[Halifax] The Roy (1650 Granville) | 71 M | 22 FL | Completed

[Keith P.]

The exposed side of the Johnston Building looks much improved, as does the formerly exposed side of the old building on Barrington that had an old sign painted on the side of it that was revealed when the Roy was demolished.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The exposed side of the Johnston Building looks much improved, as does the formerly exposed side of the old building on Barrington that had an old sign painted on the side of it that was revealed when the Roy was demolished.

Did they restore the sign? Sounds neat. Anyone have a photo?

I still wish they'd restore the Morse's Tea sign. In Boston, there is a bylaw that you cannot destroy/remove historical signs like that.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Did they restore the sign? Sounds neat. Anyone have a photo?

I still wish they'd restore the Morse's Tea sign. In Boston, there is a bylaw that you cannot destroy/remove historical signs like that.

Boston among lots of cities. This is why i always find it perplexing when you hear people talk about Halifax being over-run with restrictive heritage regularions. Nothing could be further from the truth,

Anyway, there was a story in the paper a few weeks ago about this--a B.C.-based tech company is setting up a Halifax office and they say they're going to restore the sign as it was.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Boston among lots of cities. This is why i always find it perplexing when you hear people talk about Halifax being over-run with restrictive heritage regularions. Nothing could be further from the truth,

It's worth noting that the special interest groups advocate for what is best for them in isolation, not for what is most fair or best for the city. The media in Halifax tend to simply parrot back what special interest groups say. Developers don't want any regulation on their own projects (although they like other developers to be regulated) so they complain about how hard it is to do business in Halifax.

The "we just can't afford these fancy things like they can in the big cities" angle also plays really well there (see: the debate over having normal hoardings like in most other places vs. chain link fences).

If the system were balanced I think we would still hear some complaining from developers and some complaining from (real) heritage advocates and NIMBYs. That's the steady state that HRM council should be working toward. The perfect world where everybody is happy and has no complaints is unattainable because there are trade-offs between different parties.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Did they restore the sign? Sounds neat. Anyone have a photo?

It was in the thread:




They covered up the old formerly hidden sidewall containing the remains of the sign as it was missing sheathing and was very decayed.

Now if only the ugly back sides of those buildings on the next block south could be upgraded. That block has always been a real eyesore on Granville.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It was in the thread:




They covered up the old formerly hidden sidewall containing the remains of the sign as it was missing sheathing and was very decayed.

Now if only the ugly back sides of those buildings on the next block south could be upgraded. That block has always been a real eyesore on Granville.

The backside of the Green Lantern is just awful. Now that the Ghosns own it, I'm awaiting some kind of plan for the building, which I presume (hope) involves restoring it.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The backside of the Green Lantern is just awful. Now that the Ghosns own it, I'm awaiting some kind of plan for the building, which I presume (hope) involves restoring it.

Agree. There is still soooo much work that needs to be done to clean up the downtown.

Luckily, we seem to be headed in the right direction!

[Jonovision]

I think someone mentioned on twitter the other day that both the Green Lantern Building and the Discovery Centre redevelopment will be happening in tandem within the year.

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

They covered up the old formerly hidden sidewall containing the remains of the sign as it was missing sheathing and was very decayed.

Actually, the sign is still visible. But I presume it will be covered for good by the time the Roy rises a couple of stories above Barrington. I certainly haven't heard of any plans to preserve the sign or display it, on site or off.



According to our good friends at HTNS, the L. Higgins & Co. shoe store was located at what was then 83 Barrington Street from at least 1894 until 1898, when it moved next door into the new, ultra-modern Roy Building.

I am certain some heritage advocates of the day bemoaned that the Roy Bldg. was too big, too shady, and encouraged too much child-endangering horse traffic.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Honest question: why do people care about these signs so much? I personally find them a bit ugly / distracting.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Honest question: why do people care about these signs so much? I personally find them a bit ugly / distracting.

I think it's just a bit of a trend at the moment to want to see these sort of connections to the past.

Personal theory: The '90s/early 00s were a very polished, sleek time in terms of design and architecture. More recently, intentionally rustic and reclaimed stuff has become more popular as a reaction against that aesthetic.

I also think younger people who grew up in the 'burbs crave a bit of a grit, and evidence of things that were there before them--a sense of continuity. It's also why people like to be around old buildings: A neighbourhood comprised entirely of new buildings feel un-lived in, too simple, somehow, un-layered or inexperienced.

I always think of this place in my old neighbourhood in Toronto. It's a bar, called the Communist's Daughter, but you'd never know it, because they kept the old sign for the Portuguese snack bar that used to be in the building. This was one of the west end's first hipster-dive bars, established more than a decade ago now, and it exemplifies to a tee this aesthetic: old, vintage, reclaimed, perceived as more "authentic," or whatever.



Anyway, that's my complicated theory as to why people flip out for these signs.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Honest question: why do people care about these signs so much? I personally find them a bit ugly / distracting.

I didn't think it was that complicated.
- This sign has been hidden from public view for a century.
- Most people didn't know it existed as almost everybody who would have witnessed it in person is no longer alive.
- Suddenly, a sign which hasn't had meaning in a lifetime is in prominent display to the public, somehow surviving while so much around it has changed.

I don't understand why anybody wouldn't find that at least remotely interesting.

