South Fraser Perimeter Road/Highway 17 Extension | Completed

[makr3trkr]

Originally Posted by malabrat

Yes. It would make total sense to have 17A to add/drop the 3rd lanes from widen part of highway 17. But as far as I can see its not the case.

Anyone been around this area that can report progress?

http://www.tsawwassenmills.ca/

"widening of Highway 17 to three lanes ... from east of 56th"

The way it is worded is ambiguous, but I have the feeling it's not going to connect, even though it would be simple. They could easily give advance warning of the 17A ramp.

[officedweller]

Is the 28th Ave underpass wide enough for 6 lanes?


http://media.bclocalnews.com/images/59371southdeltaSFPRaerialWEB.jpg

[makr3trkr]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Is the 28th Ave underpass wide enough for 6 lanes?


http://media.bclocalnews.com/images/59371southdeltaSFPRaerialWEB.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf1uu4qsNH8

Would be snug for the merge, but doable.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Delta has complained since day 1 that it is not an interchange on the SFPR and 91 connector. So they can both agree on upgrading it.

The province would't admit they screwed up. They would frame it that they are accelerating the upgrade timeline to alleviate congestion due to the tremendous and unprecedented success of the SFPR. LIBERAL 2017!

I think you might be onto something here... this is exactly how it would be spun, and announcing it leading up to the 2017 election would make sense... heh "Vote for us, and we'll finish our own project how it was originally supposed to be!" -- that and the huge GMT megaproject.

Blacktop politics anyone?

Anyways, I guess 6-laning of Hwy 17 by the mega mall will help, but once that thing is open, ferry dumps are going to get caught up waiting for the long left turn cycles out of that mall.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Mininari

...I guess 6-laning of Hwy 17 by the mega mall will help, but once that thing is open, ferry dumps are going to get caught up waiting for the long left turn cycles out of that mall.

...or when ferries arrive they'll alter the light timings to prioritize ferry traffic and mall patrons will be caught up. That makes more sense, because for several minutes there'll be a helluva lot more ferry traffic than mall traffic.

[officedweller]

Well, when Horseshoe Bay's parkade was built a few years back, they removed the underpass to access the Village and replaced it with a left turn traffic light that stopped off-loading ferry traffic within the terminal.

[Infrequent Poster]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Well, when Horseshoe Bay's parkade was built a few years back, they removed the underpass to access the Village and replaced it with a left turn traffic light that stopped off-loading ferry traffic within the terminal.

That light makes me red in the face. Sitting on the ferry waiting for them to lower the ramp so you can hit the "freeway" and get doing your shit. Nope you hit a red light as soon as you get to bottom of the ferry ramp. This to me personifies the term cheaping out.

[officedweller]

Come to think of it - I think there's a traffic light for off-loading vehicles at Tsawwassen terminal too.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Come to think of it - I think there's a traffic light for off-loading vehicles at Tsawwassen terminal too.

There is but is only for the ferry traffic being off loaded on the north side of the terminal. For the ferry from duke point.

I could be wrong but the duke point ferry and Swartz bay ferry don't arrive at the same time. So the light stays green for each ferry.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by cabotp

I could be wrong but the duke point ferry and Swartz bay ferry don't arrive at the same time. So the light stays green for each ferry.

The Spirit class vessels from Swartz Bay unload on the north side (I haven't been on any of other Swartz Bay vessels in a decade or more). The light is there because traffic debarking from the ferry has to go across the traffic lanes leading into the terminal. There's normally a lot more traffic exiting the ferry than arriving to board it, so the lights normally favour the offloading traffic (i.e., stay "green" longer for them). But I have no idea whether that's because they're deliberately timed that way or if it's the natural result of the amount of vehicles waiting as measured by inductive loops under the pavement.

[officedweller]

Yeah, we had the light when we off-loaded from the Swartz Bay ferry. From what I recall, offloading traffic crosses the road to the foot passenger drop-off / pick-up.

[makr3trkr]

https://delta.civicweb.net/Documents/DocumentList.aspx?ID=113801

Delta sent a report to the Ministry of Transport to assist with their 10 year plan.
Notably, they are asking for a new overpass for SFPR/Nordel Way traffic to access the Alex Fraser Bridge:

- Nordel Way Access Upgrades to Alex Fraser Bridge (Short-term Priority)
"Currently, access to the Alex Fraser Bridge from eastbound
Nordel Way is through a permissive left-turn. This turning movement experiences
significant delays and causes traffic congestion along Nordel Way. The addition of an
on-ramp from eastbound Nordel Way onto Highway 91 northbound would reduce
congestion and the potential for serious motor vehicle accidents."

-Highway 17 and 56 Street Interchange (Medium-term Priority)
"The Corporation of Delta is requesting the construction of an interchange at
56 Street and Highway 17, to avoid congestion, increase safety and accommodate the
future projected traffic.

- Highway 17 and Highway 91 Connector Interchange (Medium-term Priority)

- Highway 99 and Highway 17 Interchange (Long-term Priority)
"The recently constructed Highway 99 and Highway 17 Interchange has the capability to
be enhanced to allow for all directional movements. Delta supports the construction
of the additional on-ramps in conjunction with the George Massey Tunnel Replacement Project."

