South Fraser Perimeter Road/Highway 17 Extension | Completed

[libtard]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Oh beans, not again!

We've bean down this road before

[makr3trkr]

https://twitter.com/OfficeGuru247/status/512615758204256256/

@news1130traffic truck cut in half at SFPR & 80TH

[red-paladin]

[Metro-One]

Again, are people just trolling this highway now reporting every possible accident, or is its rate really that much higher than any other 40 km stretch of highway?

I really want to know this, because it is starting to feel like a mix of the two (for example, when the media gets one juicy story about a particular type of crime and then suddenly for the next year they report that same crime every time it happens, making it seem like a crime wave, when indeed it is simply because the rate of reporting it went up, not the crime itself).

At SFU I did do GIS related reports on traffic accidents in metro Vancouver, wish I had access to that data still for comparison.

Again, the intersections should all be interchanges, but the road itself is decent and any accident not around the signalized intersections is the fault of drivers.

If people are so concerned, they should be sending constructive letter to the MoT.

The 91 connector and 80th street are the first two that should be upgraded. If done, that would make it full freeway from the old 17 to the 91. After that when the new Patullo is built the full freeway aspect would be extended to the Patullo area.

[makr3trkr]

If Highway 99 or 91 had a rash of rollovers, there would be the same amount of news coverage.

The reality is those highways have 4-5 times the volume and pale in comparison to the relative number of rollovers, simply because they are straighter and have interchanges.

I think the worry is that eventually a truck is going to roll over and kill somebody.

MoT will amost always respond that it's not in the budget if a fix is more than a few thousand dollars.

[Klazu]

Cannot be far until the first death on this highway will occur. I would be careful nearby trucks when driving those few tight bends and intersections!

[Metro-One]

Can you give me the roll over data for the 99 and 91?

Again, you missed my point on possible biased reporting. I remember seeing several roll overs on the Marry Hill that never made the news...

At the 240th and Lougheed intersection I personally saw 4 roll overs at the same spot. Again, no big news coverage.

All expressways here in Japan have similar design standards as the SFPR in alignment (and they are all posted at 80km speeds, but cars usually travel at 100 or 110 while trucks stick to the fucking speed limit!), and I have yet to see a roll over.

Yes the intersections should be interchanges ( have thought this from the beginning), but any roll overs outside of those sections are the fault of truck drivers. If a truck is traveling at 80km and hour or even 90 km and hour they would have to go out of their way to rollover. it is obvious that these people are driving recklessly.

To me, this highlights how arrogant many of our area's truck driver's are.

[makr3trkr]

No argument that it is largely the fault of the truck drivers.

But I see no reason for extreme bias in reporting.

99 has 5 times the volume and simply doesn't have 5x the rollovers.

There are probably other rollover incidents on SFPR that didn't receive coverage, as well.

I think the temporary solution is more focused enforcement aimed at truck drivers.

[cornholio]

Well I said this a long time ago while the highway was still under construction and I will say it again, this highway is poorly designed and incredibly underbuilt. It is something you would expect in a third world country not here. The highway 1 expansion is also an embarrassment with a surface that is already warping (due to poor layering), especially in the Burnaby stretch and several dangerous value engineered design changes. But highway 17 takes the cake, I don't understand how they could build it like this. The curves are too tight, sight lines are poor, banking is poor, intersections are downright dangerous, the surface is cheap and already warping, its embarrassing, really we should be embarrassed. No one should be surprised by all the accidents, same stuff happens in third world countries with poorly designed roads and highways. People die, and people will die on this highway because of its half assed design. /rant.

*yes I have driven this highway, and yes I thought this was going to be the outcome when I saw the final designs.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Can you give me the roll over data for the 99 and 91?

Again, you missed my point on possible biased reporting. I remember seeing several roll overs on the Marry Hill that never made the news...

At the 240th and Lougheed intersection I personally saw 4 roll overs at the same spot. Again, no big news coverage.

All expressways here in Japan have similar design standards as the SFPR in alignment (and they are all posted at 80km speeds, but cars usually travel at 100 or 110 while trucks stick to the fucking speed limit!), and I have yet to see a roll over.

Yes the intersections should be interchanges ( have thought this from the beginning), but any roll overs outside of those sections are the fault of truck drivers. If a truck is traveling at 80km and hour or even 90 km and hour they would have to go out of their way to rollover. it is obvious that these people are driving recklessly.

To me, this highlights how arrogant many of our area's truck driver's are.

I don't have any statistics to back up my evidence but I drove 99/91 for 13 years to and from work every work day (minus holidays of course) and at most I can remember maybe 5 roll overs in those 13 year period. Most happened either when trucks were heading South onto the former HWY 17 now 17A and would take the off ramp too quick, or at the 99/91 interchange going around the tight bend too quick.

SFPR isn't even 1 year old though and is well over 5 roll overs, probably closer to 10 now already. So in 13 years we're on pace for over 130 roll over accidents alone... like I said even if you quadruple my recollection on HWY99/91 you're at 20 in the same span.

It's unfortunately a lot of variables and interchanges may not entirely solve the issue. It would solve the issue of roll overs at the Hwy91 connector intersection, but not those when you're in South Delta and they go rip-roaring around tight corners @ 100+kph. That's just bad driving.

I almost was rammed from behind just last week by a semi near Tilbury. The light turned red and I was 5 cars behind the first car that stopped at the light. I then looked in my rear view and a semi was just cooking towards me. I was like "HOLY F**K" and the only place I could go was to nudge a bit to to the right closer to the car next to me. He slammed on the brakes and veered over into the left turn lane stopping at my driver's side window...