Soon it will be covered up, perhaps to be uncovered again in another 70 years when the "new" Roy is torn down. Your grandkids or their kids might find it interesting then.

[JET]

A few years back (maybe 5) I was on a bus going down Springarden, by the Lord Nelson they were taking down a sign for a cafe/bar, and putting up a sign for a new cafe/bar. There was the outline for an old bar name, The Victory Lounge. The next day it was covered over again. How many remember the Victory Lounge? I stayed at the Lord Nelson as a student, October to May, for a few years, single room for $275/month. I remember the bar sign.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I think it's just a bit of a trend at the moment to want to see these sort of connections to the past.

Personal theory: The '90s/early 00s were a very polished, sleek time in terms of design and architecture. More recently, intentionally rustic and reclaimed stuff has become more popular as a reaction against that aesthetic.

I also think younger people who grew up in the 'burbs crave a bit of a grit, and evidence of things that were there before them--a sense of continuity. It's also why people like to be around old buildings: A neighbourhood comprised entirely of new buildings feel un-lived in, too simple, somehow, un-layered or inexperienced.

I always think of this place in my old neighbourhood in Toronto. It's a bar, called the Communist's Daughter, but you'd never know it, because they kept the old sign for the Portuguese snack bar that used to be in the building. This was one of the west end's first hipster-dive bars, established more than a decade ago now, and it exemplifies to a tee this aesthetic: old, vintage, reclaimed, perceived as more "authentic," or whatever.



Anyway, that's my complicated theory as to why people flip out for these signs.

I think the reasons the Daughter kept the sign is different from preserving heritage signage.

The Daughter does it for hipster-esque reasons -- it lets them maintain the "authenticity" of the bar, that is' location is in an area that looks kitschy or like a bit of a dive, whereas in fact, its a fancy bar/cafe inside.

The reason I find the old 19th century sign interesting, and why they ought to be preserved, is more along the lines of what OldDartmouthMark suggests -- it's about preserving elements of the city's historic past. Those signs are very unique, and speak to Halifax's depth and history, that other newer cities don't have. So, it's an asset, and it's interesting, and it connects us to our past.

Suddenly, there's a sign appears, that is over a century old, we learn about the history of the business, the building, the area, and the people and history that go with it.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by JET

A few years back (maybe 5) I was on a bus going down Springarden, by the Lord Nelson they were taking down a sign for a cafe/bar, and putting up a sign for a new cafe/bar. There was the outline for an old bar name, The Victory Lounge. The next day it was covered over again. How many remember the Victory Lounge? I stayed at the Lord Nelson as a student, October to May, for a few years, single room for $275/month. I remember the bar sign.

The Victory Lounge was the bar at the Lord Nelson for years prior to the one that is there now.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I think it's just a bit of a trend at the moment to want to see these sort of connections to the past.

Personal theory: The '90s/early 00s were a very polished, sleek time in terms of design and architecture. More recently, intentionally rustic and reclaimed stuff has become more popular as a reaction against that aesthetic.

I also think younger people who grew up in the 'burbs crave a bit of a grit, and evidence of things that were there before them--a sense of continuity. It's also why people like to be around old buildings: A neighbourhood comprised entirely of new buildings feel un-lived in, too simple, somehow, un-layered or inexperienced.

I always think of this place in my old neighbourhood in Toronto. It's a bar, called the Communist's Daughter, but you'd never know it, because they kept the old sign for the Portuguese snack bar that used to be in the building. This was one of the west end's first hipster-dive bars, established more than a decade ago now, and it exemplifies to a tee this aesthetic: old, vintage, reclaimed, perceived as more "authentic," or whatever.

Anyway, that's my complicated theory as to why people flip out for these signs.

Right, I get those sort of signs being popular... Coca Cola and all that (although I find it tacky, personally).

But, white stencil on shingles? I mean, I can see the nostalgic value, but just because its old doesn't make it attractive or particularly interesting. Did the Higgins company survive or was iconic to Halifax history in some way?

Also, with the Morse's Tea example... wasn't it originally Jerusalem Warehouse in block lettering? So why isn't it restored to that writing if we are going so far as to restore things to their original state?

Are Wal-Mart signs going to be someday revered?

[worldlyhaligonian]

Anyway, sorry to derail the conversation...

I think the end result of this development is going to have a better street presence on all sides and its exciting that the maple is going up nearby.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The Victory Lounge was the bar at the Lord Nelson for years prior to the one that is there now.

But not where the current bar/pub is located, the Victory Lounge had it's entrance on Spring Garden Road, where the Fickle Frog is now. Was there a place called Brodsky's before the Fickle Frog?

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Anyway, sorry to derail the conversation...

I think the end result of this development is going to have a better street presence on all sides and its exciting that the maple is going up nearby.

No apology necessary. These are legit question. Often we don't ask *why* we should preserve this or that. For example, I find preserving Citadel viewplanes in all directions both pointless and unnecessary, but I think retaining/preserving certain buildings, older signage, etc, as more important and interesting.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by JET

But not where the current bar/pub is located, the Victory Lounge had it's entrance on Spring Garden Road, where the Fickle Frog is now. Was there a place called Brodsky's before the Fickle Frog?

Yes, the current place, "The Arms", used to be the hotel's dining room. I do not recall its name in that incarnation.

I don't recall Brodsky's. Are you sure it wasn't Gatsby's?