Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by elly63

How many games have TFC sold out? Permanently adding more seats is going to hurt ticket scarcity

Then don't make the seats permanent. This isn't rocket science.

Originally Posted by elly63

Do you honestly think anyone outside the GTA would go up in arms if they selected Edmonton over Toronto, or chose Montreal or Vancouver over Toronto, seriously?

Yes. Major sports events are rarely seen as legitimate if they're not taking place in the country's centre of entertainment/business/everything. You put games in Edmonton instead of Toronto and every other country in the world is going "Huh? Where?" It would be the equivalent of Spain playing all its matches in Seville or France in Bordeaux

Originally Posted by elly63

Then why would we choose a stadium in Toronto that seats 22k less?

It doesn't have to be 22k seats less if we add temporary/permanent seating. This isn't difficult to wrap ones mind around.

Again, Canada shouldn't be selecting stadiums simply because they're big. The US is going to win the big stadium Olympics every time, Canada should be focusing on using specialized stadiums to provide a counter balance to the mammoth buildings they'll be using down south.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Yes. Major sports events are rarely seen as legitimate if they're not taking place in the country's centre of entertainment/business/everything. You put games in Edmonton instead of Toronto and every other country in the world is going "Huh? Where?" It would be the equivalent of Spain playing all its matches in Seville or France in Bordeaux

Or having an Olympics in Montreal, Calgary or Vancouver. Are you friggin' serious? Do you honestly think Toronto's "cachet" for lack of a better word is so much greater than the other cities. That mon ami is truly laughable. Using your excuse, wouldn't people be wondering why games weren't being played in the capital? Nobody outside Canada cares.

Originally Posted by JHikka

Again, Canada shouldn't be selecting stadiums simply because they're big. The US is going to win the big stadium Olympics every time, Canada should be focusing on using specialized stadiums to provide a counter balance to the mammoth buildings they'll be using down south.

That's the criteria we use to pick our cities? I guess that makes Regina a shoo-in.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Yes. Major sports events are rarely seen as legitimate if they're not taking place in the country's centre of entertainment/business/everything. You put games in Edmonton instead of Toronto and every other country in the world is going "Huh? Where?" It would be the equivalent of Spain playing all its matches in Seville or France in Bordeaux
.

In all honesty though, among other things, Seville had this barber named Figaro and a lady named Carmen to contribute to its global renown, and Bordeaux has a somewhat famous wine that most of us have tasted at least once (often a few more times than once).

Edmonton has none of that... though this says more about Canada than it does about Edmonton. Before anyone gets excited.

[bkd]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Major sports events are rarely seen as legitimate if they're not taking place in the country's centre of entertainment/business/everything.

Did you just make that up? What a load of pure unadulterated garbage.

On a global scale. Toronto is pretty underwhelming compared to other world class cities so it's not as if a city like Vancouver or Montreal or others would make a significant difference when it comes to Canadian cities.

[esquire]

Someone should inform the soccer authorities that the 2002 World Cup was illegitimate since the final was played in Yokohama which is not the Korean or Japanese centre of entertainment/business/everything

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Someone should inform the soccer authorities that the 2002 World Cup was illegitimate since the final was played in Yokohama which is not the Korean or Japanese centre of entertainment/business/everything

I was just going to say this. Yokohama is kind of a Hamilton-type city to Tokyo (Toronto) if we were to describe the relationship.

I don't believe any of the WC games in 2002 were played in Tokyo.

The 2014 World Cup final was played in Rio de Janeiro which is between a third to 40% smaller than Brazil's biggest city, Sao Paulo. (Though SP did get some games, but not the final.)

I still think having Canada host the (entire) WC and having the final in Edmonton over Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver is too much of a stretch, but anyone of the latter three hosting it wouldn't be much of head-scratcher for anyone on the planet.

[esquire]

The reality is that Canada and Mexico are basically going to be playing Rocky to the USA's Bullwinkle in all of this. The focus will be entirely on the USA. Their top cities will be involved. No one outside this country cares whether Toronto or Edmonton will be hosting Canada vs. Sao Tome and Principe.

