Ottawa's bid for Amazon HQ2

[Vixx]

Originally Posted by Harley613

No way Atlanta is in a better position Geographically. Not even close. Ottawa is in the middle of the Quebec City-Windsor Corridor in a country that has a 2 week turnaround time for foreign tech visas and it's within a few hours drive/2 hour flight of American cities like Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Columbus, and many more. Atlanta is as close to what...Nashville? Louisville? Jacksonville? Charlotte? How is that going to help?
Not even a comparison. Sure they have direct flights to pretty much everywhere, but they are completely insular as far as driving goes. There are no major cities within an easy drive at all. Ottawa has a massive geographical advantage...unfortunately Toronto shares that advantage. I have a feeling Toronto is going to win this sweepstakes regardless of the cost of real estate. They check off all the other boxes.

Ottawa is definitely well positioned geographically. But speaking in those terms exclusively, Atlanta still has an edge IMO. While Ottawa is slightly closer to the east coast corridor of NYC-Washington, Atlanta is relatively close to there as well, and not only that they are close to Florida, the Carolinas, Texas etc.

I think Ottawa would be a MUCH better choice then a city like Atlanta, but I still hold the opinion that geographically, Atlanta holds the edge.

[Vixx]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I spend a lot of time in Atlanta for work. Not sure the crime stats (not saying it's good), but the sprawl isn't that much different than any other city and I am not even sure how that would negatively affect a bid anyways. As far as young tech professionals wanting to settle there, I would say they are coming there in droves already. Atlanta is the major city of the southeast - tons of head offices, media companies (CNN, Turner, etc), attractions, every major sports league except NHL, hip neighbourhoods. And the city is relatively affordable for a major U.S. city.

Makes sense, especially considering you have spent considerable time there. I guess I was basing my opinion on preconceived notions. But when thinking of where the stereotypical Amazon employee lives, places like Boston, Austin and Silicon Valley come to mind, not Atlanta or Charlotte.

[1overcosc]

Charlotte also has the issue of many businesses boycotting North Carolina over the HB2 controversy.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Seems like a lower tier school in the technology sector.

http://www.businessinsider.com/schools-with-the-most-alumni-at-google-2015-10

And yet better than what most of Canada has to offer.

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Atlanta has very good connections within the USA but it's international connections aren't nearly as good.. YYZ actually has more.

Atlanta is Delta fortress hub. Seattle is also a DL hub. Amazon would absolutely consider this if they can strike a corporate deal with DL for air travel.

And while YYZ has more connections, it's in Canada. ATL is great for connections, especially when you consider that it it is not in an expensive metro like SF or NY

Originally Posted by Vixx

Makes sense, especially considering you have spent considerable time there. I guess I was basing my opinion on preconceived notions. But when thinking of where the stereotypical Amazon employee lives, places like Boston, Austin and Silicon Valley come to mind, not Atlanta or Charlotte.

And a few years ago, you would not have had any place in Texas on that list. The reality is that the South is booming in the US. It's population is growing faster than anywhere else. So other progress will follow in due course. Companies know that. Raleigh, NC is actually a growing hub. Despite HB2.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I didn't in any way suggest that. I was responding to several posts that had said Atlanta was in the lead.

I was responding to several posts that were claiming Atlanta is undesirable. Nobody really cares if it is intolerant or suburban and the climate is second only to California/Southwest in desireability for most Americans. It isn't much hotter than the northeast in summer and has no winter which is key for most people.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Most people don't eat at the 10 best restaurants.

No but these are the types of places used for these surveys. Basically looking for an explanation of how Montreal is considered more expensive than Ottawa.
Actually in Ottawa the 10 most expensive restaurants probably would be frequented by your typical Amazon employee.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I was responding to several posts that were claiming Atlanta is undesirable. Nobody really cares if it is intolerant or suburban and the climate is second only to California/Southwest in desireability for most Americans. It isn't much hotter than the northeast in summer and has no winter which is key for most people.

Again it depends on what Amazon wants to put in HQ2. If they're trying to hire customer service reps, data entry people, buyers, and low-level coders then Atlanta is fine, and has the added advantage of a major airport hub and low taxes and regulation.

If they are trying to attract top talent from top universities that have job offers all over the world then the quality of life becomes important. It is no coincidence that certain types of cities (not Atlanta) have attracted tech hubs.

