I keep hearing "Toronto is coming close to Chicago" but I dont see it

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by kolchak

Thats a huge district. Impressive row of high rises. But its a large statistical area. Is it subdivided?

I am not familiar enough with American census terms to understand this question.

[koops65]

I don't either... but the photo shows North York City Centre and a part of North York beyond that. North York became part of Metro Toronto in 1954.

[softee]

Just to clarify for kolchak, North York Centre's official neighbourhood name is Willowdale, and it's part of Toronto's city proper (as is all of North York).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willowdale,_Toronto

[softee]

These are the 3 densest census tracts in North York Centre as of the 2011 census.

Northtown block, 52,763 p/km2 (5350307.06)
Yonge and Empress, east side, 45,372 p/km2 (5350307.03)
Yonge and Sheppard NE Corner, 41,019 p/km2 (5350307.04)

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by softee

These are the 3 densest census tracts in North York Centre as of the 2011 census.

Northtown block, 52,763 p/km2 (5350307.06)
Yonge and Empress, east side, 45,372 p/km2 (5350307.03)
Yonge and Sheppard NE Corner, 41,019 p/km2 (5350307.04)

Not really the right comparative statistic.

In comparing Chicago's Neighborhood Districts (there are 77) with Toronto's (44) Wards I have found a pretty good indicator.

Edgewater, Chicago, for example has 50+ thousand residents with a density of 13,000+ per sq kilometer.

[kolchak]

Toronto Ward density chart -

[kolchak]

Interestingly the density is very similar between the two cities. Accounting for the fact that Chicago's districts are smaller and the denser ones statistically should have higher density than the other Wards in Toronto, its close.

Toronto has more high rises and smaller homes and Chicago more mid rise - that is in the two cities more dense areas. Different build forms.

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by softee

Just to clarify for kolchak, North York Centre's official neighbourhood name is Willowdale, and it's part of Toronto's city proper (as is all of North York).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willowdale,_Toronto

That was very helpful. Thank you

[softee]

There are 140 neighbourhoods that are officially recognized by the city of Toronto:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_neighbourhoods_in_Toronto

[kolchak]

I am trying to find comparable statistical samples. I saw that figure but 140 was double 77 and 44 was a bit more than half. Either way I think the metrics are fairly easy to digest.

[kolchak]

Mid rise and low rise density in the West Loop neighborhood. There is a lot of this in Chicago and it may be partially rebuilt but the new construction conforms to the footprint and usually with more units. It's just different than Toronto. Perhaps in the future Toronto will continue to outpace Chicago in terms of high rises and tall buildings but the central city in Chicago should also continue to grow. As I've said I would like to go back to Toronto someday to explore it again.


YoChicago

[isaidso]

Will most of the low/mid rise neighbourhoods in Chicago remain so? Are there specific low/mid rise neighbourhoods that have been green lighted for re-development as a high rise neighbourhood?

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Will most of the low/mid rise neighbourhoods in Chicago remain so? Are there specific low/mid rise neighbourhoods that have been green lighted for re-development as a high rise neighbourhood?

It's actually a constant battle between developers and neighborhood associations.

Most new high rise developments are in the areas near Downtown Chicago. Here is an example of what we have in terms of redevelopment of an older area - River North which has embraced higher buildings. Chicago had a ring of industrial use land around its central core that has been the main source of land for building up - lots of land. Areas like River North are the exception.

[kolchak]

Interesting comparison - includes completed & under construction. At no point is the equivalently ranked building (44 to 44 for example) in Toronto taller than its counterpart in Chicago (roof or highest occupied floor used as height measure.)


Toronto/Chicago tallest 15


Toronto/Chicago 16-30


Toronto/Chicago 31-45


Toronto/Chicago 46-60


Toronto/Chicago 61-75


Toronto/Chicago 76-92

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by koops65

Yes, we all know Chicago has more supertalls, and more skyscrapers overall, but I said high-rises... no proposals either, just built and U/C:

Toronto - 2370
http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=76979071

Chicago - 1223
http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=76979097

Toronto has almost twice as many as Chicago.

Just saying...

The entire difference in total number of high rises is in buildings less than 75M.

Originally Posted by Kamuix

when it comes to buildings between 50 and 150 meters Toronto has a lot more

- "a lot more." Ehh not so fast. Toronto has way more buildings between 25 and 75 meters but between 75 and 150M Toronto has 522 and Chicago 487. Between 125M and 150M Chicago has more - 77 to 72 (including under construction.)

Tallying all buildings over 75M (built AND under construction) and Chicago actually also has a few more than Toronto:

[kolchak]

Also as of right now Chicago has three 250M + under construction and Toronto has Number One Bloor.

Toronto does have a bevy of 200M+ towers already rising. Site prep is starting in Chicago on a few as well.

I did include all under construction projects in the numbers above.

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by isaidso

That said, its human nature to compare. Perhaps the only city I've been to that doesn't do that is New York. Even in London, they're continually comparing how they stack up to New York ....and to a lesser extent Paris. They do more of that than Torontonians do imo.

Haha. I concur. You never hear the phrase "New York is a world class city."

[koops65]

The pace of construction in Toronto hasn't slowed down much... this year there will be lots of shovels hitting the ground.

304 metres - The One
238 metres - Bay Park Centre I
231 metres - 23 Spadina I
217 metres - One Yonge 3
202 metres - 23 Spadina II
172 metres - The Well Office
168 metres - 31A Parliament
165 metres - 10 St. Mary
157 metres - 16 York
153 metres - The Well Residential 1

In addition to those towers, there are over a dozen buildings in various stages of hearings at the OMB, and a bunch of them may start up as soon as a decision is reached. Two of the towers on the list above are in that category in fact. Also, other towers have been in sales for some time now and may start construction at any time as well. I would expect 15 or 20 150+ metre towers to begin construction this year.

[Beedok]

Seriously though Toronto should compare itself with American cities closer in size like Dallas, Miami, Philadelphia, etc. And other cities in the world, like Santiago, Madrid or Kuala Lumpur.

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by koops65

The pace of construction in Toronto hasn't slowed down much... other towers have been in sales for some time now and may start construction at any time as well.

"Hasn't slowed much..." - that sounds like a real estate agent's spin.

If Toronto has a market decline these proposals (and they are just that - proposals) will vanish like mist on a hot morning.

Toronto may already be in a bubble from what I have read. Most of the new towers going up there are condo - and that's a bad sign. Chicago is building office towers as well as mixed use, hotels and apartments and then lastly condos.

If Toronto starts building skyscrapers clustered around downtown that are for working and multi use, then thats a healthier market and adds more life to the city center than the typical Toronto North York condo. I think that is coming but likely down the pipeline some.