I count my lucky stars but wtf was he 1) doing smoking along in the left fast lane and 2) wtf wasn't he clearly paying attention. He was moving quick too so easily could have taken a corner in the next section and flipped.

As I've said a few times, part of it is design faults that could have been fixed had the highway been built right to start, but a large part is also shit drivers. The Police just really need to sit on SFPR every day all day for a good month or two and nail every single truck driver driving 110kph in the fast lane ripping to the next delivery. Then once they're pulled over for speeding and reckless driving, have the CVSE guys show up to give the truck a nice full inspection which I am sure they'll fail.

Month of that and you'll see a lot of this stuff reduce to a non-factor.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Well I said this a long time ago while the highway was still under construction and I will say it again, this highway is poorly designed and incredibly underbuilt. It is something you would expect in a third world country not here.

AGREED
only need a couple of burros by the road to complete the effect.

[Metro-One]

Sorry, but it is these types of bullshit over exaggerated comparisons that drive me nuts about this forum. Has anyone here every actually been to a third world nation? I have, and yes, I drove in those places as well.

Its the same lazy bullshit writing as people comparing every politician they don't like to Hitler.

Besides the intersections the SFPR is first world standard for its designed speed.

Thank you jhausner for actually having an intellectual and realistic point of view.

So a controlled access expressway with 80km H speed limits, using centre and side barriers, viaducts, quite asphalt near neighborhoods, split grade sections along hillsides, retaining walls, etc... are third world standards???

Things have really picked up around the world!

The SFPR is not perfect and the intersections should all be interchanges, but I am sure I can pick apart any other road I choose as much as this one has been and can then say it is third world standard.

Last time I drove in the prairies the quality of the pavement was pretty third world standard to me, all bumpy and patched with tar along the freeways. Poorly painted lane markings worn away due to winter, almost no road cat eyes, shoulders that just crumbled away into a patchwork of gravel, dirt, and grass, etc...

See how easy that is??? Must be the third world!

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by jhausner

As I've said a few times, part of it is design faults that could have been fixed had the highway been built right to start, but a large part is also shit drivers. The Police just really need to sit on SFPR every day all day for a good month or two and nail every single truck driver driving 110kph in the fast lane ripping to the next delivery. Then once they're pulled over for speeding and reckless driving, have the CVSE guys show up to give the truck a nice full inspection which I am sure they'll fail.

Month of that and you'll see a lot of this stuff reduce to a non-factor.

Fully agree, there needs to be more police present on that road. It is downright terrifying to drive on that road sometimes. I'm doing 100, and I'll usually get trucks tailgating my ass. To me, it's a combination of not only poor engineering, but very aggressive truck drivers that are speeding or clogging up passing lanes.

It is not a "third-world road" but a road that was not built to be a freeway.

[jlousa]

I touched on this point earlier and still think it has vailidity. The fact that other routes have X times as much traffic would lead to less rollovers not more. The more traffic the less the speeds involved and the less likely a truck would roll over. If this road was congested we would see the number of rollovers decrease not increase.

[FCE]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

http://globalnews.ca/news/1551207/truck-full-of-beans-loses-load-on-highway-17-in-surrey/
September 8, 2014 1:54 pm
By Peter Meiszner Global News

What are the chances. That's one of the trucks from my brother's company. I remember the family telling me about this crash, and then I stumble upon this several weeks later. Geez.

[tybuilding]

Roll over solution:

Photo radar stations at the corners. Cheese!

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Well I said this a long time ago while the highway was still under construction and I will say it again, this highway is poorly designed and incredibly underbuilt. It is something you would expect in a third world country not here. The highway 1 expansion is also an embarrassment with a surface that is already warping (due to poor layering), especially in the Burnaby stretch and several dangerous value engineered design changes. But highway 17 takes the cake, I don't understand how they could build it like this. The curves are too tight, sight lines are poor, banking is poor, intersections are downright dangerous, the surface is cheap and already warping, its embarrassing, really we should be embarrassed. No one should be surprised by all the accidents, same stuff happens in third world countries with poorly designed roads and highways. People die, and people will die on this highway because of its half assed design. /rant.

*yes I have driven this highway, and yes I thought this was going to be the outcome when I saw the final designs.

Almost all highway projects in the last 6 years have been cut as the planned 3P never worked out. The ministry inherited highway 1 after the 3P partnership lost it financing so other projects all had to tighten there belts. Parts of the highway 1 were deleted to save money. If I remember correctly the north fraser perimeter road was supposed to start. This would tie new west coquitlam together and deal queensborough to the port mann. This was cancelled completely.

The highway 1 project has been so value engineered that some of the concrete placed never reached the 28 day strength. Parts of the Burnaby stretch were never repaired just repaved. THe whole area is in the bog. So in time the new areas will settle at different rates. Several of the approaches have been redone. Is this early failure or poor design or workmanship.

[red-paladin]

NFPR was cancelled not because of finances, but because New West had a hissyfit and fought it tooth and nail.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

NFPR was cancelled not because of finances, but because New West had a hissyfit and fought it tooth and nail.

You'd think that with the savings of NOT having to fund the NFPR, they could have built the SFPR properly -- or maybe at least designed to acknowledge that the average driver (trucks included) goes about 20 over the limit just about everywhere in the GVRD.

[officedweller]

Most of NFPR was a TransLink project (except Pitt River Bridge area), not the Province, which built SFPR.