all sides. Every time trams "share" a road with other vehicles, it ends in either a pyrrhic victory or a stalemate.

[waves]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

I'd argue that Kingsway should be done before the skytrain can handle no more, as improved Kingsway service would take pressure off of the most congested section of the Expo Line and reduce the capacity demand imbalance along that the whole line.

Skytrain is not even close to its design capacity of 25,000 pphpd. It runs at 15,000 pphpd at peak hours currently. Its going to be a long time till it reaches that capacity.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by waves

Skytrain is not even close to its design capacity of 25,000 pphpd. It runs at 15,000 pphpd at peak hours currently. Its going to be a long time till it reaches that capacity.

Respectfully, I don't know what these capacities are based off. The Japanese shoving people onto train experience?

Most mornings the trains are so busy its already a sandwich factory inside.

Or does this simply refer to the fact we can add significantly more train cars and trains in general to existing lines?

[waves]

Originally Posted by rofina

Respectfully, I don't know what these capacities are based off. The Japanese shoving people onto train experience?

Most mornings the trains are so busy its already a sandwich factory inside.

Or does this simply refer to the fact we can add significantly more train cars and trains in general to existing lines?

Yup, we need more trains. It's probably actually the biggest problem with our system right now both the Expo and Millennium are stretched quite thin particularly after the Evergreen Extension came on.