Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[elly63]

Originally Posted by franco401

if skydome can't happen, commonwealth is a perfectly acceptable fallback.

fyp

[esquire]

For the record I think a temporarily expanded BMO could work if FIFA is OK with having a bunch of temp seats, but the issue to me is why would you want to if you could have access to Skydome instead?

That said, I don't care that much either way... it's not like I'm writing to my MP over this issue. I'm sure Toronto could manage just fine even with BMO.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by esquire

For the record I think a temporarily expanded BMO could work if FIFA is OK with having a bunch of temp seats, but the issue to me is why would you want to if you could have access to Skydome instead?

That said, I don't care that much either way... it's not like I'm writing to my MP over this issue. I'm sure Toronto could manage just fine even with BMO.

Why wouldn't they be ok with it?

They were OK with them in Brazil in 2014

[elly63]

Can we all agree to call the FIFA "rule" for permanent seating a red herring. Even though it reared its ugly head again in the "Winnipeg is out" article, that argument has more holes in it than a piece of Swiss cheese. Hmm sounds like I'm going in the deli business.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

^you don't think that Edmonton/Commonwealth will be thrown into this mix?

IF Canada was going to have more than 3 host cities, I would have said yes. That will most likely not be the case. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Canada ends up with only 2 host cities. They would be Vancouver and Toronto, in all likelihood.

Originally Posted by elly63

The TFC people are saying that BMO is the best soccer specific stadium in the country. A few points on that, one, is it the best in a race of what, two horses (Saputo)? Is BMO actually now still classified as soccer specific, whatever that means.

No it isn't. The field is slightly longer now to be able to accommodate the CFL. But that doesn't matter really. BMO field was Canada's first soccer specific stadium. It's been modified since then, and would get the nod by FIFA ahead of Skydome if you ask me.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

It's quite simple. The stands were designed and are still designed around a soccer pitch; not baseball or football.

Technically speaking, BMO field is no longer soccer specific. The field has been extended to accommodate the CFL. This is why there are no stands to the north. None of this matters for FIFA of course, as it is still a stadium designed for soccer first and then football.

Today, Canada has one soccer specific stadium, and it's Saputo.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

It's much easier to expand BMO to 40,000 and harmonize the exterior to make it look prettier and impressive for the 1 minute of airtime.

I agree. Toronto should be a host city, and BMO Field will be chosen, not Skydome.

Originally Posted by esquire

For the record I think a temporarily expanded BMO could work if FIFA is OK with having a bunch of temp seats

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Why wouldn't they be ok with it?

They were OK with them in Brazil in 2014

Exactly ! FIFA tends to bend the rules a bit as long as it serves their needs.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Technically speaking, BMO field is no longer soccer specific. The field has been extended to accommodate the CFL, meaning a portion of the stands are too far from the pitch. None of this matters for FIFA of course, it is still a stadium designed for soccer first and then football.

Of course it isn't soccer specific that's the whole joke of it. Again why would FIFA care whether it was soccer first or last. No one seems to want to comment about how, AFAIK, none of the American stadiums will be soccer specific.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Canada ends up with only 2 host cities. They would be Vancouver and Toronto, in all likelihood.

Why, when Montreal needs and will get sooner or later an upgrade, a good excuse for federal money.

Also politically, I can't see Montreal getting left out, and five games each for two cities is too much not to farm out a little bit and show some of the rest of the country to the world.

Also it would be hard to believe that if Coderre is still around during the bidding process, that a former federal minister of sport would allow Montreal to be left out of the show.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by elly63

Why, when Montreal needs and will get sooner or later an upgrade, a good excuse for federal money.

Also politically, I can't see Montreal getting left out, and five games for two cities is too much not to farm out a little bit and show some of the rest of the country to the world.

Maybe Vancouver and Montreal. But i dont think Canada or FIFA can discard Toronto and BMO Field. And there has to be a Western city as a host as well. In the event there are only 2 host cities chosen for Canada, Vancouver is a guarantee, and then it has to be Toronto. Politics will get a back seat for this one, AFAIC.

Montreal will get a team or two based there for training. Saputo Stadium and Centre Nutrilait are ideal for this.

Anything is possible however.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Maybe Vancouver and Montreal. But i dont think Canada or FIFA can discard Toronto and BMO Field. And there has to be a Western city as a host as well. In the event there are only 2 host cities chosen for Canada, Vancouver is a guarantee, and then it has to be Toronto. Politics will get a back seat for this one, AFAIC.

Montreal will get a team or two based there for training. Saputo Stadium and Centre Nutrilait are ideal for this.

Anything is possible however.

They're not going to have a team train in Montreal and play in Toronto or elsewhere. Nobody outside of the GTA would care if Toronto was left out. They weren't in the WWC and the sky didn't fall.

You're saying politics will take a back seat but we need Toronto and a team from the west? In the entire history of our country Quebec is the ultimate political mover and shaker.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

They're not going to have a team train in Montreal and play in Toronto or elsewhere. Nobody outside of the GTA would care if Toronto was left out. They weren't in the WWC and the sky didn't fall.

You're saying politics will take a back seat but we need Toronto and a team from the west? In the entire history of our country Quebec is the ultimate political mover and shaker.

I also don't understand that *the only thing* that will put the WC in Montreal is politics, but that we *need* to have WC games somewhere in the West. Isn't that politics too?

[elly63]

Here's how I see it. It'll likely be three cities: Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver with Edmonton having an outside chance. I am basing that on the measurables of what it will take to host.

BC Place will look great and I am hoping that the long history of boondoggles with the Big O will be corrected once and for all by that time. To me it is their best and likely last chance to finally get it right like what happened to BC Place.

