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  #21  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2017, 1:23 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Maybe for manufacturing but what makes Ontario higher cost than anywhere else to put a corporate HQ? The key factor is office rental rates, payroll taxes and healthcare costs. These are all very competitive in Ontario and Canada.

Quebec is cheaper but hard place to put a large number of US middle managers because of Law 101.
Electricity, high minimum wage (not everyone in a HQ operation is an engineer or manager), concern about future taxes due to high debt. Cumulatively it would be a more costly operation. Also, the big disadvantage Ontario has is weak municipalities that lack financial resources (important since this is basically a "who can give the biggest bribe" exercise.

HQ type operations are exempt from most provisions of 101.

Agree wrath of the Orange Moron will be a consideration.
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  #22  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2017, 1:45 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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But if it did go to Ottawa, I think the Tremblay-St Laurent site the province recently sold to the Feds would be a good site. It would probably need a bridge to St Laurent station, but it is close to transit, the highways, the train station and is easily accessible to the airport. Plus I think it is one of the few sites big enough for 50k employees.
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  #23  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2017, 2:29 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Sorry for the 3peat, but an article in the Star on this.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/09...s-landing-new-amazon-hq-author-says.html
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  #24  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2017, 3:43 PM
BlackRedGold BlackRedGold is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
But if it did go to Ottawa, I think the Tremblay-St Laurent site the province recently sold to the Feds would be a good site. It would probably need a bridge to St Laurent station, but it is close to transit, the highways, the train station and is easily accessible to the airport. Plus I think it is one of the few sites big enough for 50k employees.
I can't see that site being big enough unless they built some of the tallest buildings in Ottawa there.

If you're looking for a good site outside of the downtown core, I don't think you'll find somewhere better than Woodroffe and Hunt Club where the Civic Hospital was considering relocating to. Right on BRT, which could be converted to LRT, close to both the 416 & 417 and good airport access. Plus there are tons of bike lanes there.
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  #25  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2017, 4:16 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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I can't see that site being big enough unless they built some of the tallest buildings in Ottawa there.
It is 30 acres, which is about the size of the Pentagon, the Coca-Cola HQ in Atlanta and the Googleplex.
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  #26  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2017, 6:45 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Sorry for the 3peat, but an article in the Star on this.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/09...s-landing-new-amazon-hq-author-says.html
That's a pretty insightful interview. After reading it I think Ottawa has a better chance than I thought.

The fact that Ottawa is the most affordable big city in Canada will be a major selling point, as well as the fact that Amazon doesn't want to have to compete with other large firms for local talent. Aside from Shopify, they wouldn't have much competition in Ottawa.

Also the fact that Austin, Charlotte and Pittsburgh are the contenders fares well for Ottawa. It shows they're looking at more mid-sized cities.
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  #27  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 12:13 PM
eltodesukane eltodesukane is offline
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Montreal has cheaper electricity, a very important advantage!
Montreal’s economy outperforming Toronto http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-ne...is-bullish-on-montreals-economic-outlook
Montreal has much to offer Amazon http://montrealgazette.com/opinion/colum...montreal-has-much-to-offer-amazon-as-hq2
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  #28  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 1:02 PM
nredding nredding is offline
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The big drawback for Ottawa as Amazon's new HQ is our terrible air service.
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  #29  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 4:40 PM
Luker Luker is offline
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The big drawback for Ottawa as Amazon's new HQ is our terrible air service.
That's been mentioned above; however, I would suspect the more significant issues would be the lack of tax incentives compared to US cities, as well as the lack of potential employees/ talent in consideration of the capacity and scale of which is required. You could empty basically the entire private sector (every employee in Ottawa not in the GoC, City, Unis, Hospitals, etc.) into Amazon and still come up short.

