2018 London Municipal Election

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Blitz

I think this is easy for you to say from far off British Columbia but when I'm sitting in traffic every single day in London and it's taking me 25 minutes to get from the west side of the UWO campus to the east side of downtown I'm certainly not thinking about how 'nice or livable' London is.

You know what would help you? Moving a lot of those single-occupancy drivers off the road by making transit a viable option for them.

Enjoy the next decade of traffic.

[tyeman200]

We need something at least. You can't say London isn't growing when I see suburbs popping up everywhere around London. I'm disappointed only 37% of Londoners went out and voted, and that BRT is probably dead. I'll be honest, that makes me want to move to a city that actually gives a shit about transit and doesn't heed to a bunch of whiny bitches, and chances are I probably will before next election. London is a hopeless city; no one wants to make huge changes but yet are sick of all the traffic/transit and road conditions. At this point if London wants to have any reliable transit or better traffic flow, it has to be something major.

& People think we're going to have $500 million once we scrap BRT? Not a chance in hell, Truenorth is right it's all going towards Hamilton or K/W, cities that don't listen to whiners and get things done right.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You know what would help you? Moving a lot of those single-occupancy drivers off the road by making transit a viable option for them.

Enjoy the next decade of traffic.

LOL, that's another issue. I hate to say it but London drivers are the absolute worst. I don't understand how the left lane, which is a fast lane, turned into a slow moving lane. I don't understand why people drive under the speed limit or at the speed limit when you can go 10-15 above the limit and be fine. I don't understand why when people turn left they brake before going into the lane, You're supposed to go into the turn lane and THEN brake, & on that note, if you're turning right and someone is turning left or there is an advance you can go if there is 2 lanes. The person turning left is supposed to stay in the left lane, and the person turning right is supposed to stay in the right lane.

I bitch about this a lot but I basically drive around jobsite to jobsite for my job, and the most stressful part is the driving. It's ridiculous bigger cities with more volumes of traffic and more people can manage better traffic flow than London.

[Blitz]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You know what would help you? Moving a lot of those single-occupancy drivers off the road by making transit a viable option for them.

Enjoy the next decade of traffic.

Exactly...hence my vote for Park. When I referred to sitting in traffic I'm talking about on the bus too. It's hell...and don't even get me started about the freight trains. I'd like to think that I'm one of those young urban folk that London is looking to attract (I came here for grad school from somewhere else and ended up staying for a job and I've lived downtown for a while now...but sometimes the city doesn't make it easy).

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

People think we're going to have $500 million once we scrap BRT?

People actually believe this???

If so, Londoners are bigger morons than I thought.

Originally Posted by tyeman200

Not a chance in hell, Truenorth is right it's all going towards Hamilton or K/W, cities that don't listen to whiners and get things done right.

Feds and province both running deficits. Climate change is a massive concern. And dumbasses think they are going to be handing over funds to build highways in an insignificant medium sized city?

Not only will London get nothing. Your federal and provincial tax dollars will help Waterloo, Hamilton, Mississauga, Toronto, York Region and Ottawa build really nice systems. The last chance to actually get money was to make a move now. Eventually, Queen's Park and the feds will be cutting back spending, and their funds will all go to cities that have plans in place to build transit or to fund extensions of lines in existing cities.

Doug Ford and Justin Trudeau would like to thank you for voluntarily cutting your transit spending and giving them an excuse to redirect funds to cities that will help elect more members of their caucus.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Doug Ford and Justin Trudeau would like to thank you for voluntarily cutting your transit spending and giving them an excuse to redirect funds to cities that will help elect more members of their caucus.

And on that note, both will be looking at gains in London in their respective re-election campaigns. I wouldn't count on that money disappearing.

[Stevo26]

Blitz writes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo26 View Post
However, London's problems really began when the city blew its opportunity to build a proper in-city expressway back in the 1960s. "Too expensive." "Nobody will use it." "We don't need it." "It will cause disruption." "People will lose their homes and businesses due to expropriation or construction." "I won't use it, so nobody else should need it or want it." "Taxes will go up to pay for it." "London is too small for 'x'. "

That right there is the problem. Kitchener, Windsor, Hamilton, and St. Catharines all have expressways and have nowhere near the traffic issues that London has.