[elly63]

Is there some common ground here? I can fight all day if people want but maybe it might be more constructive to find a few points of agreement.

In my opinion, five games for two cities is too much and doesn't shine the light on more of the country. I was going to post in favour of three cities but now I'm arguing with myself about why not four. Two cities host three games and two cities host two.

I don't think anyone agrees with me about my previous post that wouldn't it be a great opportunity for Calgary to get a new stadium as part of this and an Olympic bid (and possibly a U of C involvement) but I would love to see it happen.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

The reality is that Canada and Mexico are basically going to be playing Rocky to the USA's Bullwinkle in all of this. The focus will be entirely on the USA. Their top cities will be involved. No one outside this country cares whether Toronto or Edmonton will be hosting Canada vs. Sao Tome and Principe.

Yup

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

The reality is that Canada and Mexico are basically going to be playing Rocky to the USA's Bullwinkle in all of this. The focus will be entirely on the USA. Their top cities will be involved. No one outside this country cares whether Toronto or Edmonton will be hosting Canada vs. Sao Tome and Principe.

Correct but that decision is likely to be made *inside* this country. So that almost certainly means (if we're talking about a choice between those two cities) Toronto over Edmonton.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

Someone should inform the soccer authorities that the 2002 World Cup was illegitimate since the final was played in Yokohama which is not the Korean or Japanese centre of entertainment/business/everything

The 1974 WC was played in Munich, Germany's third largest city. Maybe we should look at if the finals are played in the country's jazziest or most iconic stadium instead of the city ie 1994 Rose Bowl = iconic

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Correct but that decision is likely to be made *inside* this country. So that almost certainly means (if we're talking about a choice between those two cities) Toronto over Edmonton.

Well that depends on how you want to define it, resources it goes to Toronto, facility it goes to Edmonton. Also each city has to put in a bid, what if Toronto puts in a crappy bid on the cheap and Edmonton a fantastic bid.

If this is on the level and not predetermined there's a lot to it.

[osmo]

Neither Vancouver, Edmonton, Montreal or Toronto would qualify to host a final if you had it today. Unless Toronto had something new it would get skipped over outright. BC Place capacity is far too small, little ability to boost it. Edmonton is too isolated (we on the fourm keep forgetting that it is hard to get to certain places, nobody wants 3 flights to get to Edmonton, especially when they would have to transfer from the Big 3 anyhow), stadium is big but old.

The Big O is the only Canadian facility that gets close to FIFA capacity requirements; and in saying all that, couldn't host either, but with a renovation it would be fine.

Azteca or a numerous number of American facilities could host a final today if it were forced too.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by osmo

Neither Vancouver, Edmonton, Montreal or Toronto would qualify to host a final if you had it today. Unless Toronto had something new it would get skipped over outright. BC Place capacity is far too small, little ability to boost it. Edmonton is too isolated (we on the fourm keep forgetting that it is hard to get to certain places, nobody wants 3 flights to get to Edmonton, especially when they would have to transfer from the Big 3 anyhow), stadium is big but old.

Well, we're not looking at hosting any finals or playoff games so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

As for Edmonton being isolated how were they able to have a Commonwealth Games, Universiade, WWC and IAAF which IIRC was the second largest multisport event in the world (behind the Olympics, not counting the WC) I am going on memory here so don't write it in stone.

As for Commonwealth stadium being old: Azteca, Maricana, Rose Bowl, Berlin Olympic Stadium, where do we stop.

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by elly63

How many games have TFC sold out? Permanently adding more seats is going to hurt ticket scarcity

It was to show the dimensions of a soccer field within a football field had you have looked at the photo.

Do you honestly think anyone outside the GTA would go up in arms if they selected Edmonton over Toronto, or chose Montreal or Vancouver over Toronto, seriously?

Then why would we choose a stadium in Toronto that seats 22k less?