With 50K additional well paying jobs, and hundreds of weekly business execs seeking direct Business Class* tickets to Ottawa, it won't be hard to scale new flight routes. Not to many would be realistically needed anyways, a few new weekly daily flights to US, think (SF, LA, ATL, Houston) and 1 or 2 more to Europe and perhaps one to Beijing or Tokyo would more than solve this issue. Moreover, this can be done virtually overnight without investment by simply assigning the aircraft to the route as the airport and runway can already accommodate the A330s, 777s etc.
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  #30  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 5:18 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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That's been mentioned above; however, I would suspect the more significant issues would be the lack of tax incentives compared to US cities, as well as the lack of potential employees/ talent in consideration of the capacity and scale of which is required. You could empty basically the entire private sector (every employee in Ottawa not in the GoC, City, Unis, Hospitals, etc.) into Amazon and still come up short.
That would be a problem everywhere except silicon valley, and I think 50k is an eventual build-out, not an initial size (they only have 25k at their Seattle HQ and this is supposed to be a secondary HQ). And certainly there are many cities with a relatively large major employer compared to the size of the city (blackberry in its heyday in Waterloo, for example). The question is whether they can convince many thousands of people to relocate to Ottawa, which might be a challenge.
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  #31  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 6:35 PM
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According to the Washington Post, Ottawa is one of 39 cities that meet the basic requirements set out be Amazon. Only three Canadian Cities meet these, with Toronto and Montreal being the others.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-...quarters-contest/?utm_term=.e19c58502c7a
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  #32  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 7:51 PM
Luker Luker is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
That would be a problem everywhere except silicon valley, and I think 50k is an eventual build-out, not an initial size (they only have 25k at their Seattle HQ and this is supposed to be a secondary HQ). And certainly there are many cities with a relatively large major employer compared to the size of the city (blackberry in its heyday in Waterloo, for example). The question is whether they can convince many thousands of people to relocate to Ottawa, which might be a challenge.

"HQ1" in Seattle has 42K people currently. Yes a build out is imminent with a steady climb from 5K to 50K; however, I can assure you as someone who works closely with many of the most prestigious and well known IT companies in town that talent acquisition will certainly be an issue. And one which Amazon is familiar with having spent significant energy and cycles over the past 12+ months getting all 30 of their new employees hired here in Ottawa.

Granted, not all of the 5K or 50K will be lead programmers, architects or PMs, but they certainly won't be able to farm employees from retail outlets or warehouses environments, nor do they want to, they are NOT seeking a fulfillment center for most of their positions.

Go talk to Shopify about how hard it's been to ramp up to 800 people in Ottawa, and then think about why most of their future growth is centered around Toronto and elsewhere..?

Would love for HQ2 to land here, would be a surreal game changer to my life and industry of employment, as well as for the city at large... It's just that its a longggggg shot...

Already significant issues keeping up with demand: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-kanata-thousands-tech-jobs-1.4251048


And: https://www.mississauga.com/news-story/7...nto-region-land-new-amazon-headquarters/
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  #33  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 7:56 PM
citydwlr citydwlr is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
According to the Washington Post, Ottawa is one of 39 cities that meet the basic requirements set out be Amazon. Only three Canadian Cities meet these, with Toronto and Montreal being the others.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-...quarters-contest/?utm_term=.e19c58502c7a
There was also an interesting article on Slate:

Your City Will Lose the Contest for Amazon's New HQ

It doesn't mention Ottawa, but I particularly liked this quote:

Quote:
The single biggest difference between the remaining cities is cost: We already know that New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston, and Washington have excelled at attracting companies thanks to top-notch cultural amenities, high quality of life, solid transit systems, and excellent universities. But they’re also among the most expensive places to live in the United States, with jampacked central cities where the only thing harder to place than 100 acres of offices would be 50,000 new housing units. (This is also a problem for Toronto—sorry, John Tory.)
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  #34  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 9:17 PM
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https://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon-build-hq2-let-data-decide/

Article concludes that Ottawa and Toronto would be the best places for Amazon to setup shop, which is interesting IMO despite the flawed approach they used.

I also believe it would be hard to convince thousands to relocate to Ottawa and keep them here long term. That's not a knock on our city, but truth is many would prefer to live in Toronto or Montreal simply because of size, prestige and "culture". What could happen is many of Amazon's high ranking employees just say we're staying in Seattle and therefore many new hires just looking out for their careers and future aspirations having to fill the void.