Even my hometown of Sarnia, with a population of about 70,000, has an expressway of sorts. It's basically the Highway 402 extension that links the highway with the Bluewater Bridge. There are three on and off-ramps to the extension, so it's pretty easy to access and use. Then again, most people in Sarnia don't really need to use the extension, because Sarnia is pretty small and in most parts of the city, traffic is very light at any given time of day.

The extension was probably built not just to improve access to the border, but also from the hope that Sarnia might someday expand, and a growing population would need an in-city expressway. However, that is unlikely to happen, as the city's population is shrinking rather than growing.

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

We need something at least. You can't say London isn't growing when I see suburbs popping up everywhere around London. I'm disappointed only 37% of Londoners went out and voted, and that BRT is probably dead. I'll be honest, that makes me want to move to a city that actually gives a shit about transit and doesn't heed to a bunch of whiny bitches, and chances are I probably will before next election. London is a hopeless city; no one wants to make huge changes but yet are sick of all the traffic/transit and road conditions. At this point if London wants to have any reliable transit or better traffic flow, it has to be something major.

& People think we're going to have $500 million once we scrap BRT? Not a chance in hell, Truenorth is right it's all going towards Hamilton or K/W, cities that don't listen to whiners and get things done right.

I'm looking at retiring in a few years and am seriously considering whether I want to stay in London. I may not be able to afford to keep my condo, but rents in London are getting stupidly expensive. Indeed, what I could afford to rent on my pension is a rat-hole, if London rents are factored in. Better, I think, to move to a city where rents are more reasonable.

I've not been happy with how the city handles a lot of issues. It seems like the people who live in London are dead-set against progress of any note, and the city isn't doing enough to make life better for the people who live here.

[MrSlippery519]

I think we need tol make sure your voice is heard to you local councilor, I have to hope most of them are not stupid and realize that London does need RT of some kind without a question. They also have to realize that that transit approved money will go away.

I wish Brown had re-run, love or hate him he at least made an effort to make something happen. It was not always what everyone wanted but he attempted to make an impact. Add to that 37% is the voter turn out, that is an absolute joke. Why is voting not mandatory by the way? You get fined in Australia for example if you do not vote (unless you have a valid reason)

PS...bring back LRT - airport / fanshawe / western done

[Dupcheck]

We are not that bad, I still would rather live and raise my family in London ON than anywhere in GTA.

That said, I still think we do a lot of tasks backwards in our city. What drives me nuts the most is the traffic congestion is getting worse every year. It takes 30 minutes to drive 5 to 10 km of distance on average at rush hour.

We build a new road to have it torn out again in a month for repairing a mistake.

We build new sidewalks without considering putting in a bus bay, we have to go back next few months and tear it up again so we can add them. (Adelaide/Kipps Lane to Windemere a perfect example going on right now) we could have had two bus bays added, lots of room on both sides, nope nothing so far. The traffic is horrendous on Adelaide from Fanshawe to Oxford and beyond. Lights synchronization is run by monkeys, and bus bays are non existent.

We have bus waiting areas without shelters, we get lots of rain, snow, and crazy winds. The ones that do have bus shelters, are made with breakable glass, were some psychopath goes on a spree to break them every year. No cameras on any of them.

We love to create unnecessary work for ourselves and keep busy working on things that could have been solved once. This is a wide spread culture in our city at all levels of business private and government. We also drive fastest on the right lane, the left lane is the slow lane in our London ON. People here also are of the mentality that we never had a problem before! Well guess what you have a big traffic clogging problem now, and better do something about it right away.

[TallerIsBetter]

Again I'll contrast London to Lubbock, TX. Lubbock is half the size of London, but has I-27 running N-S through the city, Loop 289, a full limited access ring, and the recent billion dollar 82/62 freeway from downtown, SW past the University and out well past the ring (they bulldozed Buddy Holly's childhood neighborhood to build it). All of these have two lane service roads on both sides, along their full length. So, that means its time to start on their SECOND ring road, the Outer Loop. London could still build anything it wants, including a ring road or cross town freeway. It just takes money and a will to do so. Unfortunately, I'm now convinced that the Anti-Car mentality is what always had and will hold this city back. The Council of the 70s rejected the Provincial freeway build offer and a lot of their motivation was a general anti-car ethos (they don't have Gina Barber's Car Free Sundays in Lubbock, lol) - I remember Jane Bigelow suggesting everyone put a brick in your toilet to save water.