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

https://delta.civicweb.net/Documents/DocumentList.aspx?ID=113801

Delta sent a report to the Ministry of Transport to assist with their 10 year plan.
Notably, they are asking for a new overpass for SFPR/Nordel Way traffic to access the Alex Fraser Bridge:

- Nordel Way Access Upgrades to Alex Fraser Bridge (Short-term Priority)
"Currently, access to the Alex Fraser Bridge from eastbound
Nordel Way is through a permissive left-turn. This turning movement experiences
significant delays and causes traffic congestion along Nordel Way. The addition of an
on-ramp from eastbound Nordel Way onto Highway 91 northbound would reduce
congestion and the potential for serious motor vehicle accidents."

-Highway 17 and 56 Street Interchange (Medium-term Priority)
"The Corporation of Delta is requesting the construction of an interchange at
56 Street and Highway 17, to avoid congestion, increase safety and accommodate the
future projected traffic.

- Highway 17 and Highway 91 Connector Interchange (Medium-term Priority)

- Highway 99 and Highway 17 Interchange (Long-term Priority)
"The recently constructed Highway 99 and Highway 17 Interchange has the capability to
be enhanced to allow for all directional movements. Delta supports the construction
of the additional on-ramps in conjunction with the George Massey Tunnel Replacement Project."

No surprise here... yes, lets open a new 4-lane expressway and have the connection to the major 6-lane bridge be a single, unsignaled left turn lane that has to wait for a break in heavy traffic coming. I'm surprised there hasn't been a major accident here yet involving a semi that tried to 'sneak through a gap.' This is TOP priority... even over any of the interchanges.

Otherwise, Good on 'em. Yeah, Mayor Lois Jackson is very adament on getting these projects built, and will no doubt pressure the Province as much as possible. Hopefully they can spin a good case for the SFPR / 91 interchanges as 'nationally significant' so they can access Building Canada Funding.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by Mininari

No surprise here... yes, lets open a new 4-lane expressway and have the connection to the major 6-lane bridge be a single, unsignaled left turn lane that has to wait for a break in heavy traffic coming. I'm surprised there hasn't been a major accident here yet involving a semi that tried to 'sneak through a gap.' This is TOP priority... even over any of the interchanges.

Otherwise, Good on 'em. Yeah, Mayor Lois Jackson is very adament on getting these projects built, and will no doubt pressure the Province as much as possible. Hopefully they can spin a good case for the SFPR / 91 interchanges as 'nationally significant' so they can access Building Canada Funding.

I'm somewhat surprised that they submitted these recommendations before the baton hand off of new council.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by SOSS

I'm somewhat surprised that they submitted these recommendations before the baton hand off of new council.

Good point. I am not familiar with the make-up of the new Delta Council versus the previous one, but there are number of possibilties, but it could simply be the Province set a deadline for municipal input that we don't know about. OR, no deviation was expected in the list of priorities (the various projects identified are all must-haves for Delta I would think).

There are definitely some hints coming out that the new 10-year transportation plan may be heavily weighted towards highway improvements. I expect that any project the Province can bill as 'Nationally significant' or 'Asia Pacific Gateway' related will get partner funding from the feds, and go ahead asap. The general theme seems to be to increase Port Metro Vancouver's outgoing resource shipping capacity in their Fraser River Facilities. Hence, this could all lead to a package of interchange improvements along the SFPR to compliment the GMT removal and new bridge (maximizing navigability of the channel), and increased volume of resource exports going to the port by truck. Rail improvements have quietly already been happening with the Roberts Bank Rail Corridor Overpass projects.

I don't think the SFPR will suffer the same fate as Hwy 91... not with our aligned right-wing, develop-a-resource-export-economy governments in charge.

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by Mininari

I don't think the SFPR will suffer the same fate as Hwy 91... not with our aligned right-wing, develop-a-resource-export-economy governments in charge.

Interestingly, Hwy 91 was also built while the provincial and federal governments were right wing. More interestingly, iirc, the highway was upgraded with at least one interchange within a year or two of being built.
I wonder if that'll happen with the SFPR.


Regardless of who's in power, and regardless of the purpose of the infrastructure is, I don't think there is ever an excuse not to upgrade it if it is substandard.

[jlenko]

Those 'bumps' around 138th street (due to the constant settling, one above the gas line, the other from the drainage pipe) are getting really bad again.

What a piss-poor job of pre-loading that area. And the repairs are horrid! As seen on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/tranbc/status/538479389504069632

[Metro-One]

They say its caused by a sewage main, but yeah, that part is ridiculous.

[VanCvl]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

They say its caused by a sewage main, but yeah, that part is ridiculous.

The bump is from a sanitary manhole. They couldn't put additional preload because there is an adjacent Kinder Morgan line that could not withstand any deflection/movement caused from the preload settlement. There are no easy solutions other than repair until the ground equalizes.

[Metro-One]

Interesting. Hmm, I wonder if in the long run they could build a short elevated section there? That is if a single span would we wide enough so that the pile driving wouldnt cause the same problem.