Then again something of this magnitude would seriously help put Ottawa on the map and open many peoples eyes as to how awesome of a city Ottawa is/can be.
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  #35  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 9:42 PM
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I believe the idea that it would be hard to attract top talent to Ottawa is a non issue. Ottawa's far from the issue, top talent is. Every recruiter everywhere will tell you that it's hard to find.

In fact, it may be easier for a company like Amazon to recruit here than in other spots due to the lower competition. Shopify's CEO once cited its location in Ottawa as a competitive advantage for a variety of reasons including this one.
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  #36  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2017, 11:31 PM
Luker Luker is offline
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I believe the idea that it would be hard to attract top talent to Ottawa is a non issue. Ottawa's far from the issue, top talent is. Every recruiter everywhere will tell you that it's hard to find.

In fact, it may be easier for a company like Amazon to recruit here than in other spots due to the lower competition. Shopify's CEO once cited its location in Ottawa as a competitive advantage for a variety of reasons including this one.
It's true, no city is abundant with available top talent,.. there is always more demand then supply for them, which makes Ottawa's gross lack of them an issue. Ottawa per capita has tons of IT talent, similarly we have the most PHDs per capita (in Canada), the problem here is scale.

Yes Ottawa and it's talent was and is advantageous when setting up a shop for a few hundred employees growing towards 1000. However, convincing tens of thousands of top talent employees to migrate to Ottawa and it's cold winters when they have comparable jobs is the current problem to me.

Average Jan low of -14.5 and avg high of -5 is just too much for many despite our fondness for our city. As we all know, many of our friends and family members who have left Ottawa have often done so with the weather a major consideration. Toronto for instance has an avg low of -6 and high of -1

And while competition is fierce for talent in any city, at least it is within the city in large cities and just case of convincing people to change jobs or hire new talent (grads and immigrants) or available talent (without work). As opposed to convince someone to move across the country.

Let's hope it does happen, it would essentially have a such a large positive economic impact we would all be benefactors in one way or another.
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  #37  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 3:22 AM
Robedav Robedav is offline
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Originally Posted by citydwlr View Post
There was also an interesting article on Slate:

Your City Will Lose the Contest for Amazon's New HQ

It doesn't mention Ottawa, but I particularly liked this quote:
Quote:
...what may ultimately be more consequential is where Amazon decides to locate its headquarters within those cities. For all the talk about millennials abandoning car ownership, the biggest determinant of transportation choice is job location. In Seattle, Amazon has established an urban corporate paradigm that serves as a desperately needed counterpoint to the suburban campuses of Apple, Facebook, and Google in Silicon Valley. Amazon reports that 55 percent of Seattle employees walk, bike or use mass transit to get to work.
Maybe if the city, the NCC, and Mr. Melnyk got together and offered up part of the Lebreton Flats redevelopment to Amazon, Ottawa might have a chance.
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  #38  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 8:06 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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This would definitely be a game changer for Ottawa. If they do choose somewhere outside of the US, I think Ottawa or Toronto are the best options.

I would love to see an urban campus proposed for either Bayview/Lebreton or Hurdman. To me, those locations are central, begging for redevelopment, on several rapid transit lines and close or connected to other modes of transportation (like the 417, VIA train, YOW).
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  #39  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 10:58 PM
Luker Luker is offline
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http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/reevely-dont-let-amazon-fever-cost-us-billions

Reevely: Don't let Amazon fever cost us billions

Ottawa has begun plotting its pitch to Amazon to put a giant new headquarters here, a task Mayor Jim Watson concedes might be beyond us.

“I’m realistic. This is an uphill battle for us. I’m not thinking it’s anywhere near a slam dunk. But my understanding is they said ‘North America’ and they meant ‘North America’,” Watson said, anticipating the first conference call Wednesday of the city’s “Amazon task force.”

A week ago, Amazon.com Inc. announced its intention to open a major office, the equal of its Seattle home base, in another North American city, and invited governments to submit bids. That a company could treat governments as supplicants like that is a sign of just how gigantic a force Amazon is. It’s best known as an online retailer. It’s also the world’s biggest cloud-computing vendor, supplying servers in its monster data centres. It popularized e-books. It sells its own line of consumer electronics. It produces and streams TV shows. It just bought Whole Foods.