Problem is that the way London is laid out with a downtown and everything going out in all directions means we are naturally a car city. Same with Lubbock's layout. Trouble is we have a lot of people that want to deny that and try and impose strategies that only really work in cities laid out differently. Mass transit really works in Toronto because everyone who is downtown goes in less directions (not south, and mostly north to meet the Bloor line.).

http://www.lubbockonline.com/storyimage/TX/20180722/NEWS/180729783/AR/0/AR-180729783.jpg

[TallerIsBetter]

That being said I'd like to see transit improved so that life is easier for those who depend on it to get around and to get to work as they have no alternative. The biggest problem with BRT is/was the dedicated lanes. I have thought long and hard on this and I'm sorry this is more social engineering to get people out of cars for no good reason than it is anything to help us all get around. The dedicated lanes need to go.

What we need:

- Improved general traffic flow. Undepasses, overpasses, realignments, even partial in town limited access sections that relieve bottlenecks and choke points (tear down whatever is needed to do this).

- Spened the money to widen roads as needed. No more of the resistance to this - more capacity is needed.

- Possibilities include make Highbury limited access further north, put Oxford under Wharncliffe (allow no turns), put Oxford under Highbury. Redo Talbot's CP rail bridge (the "Truckcatcher") to four lanes and widen the Oxford bridge to six lanes.

Make transit flexible, frequent, and in the right places. If you remove the choke points you have improved flow - and with increased capacity and frequency you'll see improvement in ridership. Say Western to Downtown every five minutes on a Western Rd that flows well.

- Bus bays.

Start planning a loop/ring road. Work out whatever is needed to get done between City/County/Province (a northern Provincially built route to link to Stratford and into Kitchener might be a good idea).

I'm really just brainstorming with these, but we have to think big and outside the box to solve the problems that prior Councils and idealistic/shortsighted planners have left us with.

Anyone else have bold ideas?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

And on that note, both will be looking at gains in London in their respective re-election campaigns. I wouldn't count on that money disappearing.

Yeah. Cause London has sooooo many seats that it's a must win for them.....

Both the feds and Queen's Park can win more seats elsewhere with the $150-200 million each would have put in. And they'll do just that.

[Truenorth00]

I'll say it again. There is no money coming to build highways through London. At least not from the Feds or Queen's Park. So unless you want to pay more through your property taxes, this is not happening.

The feds will basically only pay for roads when they are absolutely strategic (new border bridge for example). All of their funds, otherwise, are directed at projects which reduce emissions. So unless you pitch a road widening to accommodate bus lanes, Justin is not cutting your town a cheque.

Queen's Park is really broke. And has to pay for a multi-billion dollar subway in Scarborough and several LRTs in cities that have far more seats up for grabs. For example, Ottawa is going to extend their LRT west into or near several ridings held by Conservative MPPs or seats almost won by Conservatives. So that will take priority.

Given that most locals aren't all that thrilled about property tax increase, the best hope now will be really efficient pot-hole filling. That's the real transportation strategy for the next half decade for London, ON.

[Dupcheck]

We also need more roundabouts. Roundabouts do not need lights to synchronize anything. They are dynamic flow of traffic, most of the world uses them and drivers love them.

Someone should pdf all these ideas out and send them to Ed Holder. The council can use most of these.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by TallerIsBetter

Again I'll contrast London to Lubbock, TX. Lubbock is half the size of London, but has I-27 running N-S through the city, Loop 289, a full limited access ring, and the recent billion dollar 82/62 freeway from downtown, SW past the University and out well past the ring (they bulldozed Buddy Holly's childhood neighborhood to build it). All of these have two lane service roads on both sides, along their full length. So, that means its time to start on their SECOND ring road, the Outer Loop. London could still build anything it wants, including a ring road or cross town freeway. It just takes money and a will to do so. Unfortunately, I'm now convinced that the Anti-Car mentality is what always had and will hold this city back. The Council of the 70s rejected the Provincial freeway build offer and a lot of their motivation was a general anti-car ethos (they don't have Gina Barber's Car Free Sundays in Lubbock, lol) - I remember Jane Bigelow suggesting everyone put a brick in your toilet to save water.