Elly, its a moot point, Rogers is not going to give up Skydome and send the Blue Jays on a 1 month + road trip, if its in Toronto, its BMO as the only option.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by elly63

Well, we're not looking at hosting any finals or playoff games so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

As for Edmonton being isolated how were they able to have a Commonwealth Games, Universiade, WWC and IAAF which IIRC was the second largest multisport event in the world (behind the Olympics, not counting the WC) I am going on memory here so don't write it in stone.

As for Commonwealth stadium being old: Azteca, Maricana, Rose Bowl, Berlin Olympic Stadium, where do we stop.

Are you seriously comparing a games held within a city to a World Cup soccer match that takes place across a nation (or in this case, a continent.) What is with SSP and these constant apples to oranges comparisons? No one is saying Edmonton can't host. It is however isolated geographical from the rest of the continent. Given it's the World Cup, I'm sure that will matter.

Commonwealth Stadium is just large. I don't understand how BMO (temporarily expanded or permanent) is so far beneath (an embarrassment to Canada) in comparison to Commonwealth.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by elly63

Or having an Olympics in Montreal, Calgary or Vancouver. Are you friggin' serious? Do you honestly think Toronto's "cachet" for lack of a better word is so much greater than the other cities.

Yes, I do. Perhaps not Vancouver or Montreal but definitely Edmonton, which was your implication ("nobody outside Canada would care [if it was Edmonton or Toronto]"). I could understand CSA's decision if Vancouver and Montreal received matches over Toronto, but if Regina/Edmonton/Calgary were getting matches at the expense (the key word here, before i'm lynched) of Toronto i'd be a bit concerned.

Originally Posted by elly63

Using your excuse, wouldn't people be wondering why games weren't being played in the capital? Nobody outside Canada cares.

I'm sure people wonder why all the big matches in Brazil were in Rio or Sao Paulo and not in Brasilia, or why all the big matches in the US are in LA instead of DC.

Honestly, if i'm looking to travel for a World Cup in, say, Germany, i'm hoping they have matches in Munich and Köln so I don't have to drag my sorry ass to Freiburg or Leipzig.
If i'm looking to travel for a World Cup in England i'm hoping they have matches in London and Manchester so I don't have to drag my sorry ass to Sheffield or Portsmouth.
If i'm looking to travel for a World Cup in Canada i'm hoping they have matches in Toronto and Vancouver so I don't have to drag my sorry ass to Edmonton or Ottawa.

Originally Posted by bkd

On a global scale. Toronto is pretty underwhelming compared to other world class cities so it's not as if a city like Vancouver or Montreal or others would make a significant difference when it comes to Canadian cities.

If Toronto is underwhelming on a global scale i'd hate to hear what you think Edmonton is on the same global scale.

Besides, we'll be coming off back-to-back World Cups in Russia & Qatar. Toronto (or anywhere in Canada) will seem like paradise compared to either for the traveling WC fan.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Commonwealth Stadium is just large. I don't understand how BMO (temporarily expanded or permanent) is so far beneath (an embarrassment to Canada) in comparison to Commonwealth.

Commonwealth has more seats than BMO so clearly it should host matches instead

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Elly, its a moot point, Rogers is not going to give up Skydome and send the Blue Jays on a 1 month + road trip, if its in Toronto, its BMO as the only option.

Hasn't Rogers Centre been reconfigured so that a non-baseball setup is essentially impossible? Something about making seats permanently fixed, anyway.

[WhipperSnapper]

Let's not lump the Winter Olympics with the Summer Olympics. It may be commonplace in Canada but people are going to look at you funny just about anywhere else. They are beneath Toronto. Heck, they are beneath Vancouver. This isn't just for recent times where nobody wants to host either. Just look at the list of all host cities.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Commonwealth has more seats than BMO so clearly it should host matches instead

Apparently that's all that matters.

BC Place looks great with the roof renos. Olympic Stadium is the peak of 1960s futurism. They're still more retro than flashy and new. It's unlikely they will be remember by global audiences in comparison to the post post modern cathedrals to football to the south of us. I don't get the hang up on how BMO place looks or may look in 2026.

[Acajack]

Does FIFA require the stands to be mostly covered at WC stadiums or did I dream that up?