See, for example: https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/07/the-worlds-leading-startup-cities/399623/

I could see a scenario where HQ1 in Seattle is where the higher-level work is located and HQ2 is where the lower-level work will be, in which case Atlanta is perfectly feasible as a leading candidate.

[1overcosc]

Many non-white people and many LGBT people would not be comfortable moving to the South. If HQ2 needs to attract top talent Atlanta or Charlotte are not good choices.

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Many non-white people and many LGBT people would not be comfortable moving to the South. If HQ2 needs to attract top talent Atlanta or Charlotte are not good choices.

Isn't Atlanta the least white US city?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Many non-white people and many LGBT people would not be comfortable moving to the South. If HQ2 needs to attract top talent Atlanta or Charlotte are not good choices.

North Carolina was the most tolerant state in the South prior to 2013, which had helped to attract a big tech sector.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Isn't Atlanta the least white US city?

That's what I was thinking. It has a huge black population, a big hip-hop scene, and supposedly there's big black gay community.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

That's what I was thinking. It has a huge black population, a big hip-hop scene, and supposedly there's big black gay community.

There's a big gay community, period. It would not be an issue.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by acottawa

North Carolina was the most tolerant state in the South prior to 2013, which had helped to attract a big tech sector.

True.. it's easy to forget that in light of the HB2 controversy that spawned later.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

That's what I was thinking. It has a huge black population, a big hip-hop scene, and supposedly there's big black gay community.

Remember, perception trumps reality. I've never lived in Atlanta or even been there before and it may very well be an awesome place to live for minority groups; but the point is, for people who don't have experience with the city, their first thought is that it's not. And the various headlines that keep coming out of the South to this day reinforce that notion.

There's a reason why the tech sector and all its growth is overwhelmingly concentrated in the liberal states despite those states consistently having higher taxes and higher costs.

[Acajack]

Amazon also isn't Facebook or Google in terms of having this type of corporate moral compass.

Just sayin'.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Amazon also isn't Facebook or Google in terms of having this type of corporate moral compass.

Just sayin'.

You're right, the culture isn't quite there (yet anyway), but when they're acting as a tech company, they're still bound by the influence this stuff has on HR and hiring. That's the main reason why Facebook and Google have gone in this direction. Tech companies owe everything to their talent bases.

Compared to Facebook or Google or Apple, Amazon isn't quite as heavily "tech"--ie. it has a substantial blue-collar employment base for the retail side of its business that the other tech giants don't--but as Amazon continues to aggressively push into other sectors that part of its business is becoming less significant over time and it's looking more and more like a tech company (heck, Amazon now makes more revenue off its cloud computing business than its retail business). This in turn is driving the company further into that "progressive-libertarian" sort of mindset that tech giants always have.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Amazon also isn't Facebook or Google in terms of having this type of corporate moral compass.

Just sayin'.

Moral compass or not they still have to recruit.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Moral compass or not they still have to recruit.

50,000 high paying jobs in a country of 325 million? I think they'll do OK.

Even if they decide on Redneck Town, Dixie...

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

50,000 high paying jobs in a country of 325 million? I think they'll do OK.

Even if they decide on Redneck Town, Dixie...

Then why don't most high tech companies locate in Redneck Town, Dixie? Why do companies pay a huge premium to locate in Silicon Valley, Seattle, New York, London, Shanghai, etc?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Remember, perception trumps reality. I've never lived in Atlanta or even been there before and it may very well be an awesome place to live for minority groups; but the point is, for people who don't have experience with the city, their first thought is that it's not. And the various headlines that keep coming out of the South to this day reinforce that notion.

There's a reason why the tech sector and all its growth is overwhelmingly concentrated in the liberal states despite those states consistently having higher taxes and higher costs.

I think you really overestimate how much a large paycheque can overcome. I'm on a military posting currently 2 hrs outside the Bay Area. Quality of life aint great for most techies. They have horrible hours. And their huge paycheques don't take them very far at all around here. You'll have guys making six figures sharing apartments. Most of them do it because it's the place to be to build their careers. But many take any chance they get to keep the paycheque and leave. One friend moved her from Boston. Hated it here. Was tired of making 150k+ living in a townhouse over an hr from work in traffic. Company offered to move him. Jumped at the chance to go to Austin and keep his current pay. Oh, and he's not white.

Amazon didn't say they want the most progressive city in their RFP. Or they'd be piling into SF right now too.

They are a business first and foremost. And you will see that tax breaks are a substantial part of their RFP. Quality of life for residents isn't as high up on the list as things like accessibility for employees and a cohesive site.