Problem is that the way London is laid out with a downtown and everything going out in all directions means we are naturally a car city. Same with Lubbock's layout. Trouble is we have a lot of people that want to deny that and try and impose strategies that only really work in cities laid out differently. Mass transit really works in Toronto because everyone who is downtown goes in less directions (not south, and mostly north to meet the Bloor line.).

http://www.lubbockonline.com/storyimage/TX/20180722/NEWS/180729783/AR/0/AR-180729783.jpg

Uggh. I don't want to be offensive. But this is pure ignorance on urban design. If you're going to model London after a small city elsewhere, why the hell would you choose Lubbock, Tx? There are cities the size of London all over the world that are transit friendly. And given the fact that London doesn't have a highway through it, that's exactly what London could and should be.

This does not mean "no driving" as the usual strawman response runs. It means, proper transit that is convenient to most people, which should in turn free up roadspace. London is small enough, that a well designed transit system should be able to connect anyone to the downtown core in about 20 mins and any two points in London in about 30 mins.

Cherry on top is citing Toronto as an example of mass transit that works. Canadians are so ignorant of what good urban planning and public transport looks like that they think Toronto has public transit that "works". It's sad.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Dupcheck

We also need more roundabouts. Roundabouts do not need lights to synchronize anything. They are dynamic flow of traffic, most of the world uses them and drivers love them.

Someone should pdf all these ideas out and send them to Ed Holder. The council can use most of these.

Another area where Waterloo is ahead. They've built dozens of them.

https://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/living-here/roundabouts.aspx

There's some mixed results though:

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/7186456-crashes-plague-cambridge-s-biggest-roundabout/

[TallerIsBetter]

[QUOTE=Truenorth00;8356224]
It means, proper transit that is convenient to most people/QUOTE]

To most people in London "proper" means driving. That is the reality first and foremost. A lot of the problems we have are from people who want to impose (either directly or indirectly) THEIR view of proper.

London can be well served by better transit. But we need to recognize the car isn't going anywhere because the way the city is laid out. Maybe we should look at a limited but effective "rapid" solution - Dundas/Wellington non stop to an Old East terminal with frequent spokes from there. And high frequency limited/no stop service from Western every 5 minutes along Western/Wharncliffe to the forks/Bud Gardens. Park and ride non-stop busses from a big terminal on the empty Hospital land at the SW corner of Commissioners and Wellington to Dundas Wellington.

Ideas. Lets come up with great ideas. But stop with the Anti-Car stuff and build the road infrastructure we need. That is where Lubbock is SMART.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Uggh. I don't want to be offensive. But this is pure ignorance on urban design. If you're going to model London after a small city elsewhere, why the hell would you choose Lubbock, Tx? There are cities the size of London all over the world that are transit friendly. And given the fact that London doesn't have a highway through it, that's exactly what London could and should be.

This does not mean "no driving" as the usual strawman response runs. It means, proper transit that is convenient to most people, which should in turn free up roadspace. London is small enough, that a well designed transit system should be able to connect anyone to the downtown core in about 20 mins and any two points in London in about 30 mins.

Cherry on top is citing Toronto as an example of mass transit that works. Canadians are so ignorant of what good urban planning and public transport looks like that they think Toronto has public transit that "works". It's sad.

This x 2

[TallerIsBetter]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

London is small enough, that a well designed transit system should be able to connect anyone to the downtown core in about 20 mins and any two points in London in about 30 mins.

If that were true, I and lots of people would be onboard, so to speak. But LRT & BRT were not going to do that. The village of Hyde Park to Summerside, or Byron to Fanshawe, or Adelaide to Lambeth would still be 1 to 1.5 hours with BRT when you factor in getting from the average residence to the transit system entry point and then from the transit entry point to final destination. You can't just measure the in transit system duration - that doesn't get you there, figuratively or literally. Those drives are a lot less than that.