Its stock is worth $475 billion. It’s turning profits for the first time after years of not doing so only because every time it was about to, chief executive Jeff Bezos barged the company into some new industry. Amazon is so big it’s effectively filled up Seattle and needs to colonize somewhere else.

The key question is how much money governments are willing to throw at Amazon to attract it. Ontario cities aren’t allowed to subsidize businesses directly. Ottawa or Toronto could make a deal for land, build infrastructure and do other things around the edges, but straight-up payments are the province’s and federal government’s business.

In short, how many of the benefits of having Amazon here are we willing to give right back to Amazon?

“The province hasn’t decided what they’re going to offer,” Watson said, but it’ll be something. “They’ve offered the auto industry — and other industries — support, in terms of loans and grants, in the past.”

Premier Kathleen Wynne named Ed Clark, the former TD Group chief executive to whom she turns for high-profile business advice, to quarterback Ontario’s response.

“I had a very good conversation today with Ed Clark,” Watson said. “I let him know that my desire is to ensure that the province remains site-agnostic, so that they’re not picking one community over another, and he agreed with that.” So no assuming Toronto is the only possible Ontario destination.

An associate deputy minister in the finance ministry is in on the pitching, too, Watson said.

Because, of course, that’s where they keep the money. The obvious comparisons are to a $220-million subsidy Ontario gave networking-hardware maker Cisco to hire 1,700 people, and $264 million it gave videogame studio Ubisoft to hire 700 people. The payments, and the hires, are spread out over years. We love the “jobs of the future” here, though the auditor general has said the actual return in economic growth on those subsidies is all but impossible to determine.

Those payments average out to about $200,000 a job. Proportionate subsidies to Amazon would amount to $10 billion. It might not take quite that much — Wisconsin is luring a $10-billion, 13,000-job Foxconn screen factory with the promise of $3 billion in tax breaks — but that’s the league we’d be playing in. The provincial government’s “jobs and prosperity fund,” its main subsidy tool, only has $270 million a year of taxpayer cash to dole out. That used to seem like a lot.

But in the offing is this irresistible prize of a $5-billion construction project, a workforce of 50,000 well-paid employees and an entry on a list of high-tech centres alongside Seattle, Redmond, Cupertino, Menlo Park, Mountain View.

“It’s such an overwhelming prospect,” Watson said. Landing Amazon would be a big deal for any city; for one like Ottawa, it would be defining. However long the shot, everybody who can take one will. One plausible theory is Amazon already knows where it’s going — Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit, maybe — and is having a bidding war to get the best deal. Dozens of urban centres can meet Amazon’s stated requirements of a million-strong population, on-site mass transit, an international airport and ready access to a major highway, and they’re all dancing for Amazon’s board.

Ottawa gets onto the floor, barely. We hit the population count if we include Gatineau. We have an international airport, though a lot of international destinations require a hop to Toronto or Montreal first.

Watson argues the strength of Canada’s tech sector should make north-of-the-border bids appealing anyway. Ottawa’s growing expertise in self-driving vehicles might be a selling point. But our current tech workforce is about 77,000 people, so most of Amazon’s hypothetical new hires would have to move here.

Unless we somehow coughed up LeBreton Flats or CFB Rockcliffe (improbable, given all the planning that’s gone into both places), suitable land here would be in the suburbs. Assuming busways don’t turn Amazon’s crank, we’d have to built light rail to Kanata or Barrhaven much sooner than we’ve planned, or extend it deeper into Orléans than we intend.

Ottawa would have to redesign itself to make room and Ontario would have to remake its budget to pay for it. Amazon would be a heck of a prize but let’s keep our wits about us.

Last edited by Luker; Sep 13, 2017 at 11:38 PM. Reason: Title of article added
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  #40  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2017, 11:25 PM
BlackRedGold BlackRedGold is offline
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Originally Posted by Luker View Post
Ottawa gets onto the floor, barely. We hit the population count if we include Gatineau.
Such a stupid comment to put in the article. It's all about the population in the metro area so why would Gatineau not count?
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