It is my opinion that BMO would be the "ugly sister" in this but that is just my opinion. I'd rather see Commonwealth than BMO.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Franco401

Skydome is the better option in my opinion but I have no delusions about any perfect venues. I just think the problems of Skydome (turf, Jays) don't outweigh the problems of BMO (size, amenities, location). If Skydome can't happen, BMO is a perfectly acceptable fallback.

Fair enough point. I don't see why people have reservations about a stadium's size when we have nine years to add 10K seats to a stadium which has been temporarily expanded to that size before. The tournament isn't being held tomorrow, saying it won't work because of its size today seems short-sighted.

Originally Posted by elly63

Adding 10k seats to BMO is gonna be free?

Adding 10K seats to BMO serves a feasible purpose beyond 2026 for both CSA and for TFC/events at BMO.

Originally Posted by elly63

Boy, are the Americans ever gonna look Mickey Mouse judging by the horror of THF here but then again their fields are shorter. But they`re still not a SSS as vital as that has to be.

THF isn't a potential stadium for selection so i'm not exactly sure why you're bringing it up.

Originally Posted by elly63

Nobody outside of the GTA would care if Toronto was left out.

Ridiculous line of thinking. It's Canada's largest city and arguably its best city for soccer. It has two viable options for hosting so neglecting to choose either of them would have to take a pretty impressive set of circumstances.

Originally Posted by elly63

No one seems to want to comment about how, AFAIK, none of the American stadiums will be soccer specific.

The US has a plethora of football stadiums to choose from that go above and beyond what is required to host WC matches. Why would the US select SSS in Columbus, Kansas City, or Portland (all too small to host) when they can select 80K NFL stadiums in major markets instead?

The US has an almost mirror'd problem that Canada does in regards to SSS & WC:
Canada: Football stadiums in country's not largest cities, mostly large enough to host / SS stadiums in country's largest cities, not large enough to host.
US: Football stadiums in country's largest cities, large enough to host / SS stadiums in country's not largest cities, not large enough to host.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Adding 10K seats to BMO serves a feasible purpose beyond 2026 for both CSA and for TFC/events at BMO.

How many games have TFC sold out? Permanently adding more seats is going to hurt ticket scarcity

Originally Posted by JHikka

THF isn't a potential stadium for selection so i'm not exactly sure why you're bringing it up.

It was to show the dimensions of a soccer field within a football field had you have looked at the photo.

Originally Posted by JHikka

Ridiculous line of thinking. It's Canada's largest city and arguably its best city for soccer. It has two viable options for hosting so neglecting to choose either of them would have to take a pretty impressive set of circumstances.

Do you honestly think anyone outside the GTA would go up in arms if they selected Edmonton over Toronto, or chose Montreal or Vancouver over Toronto, seriously?

Originally Posted by JHikka

The US has a plethora of football stadiums to choose from that go above and beyond what is required to host WC matches. Why would the US select SSS in Columbus, Kansas City, or Portland (all too small to host) when they can select 80K NFL stadiums in major markets instead?

Then why would we choose a stadium in Toronto that seats 22k less?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

How many games have TFC sold out? Permanently adding more seats is going to hurt ticket scarcity

Adding 10k seats to BMO to bring capacity over 40k would make it significantly outsized compared to every other SSS in MLS.

Of course it's entirely possible that this could get done for the WC and TFC would end up with a significantly larger stadium.

But if TFC reaches a point where it actually needs a 40k+ stadium it would obviously at that point be one of the league's flagship teams.

Even in megacities like NYC and LA, MLS clubs have deliberately built SSSs for themselves that are in the 25-30k range, and everything points to them intending to stay there for a while.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Ridiculous line of thinking. It's Canada's largest city and arguably its best city for soccer. It has two viable options for hosting so neglecting to choose either of them would have to take a pretty impressive set of circumstances.
.

Both those stadiums do have their shortcomings, however. Neither is a no-brainer and there would be much work to be done in both cases. (This is also true for Montreal BTW.)

Obviously these shortcomings are extremely unlikely to be a fatal blow for Toronto's chances at hosting. I'm positive they will get some games.

[osmo]

"Soccer Specific" can mean a bunch of things. To the amount of locker rooms, rooms for the refs, field space, etc. FIFA has a ranking of elite options to crap options that just meet the minimum requirements. I don't think Canada has more than 5 stadiums that would even get any sort of ranking, just because you can plop Ina soccer pitch does not mean you can actually host high level soccer. For the one off game it is fine, but for a tournament or high profile games there are things FIFa expects. To then say BMO Field isn't soccer Specific is silly as it was built for soccer in the first place. There is a different de between a soccer stadium that hosts football versus the opposite. In America, what tends to happen is that there facilities, the better ones, are over built. Extra Locker rooms and areas that can host all the stuff soccer would need.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Guys - let's just forget about BMO as a World Cup venue.

The SSP Canada page has spoken.

It's gonna be embarrassing.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Guys - let's just forget about BMO as a World Cup venue. The SSP Canada page has spoken. It's gonna be embarrassing.

Glad we can agree on something.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by osmo

FIFA has a ranking of elite options to crap options that just meet the minimum requirements. I don't think Canada has more than 5 stadiums that would even get any sort of ranking, just because you can plop Ina soccer pitch does not mean you can actually host high level soccer.

Well that is about the same amount of bullshit as your oft mentioned trolling Canadian stadiums are crap routine.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Can we just rename this thread "Elly knows everything about every sport and every sports arena / stadium in Canada .....

(just ask him) ..... and if you disagree with him you hate Canada".